Help me solve an Indy puzzle!

[Datameister]

The retaining wall issue is an interesting one. The presence of a retaining wall in that spot predates Indy, of course - same shape and everything. Take a look near the top right corner of this area of a 60s blueprint:



Apparently, things were a little different back when they were building Pirates, though. There was already a retaining wall there, but it was shaped a little differently.



You can also see part of it in the background of this shot.



Note that the parts that were further south appeared to be made of concrete, and the parts that were further north appeared to be made of wood. Oddly enough, the Indy construction photos also show concrete to the south and wood to the north. Maybe they just left it that way, and perhaps poured in the concrete against the wood, as you suggested, Bruce.

[dl_appurtenant]

You and your brain make a great team. You (and it) are awesome.

[Mojave]

Originally Posted by Datameister

Apparently, things were a little different back when they were building Pirates, though. There was already a retaining wall there, but it was shaped a little differently.

That retaining wall looks as new as POTC, so it was probably built specifically for that. There was nothing there to retain before Pirates, except the old Indian Village and Plantation house. That's probably what you meant.

Originally Posted by Datameister

Maybe they just left it that way, and perhaps poured in the concrete against the wood, as you suggested, Bruce.

Hey now, I suggested that too!

[Datameister]

Sorry, that's right, he wasn't the only one. And you're right about the retaining wall's age...I'm not sure what I was thinking. There couldn't have been one there before Pirates. The question then becomes...why does the blueprint indicate a different shape than what we see in the POTC construction photos? Did they really replace or change it so soon after the ride was built?

[BurtGummer]

So let me make sure I understand you.

You are saying that you think that both the entrance and exit paths go through that same concrete archway, rather then only the exit?

Or, you are wondering if it is "underground"? That would seem obvious though, it isn't. The retaining wall holds up the dirt that acts as a backdrop for jungle. If you consider that as underground, then sure.

I don't know if I get what you're wanting to get at though, haha.

[Datameister]

Originally Posted by BurtGummer

You are saying that you think that both the entrance and exit paths go through that same concrete archway, rather then only the exit?

Well, the area in question is just a very small part of the queue and exit - it's the part of the queue between the temple entrance and the obelisk chamber, and the part of the exit that looks like the very last cave before you're outside again. Those two are apparently housed in that same concrete archway, rather than in a long building with a rectangular cross-section, as most of the queue is. The only other part that's in a concrete tunnel like that is the part that goes beneath the berm. The photos appear to show bamboo growing on top of the area in question, suggesting that they piled the berm on top of that spot.

Or, you are wondering if it is "underground"? That would seem obvious though, it isn't. The retaining wall holds up the dirt that acts as a backdrop for jungle. If you consider that as underground, then sure.

That's true for most of the queue, as seen in my render, and for the longest time, I thought that was the case with the area in question, too. But all the evidence seems to point to the berm being piled up over this small area, like in the render.

I don't know if I get what you're wanting to get at though, haha.[/quote]

[Uncle Bob]

I wonder if that berm was still partially retained for the chicken plantation or whatever the building that was there before was called. You might have to look at an early ariel photo and see if you can tell exactly where that building ended and if there was always a retaining wall there.

[Datameister]

I'm looking at the 1955 and 1960 aerial photos of the park from Yesterland, and it looks to me like the berm just spilled right on over. Besides, the Jungle Cruise river used to flow through there anyway. Also, the 1955 model featured in the 50th anniversary exhibit doesn't show any retaining walls, though details like that might have been omitted.

On a side note...my goodness, the 1955 approach to Disneyland was different from the 2001 approach to DCA.

[Mojave]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

I wonder if that berm was still partially retained for the chicken plantation or whatever the building that was there before was called. You might have to look at an early ariel photo and see if you can tell exactly where that building ended and if there was always a retaining wall there.

I believe it was the original Indian Village that backed up against the Jungle Cruise. The Plantation House was across the pathway to the northwest a bit.

[Mojave]

Originally Posted by Datameister

I'm looking at the 1955 and 1960 aerial photos of the park from Yesterland, and it looks to me like the berm just spilled right on over. Besides, the Jungle Cruise river used to flow through there anyway. Also, the 1955 model featured in the 50th anniversary exhibit doesn't show any retaining walls, though details like that might have been omitted.

On a side note...my goodness, the 1955 approach to Disneyland was different from the 2001 approach to DCA.

I don't know how useful the following photos are (you've probably seen them and you have to squint )

The first shows a curved berm hiding the Plantation House from the Jungle Cruise guests. (from davelandweb)



The second shows a super closeup of the Pirates construction near JC. (don't have a credit)

Any idea what those black dots with light circles around them are? Are they just shadows of palm trees?

[Datameister]

Whoa! That second shot is new to me. Is that part of a larger image?

And yeah, as far as I can tell in the other shot, there's no retaining wall, but it's hard to tell. Probably just a rounded berm.

[Uncle Bob]

The black dots with the light area around it look like holes in the ground to me.

[Uncle Bob]

Actually, those are probably is the holes for the footings of the vertical steel supports of the retaining wall. It looks like they're in the right line. Pretty amazing that we can discern so much info from 40+ years ago.

[Datameister]

Those holes are really weird. Not sure. Perhaps they are indeed for the new retaining wall.

[Mojave]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

The black dots with the light area around it look like holes in the ground to me.

I can see three of them in a row. I was thinking they could be holes, but the middle one looks like it could be a shadow of a palm tree, there's a trunk shadow as well. However, I think the angle of other shadows debunks it being a tree.

40+ years - this is what makes detective work fun!