Help me solve an Indy puzzle!

[Datameister]

Howdy, folks! So, for those of you who don't know, I've got this little project that I started a couple years back - a 3D scale model of Disneyland in my computer, including backstage areas and everything. There are links in my sig if you're not familiar with the project. Anyway, because my real-world access to backstage has been limited, there are a lot of...puzzles that come up. Some areas are pretty straightforward, but others require a lot of analyzing and synthesizing information from various sources. Anyway, I've run into one of those areas, and I'd like your help. Yes, you!

So, the queue for Indiana Jones is mostly located above ground level, not underground. If you could look at it from above without trees in the way, most of it would be visible as flat, unthemed rooftops. I've known for some time that the bat caves, spike room, and hall of descending blocks comprise a significant exception - these are located in a tunnel that goes beneath the berm. This is what it looked like while they were building it:



Notice the arch-like shape and concrete construction? Most of the queue isn't shaped like that - it just has a simple rectangular cross-section above ground. I've known about that for a while. What I didn't know is that there's actually another part of the queue that's housed in a similar concrete arch. You can see it in this photo, to the right of the center:



And here we are looking through the tunnel, toward construction on the Jungle Cruise river:



That contains the tunnel between the visible temple entrance and the obelisk chamber, as well as the very end of the indoor exit path. I always assumed that part just had a flat roof like most of the queue, based on what I'd seen and heard. But it seems a little suspicious that it would have that same concrete arch enclosure, doesn't it? So I got to thinking...what if that spot has soil on top of it, too? What if I've been wrong all this time?

So I did a little more research. Here's a construction photo from a very similar angle, but taken a little later in 1994.



Notice that the arch now has a short concrete retaining wall above it, just like the other arch. And what's that on the other side? New shoots of bamboo growing on top of the arch area. Don't you think? There's bamboo in the first shot, but it's not the same bamboo. That bamboo was further back.

Sure enough, I looked back at a few of my own photos. Here's the right side of the temple entrance as we look at the front of it - it's hard to see, but you can see the bamboo in the back, up on top of that area.



And here's a shot around the back/left side of the temple, with the bamboo again visible up above.



And looking further to the left, we see the exit cave, with the bamboo up above there, too.



At this point, you may be wondering...WHAT'S MY PUZZLE? Well...it seems pretty evident to me that this area of the queue/exit does not just have an exposed flat roof. What is not so obvious is what is up there under the bamboo. Let's take another up-close look at that construction photo, slightly sharpened.



Does that look like dirt up there to you? It doesn't to me. It has a...boxy sort of quality to it. It's hard for me to tell what I'm looking at. So I guess the heart of what I'm asking is...what do you see in that photo?

Just for further reference, in case you're confused about the layout, this (slightly dissected) screenshot of my incomplete model might help.



Thank you for taking the time to read this overly long post! Any insight or guesswork or feedback you can provide would be welcome.

(Construction photos are from this page and this Flickr photostream. )

[Bruce Bergman]

The boxy shapes over the tunnel in the last shot? Simple enough, it's the wooden nursery crates that the bamboo seedlings were planted in 2 to 5 years earlier. Note the slight diamond shaped taper so the contents will pull out.

If they had Jungle back open after they finished the outside part of the Indy queue (and I believe they did...) they would need a visual screen to block the rest of the construction. Some nice 20' tall bamboo is just the ticket, and when it's in the crate they can drop it in place with a crane.

And it either goes away when they are finished with the work, or they dismantle the crate and it gets planted permanently.

The thing I'm wondering about, the steel beam and wood plank temporary retaining wall holding up the dirt of the Jungle Cruise berm there - did they build a permanent concrete retaining wall?

If they didn't, when those timbers rot out in ~40 years they'll have a lot of fun with the open side of the Indy queue wall falling apart.

--<< Bruce >>--

[SnorkletsMom]

I see the nursery crates, but also maybe something boxy behind them. I'm not sure which is Data's mystery, though.
I love the project you're doing, Data. It totally fascinates me. Great job!

[Datameister]

Thank you so much, Bruce! That totally makes sense. So I guess that area of the queue really does go "underground" in a way, although it still stays above the ground level of the adjacent areas. Very interesting!

As for the wooden retaining wall...I'd been wondering that, too. You can see a concrete one on the left side of the first photo - that's actually on the same side of the queue as the wooden retaining wall, so it's entirely possible that they really did replace all of it. Perhaps even probable. At the very least, they would have needed to add some height to the existing wall - notice the beams on top of the retaining wall in the later construction photo? Those go up to the height of the top of that area of the queue, and the whole side needed to be covered with berm. Which then raises the question...did they really redefine that Jungle Cruise berm to go that much higher, and if so, how?

[leslie_537]

I also see nursery crates ( I never knew they were called that)

[Bruce Bergman]

There might be a $5 term for them, but not being a nurseryman we'll just call them crates...

--<< Bruce >>--

[Datameister]

Just for fun, here's a render of my model, with the berm newly modified to go over that area. Only took 6 hours to render! Stupid textures and snake colonnade geometry...

[Uncle Bob]

Awesome! Looks very close to me. It doesn't look like they replaced the wood retaining wall to me though. They clearly made progress between the two photos and if they had replaced the wall they would have done so before they started installing that new steel.

[Datameister]

Yeah, that makes sense to me.

[Mojave]

I say nursery crates as well. Nice detective work Data!

Now I'm very intrigued with the problem of the JC berm, the wood retaining wall and the new steel. We know on this side of the berm was the old POTC extended queue, which was a simple rectangular room, part open, part covered. Since Pirates and that queue post-date the berm (at least I'm pretty sure they do), it had to have its own retaining wall that wasn't directly attached to the Pirates queue. Those old boards certainly fit the bill, but what held them in place? That's new steel in the photos, but how did they place the new steel and its concrete foundation while actively maintaining the berm?

Anyway, I wonder if after the steel was in place, they created a concrete wall attached to the steel as the new retaining wall and then simply left the old wood in place. It was no longer needed but too difficult to remove. In fact the old wood could have been used as part of the form for pouring the concrete.

[twobluestripes]

i see the crates too, but perhaps they are not set on a smooth hill, but a tiered or stepped one. they're hardly tilted at all so there might not be a gradient but instead levels where they got planted...

[Datameister]

In the words of Benjamin Linus...I have a few ideas.

But the hour is late. I shall post my thoughts on the retaining wall issue tomorrow, along with a few images that may shed light on the situation...or they may make matters worse.

[Bruce Bergman]

Well, they can leave the creosote timbers in place, leave them as the formwork and build the 'permanent' concrete wall behind them, then pull the steel support beams out - or just cast the steel beams into the concrete wall and leave them, too...

(The exposed steel face of the beams would make a great pad to weld brackets and such)

When the timbers finally rot away in a bunch of years, it won't matter - the dirt on the hill just sinks a bit.

Only problem with that plan is waterproofing, the concrete wall might seep if the soil gets and stays saturated - they didn't have access to the finished outside wall to add a sealing membrane and a footer drain at the base of the wall, and doing it first (put up the barrier and then pour the wall) doesn't always work. But since it isn't an occupied structure, seeping a bit would only add to the charm.

--<< Bruce >>--

[jagass]

this is nice man...thanks for posting this...

[leslie_537]

Originally Posted by Bruce Bergman

There might be a $5 term for them, but not being a nurseryman we'll just call them crates...

--<< Bruce >>--

Ha Ha Ha! I thought your term was the $5 term. I call them planter boxes. :P