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  1. #781

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker V

    Quote Originally Posted by ICe101 View Post
    Bathrooms were open Friday. I saw them for myself, and they were purty.
    Disney bathrooms always are. I just love how clean they are.

  2. #782

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker V

    TECH STUFF! WHEE!!! (or tech stuff! boo!!! for some of you)

    I went on Friday and got some more pictures. Finally there's some action on the main platform.

    You can click on all of these for the full size shots. Oh, and some of these images are a little noisy. Sorry. I took some when it was getting a bit dark so I had to up the ISO a lot.

    First off, here's some decent pictures of the vertical jets.







    If you're paying attention, you can see some other new hardware visible on the deck. Let's get to them later and do the jets first.

    Take a look at this picture of the Bellagio show during the daytime. You can see some things sticking up out of the water but those aren't firing. The vertical jets in back are firing and it looks like their tops are either a little above or a little below water level. It looks like the rightmost ones are a little above the water's surface but the jets to their left are a little below the surface. It looks like the vertical jets can fire from somewhat below the water's surface. If you think about it that makes sense. They have pretty good control of the level of the water but not down to the fraction of an inch. After all, their will be some small waves during the show. And given the pressure they're running at they should be able to shoot through a little water and still get a decent jet. So they may be able to position the WOC platform in the submerged position sitting on the posts where's it's fully supported and then operate the vertical jets without moving anything or lowering the water level. They'd just fire through and inch or two of water. It least that seems possible looking at this picture.

    There's a NYTime article which talks a little about the Bellagio fountain which is apparently made by the same company as WOC: WET Design. You can see a picture of the top of one of their jets towards the right on this page on WET design's site. That sure looks like one of our vertical jets. There's also an article in a CNC machining magazine which shows a good picture of one of their aimable jets. That might be what's sticking out of the water in the daytime Bellagio picture. That NYTimes article is not very technical but it does mention that their show is mainly air-powered. It could be that their jets are just hooked to air motor powered pumps or it may mean that each vertical jet is individually air-powered. Looking at that Bellagio picture it's clear that each jet can be individually turned on and off. Those jets might be individually air powered rather than hooked in gangs to some high pressure water pump. This article on WET's site keeps talking about various air-powered jets so that may be what we've got. I haven't found a real technical description of these things yet (okay, I haven't tried that hard) so it's hard to be sure our jets are air-powered.

    In the third picture you can see a couple of jets with the nozzles installed. That picture of the top of a jet on WET's website shows that same three-sided top that are on our jets along with a spherical shape cut into the head. It looks like the jet nozzles have spherical bottoms which fit into the top of the jet head and have three bolts which can be tightened to do fine aiming of the jet.





    You can see that they've unpacked some new equipment. Oboy!


    Our Grundfos hardware has finally come out to play. For reference, the Grundfos 475S300-4AB PE 6"MTR 6"NPT 60 pump PDF is here and the Grundfos MS 6000 30 HP submersible motor PDF is here.



    In this picture you can see one of our five port manifold thingies. Just to its right is the pump. Then at the back of the pump is an adapter which connects the pump to the manifold. Then to their right is a motor with an inlet mesh in front of it.


    Some parts from another angle.


    This is what the manifold, adapter, and pump look like when assembled. It looks like the black thing on one end of the five port manifold is a plastic cap. The cap is probably on there to protect the threads. This picture shows the adapter between the manifold and the pump screwed on. It looks like they used Teflon glop to seal it like you use for plumbing. Then one end of the pump screws onto the end of the adapter. Then the inlet mesh thing goes over the right end of the pump to filter the incoming water.


    You can see an assembled one from another angle here. You can also see a pump to the right with the inlet mesh installed. None of them have the motor installed yet. It plugs into the inlet mesh end of the pump. You can see that in the pump PDF. It's really a well pump so it's designed so it's a long cylinder when assembled.


    The first thing worth noting is that these pumps draw their water from the bay - not from some other water supply like the giant black pipe. I always wondered about that. The bay water may not exactly be pristine but if they filter it then it should be pretty clean. After all, they used to swim the half marathon through it. It can't be that bad. Okay - there's ducks pooping in it. But Southern California's drinking water isn't exactly pristine either. If they use a water supply to bring extra water in from the outside for the show then they're also going to have to get rid of it after the show. What are the odds that the show just uses exactly the amount which evaporates in the time between shows. It just seems like the most sensible approach is to use bay water and only add water when needed because of evaporation. After all, water costs money. Why would they use an external water supply if they don't have to? I think you can see mesh filters on the inputs to the jets (maybe not in these pictures). And these Grundfos pumps are going to pull their water from the bay. If the vertical jets are air-powered (a definite possibility) then the big black pipe may be the air supply rather than a water supply.



    And look at the flimsy braces holding up the giant black pipe. Okay. I took physics in college more that 30 years ago. But I got A's. And if that much water takes a high speed turn through one of those elbows then it exerts a serious force. At least I think so. It was 30 years ago. That pipe would have to be seriously braced against that force if lots of water is moving through it. But it isn't. I don't know anything about pneumatics but that thing looks like an air supply to me. Not a water supply. And it may be large to power both the BoatFloaters and air-powered vertical jets. Maybe those pumps provide the water for the vertical jets and maybe they don't. I'd sure like to see what they hook to those five manifold outputs. I haven't gone to the trouble of trying to count manifold outputs but if they don't match the number of jets then I'd think those jets are air-powered. In any case, I think the show water comes from the bay and the black pipe is an air supply.


    By the way, the rest of the pictures can be found here.
    Last edited by Macro; 05-17-2009 at 03:26 PM.

  3. #783

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker V

    ^^ Awesome, awesome pictures. World of Color is going to be amazing.

  4. #784

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker V

    ^^^ Excellent photos and description!

    As for the big black pipes, why would they need to pump air in? Wouldn't you just have compressors right where the air is needed? Or is that going to be a noise issue? Finally, I think compressed air is pumped in much smaller tubing, I can't imagine having those 12" (18"?) diameter tubes being used for air. But then I gave up mechanical engineering for programming a loooong time ago!

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker V

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojave View Post
    As for the big black pipes, why would they need to pump air in? Wouldn't you just have compressors right where the air is needed? Or is that going to be a noise issue? Finally, I think compressed air is pumped in much smaller tubing, I can't imagine having those 12" (18"?) diameter tubes being used for air. But then I gave up mechanical engineering for programming a loooong time ago!
    Yea. My brother has a machine shop and his air pipes are really small. But then he's not powering that many machines. If I remember correctly they measure compressors at PSI and cubic feet/minute. If they're really powering lots of stuff with air pressure then that pipe could end up immense.

    In the Bellagio article they mentioned that the compressors were so noisy you had to wear hearing protection. They also kept their compressors away from the show. That might be the case here. And I think Disneyland actually uses a shared air supply distributed throughout the park which powers lots of different things. Of course, this might be a bit more air then they're used to delivering and the show could have its own compressors.

  6. #786

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker V

    Quote Originally Posted by Macro View Post
    It looks like the rightmost ones are a little above the water's surface but the jets to their left are a little below the surface. It looks like the vertical jets can fire from somewhat below the water's surface.
    The moving jets are usually above the surface, and I'm sure there is some other categories based on what they do. But a mix of under and over water outlets is certainly in play.

    Just look at any public fountain near you.. they run the fountain heads under the surface. The difference comes in I think when it comes down to the level of control and what type of flow you want the jet to have.

    If you haven't seen the Belliago show live.. what it and listen for all the 'bangs' during the show. Those are the air powered canons. Most of those vertical upshots are simply one high pressure air release pushing up the water sitting in the jet. It's one shot - not water pump feeding that. But of course there is a mix of fountains and just water canons in the show.

    So, yes, there are high pressure air canons used in conjunction with traditional 'fountains'. The really high shooting ones are air powered (and one of WET's big contributions to the field)

    Quote Originally Posted by Macro View Post
    They'd just fire through and inch or two of water. It least that seems possible looking at this picture.
    With the jets we see here, if they have pumps taking their inlet right from the lagoon, they're probably just straight fountains which could fire from below the surface. But I think we'll see lots of other types that may be above it yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Macro View Post
    The first thing worth noting is that these pumps draw their water from the bay - not from some other water supply like the giant black pipe
    The amount of flow needed would be way more then that pipe could supply. Remember, water is very hard to compress, so you its very hard to increase the volume of flow through a fixed space.. all you can do is make it flow faster which requires bigger, more powerful pumps.

    The show will have to run off the lagoon, and Disney will have to simply work better on treating the water. Who knows.. the black boxes could very well be part of that system, but I doubt it simply because servicing them would be difficult. And anyone who has owned or operated pool systems knows treatment systems are high upkeep.

    They will have to add a good bit of water all the time.. just to keep up with the Cali sun I'm sure they do, but vaporizing large volumes of it all the time will heavily add to the amount lost to evaporation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Macro View Post
    And look at the flimsy braces holding up the giant black pipe. Okay. I took physics in college more that 30 years ago. But I got A's. And if that much water takes a high speed turn through one of those elbows then it exerts a serious force. That pipe would have to be seriously braced against that force if lots of water is moving through it
    I'm convinced the pipe is the gas feed. It's not large enough for jet water, and I'm going to speculate it's too long and supporting way too much to be an air feed.

    The reason I think it's pressurized air or gas is due to the fittings we saw on it earlier. Not being familar with how they do the air supply for their cannons, I can't say for sure.. but the problem you have with such systems is the rapid loss of pressure when you blow off those jets and how to quickly get it back to your ready pressure. The more frequently you do that.. the harder it is to ensure you have full pressure when you are ready to fire. If you were to consolidate all the jets onto ONE feed.. it would be insanely hard to ensure you maintain pressure in that line. And such a line would typically be a thick heavy metal structure.. and here we have what appears to be more of a plastic/composite.

    Having said that.. I think it's the Natural Gas feed (Mirage uses Natural Gas.. not sure what Disney uses in fantasmic?).

    I'm dying to see that Modern Marvels episode on Water again.. they did a long indepth portion of the show on WET and the infrastructure used at the Bellagio.

    It is interesting to note we have yet to see any real long-hauls to off-stage anywhere yet except for this lone pipe.

    Also of note is... the original Bellagio show was estimated to cost $75 million. The upgrade to the Mirage cost $25 million alone. How much is Disney spending on WoC? It's gotta be $150-$200million I bet.
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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker V

    Another aspect of managing the water level of the lagoon is the new wall that was constructed at the ramp leading out of the lagoon. Maybe somebody here has a picture of it but it appears to have very specific overflow levels likely to maintain a precisely accurate water level at all times. Think of the overflow for a pool but on steroids. Prior to WoC they probably weren't too concerned about keeping the water level exactly consistent.
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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker V

    Quote Originally Posted by goofypirate View Post
    Another aspect of managing the water level of the lagoon is the new wall that was constructed at the ramp leading out of the lagoon. Maybe somebody here has a picture of it but it appears to have very specific overflow levels likely to maintain a precisely accurate water level at all times. Think of the overflow for a pool but on steroids. Prior to WoC they probably weren't too concerned about keeping the water level exactly consistent.
    It is also possible that the new structure could be a new wave machine, as they removed the old one.

  9. #789

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker V

    Macro, thanks for the awesome pictures.
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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker V

    Marco=Amazingness

    Totally loved your update. Very technical...i like that


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  11. #791

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker V

    Quote Originally Posted by Macro View Post
    And look at the flimsy braces holding up the giant black pipe. Okay. I took physics in college more that 30 years ago. But I got A's. And if that much water takes a high speed turn through one of those elbows then it exerts a serious force. At least I think so. It was 30 years ago. That pipe would have to be seriously braced against that force if lots of water is moving through it.
    GREAT pics and an incredible analysis. You do a great job and I always look forward to your posts.

    I'm not so certain this will be for delivering water to the show (one of darkbeer's photos from a while ago showed a pipe underground out in the lagoon. I'll have to try to dig it up and see what that looks like.

    However, these black pipes will be braced since they will be attached physically to the row of support stuff in front of the pipe. This connection will hold them stable and the braces underneath need only support the weight.

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker V

    Great update!

    from the looks of everything... How do they know where to place everything?


  13. #793

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker V

    Quote Originally Posted by Kritter View Post
    Great update!

    from the looks of everything... How do they know where to place everything?
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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker V

    I hope when they rebuild it, they extend the SF facades on the old side to extend all the way out to the rotunda. That would be amazing looking and feel more immersive.
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  15. #795

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker V

    a while back someone posted a link to a water show vide that looked similar to what World of Color will be. It was from a European park I believe? anybody know where I can find the link to that? thanks


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