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  1. #16

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    Re: Where would you like to see Discovery Bay?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    That is the right answer. I seriously doubt that Disneyland will ever see any major expansion again.

    As for Discovery Bay itself? It's time has come and gone.
    If the definition of "major expansion" is a newly themed land then I agree. However if the definition of "major expansion" is a large themed area that was previously underutilized then I disagree. There have been "plans" for Big Thunder Trail for decades. I would not be shocked if they dust them off at some point, just to increase capacity. Festival of Fools Arena is currently a golden goose for corporate parties, but they now have facilities nearby at the Grand Californian making this location redundant.

    I also don't agree that Discovery Bay's time has come and gone. I don't think it would be built in it's entirety anywhere. But I think it serves as inspiration, and elements of it may be included in future attraction designs.
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  2. #17

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    Re: Where would you like to see Discovery Bay?

    >>Festival of Fools Arena is currently a golden goose for corporate parties, but they now have facilities nearby at the Grand Californian making this location redundant.<<

    Thematically, aren't corporations and "Festival of Fools" a more natural fit with DCA anyway?

  3. #18

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    Re: Where would you like to see Discovery Bay?

    Quote Originally Posted by merlinjones View Post
    >>Festival of Fools Arena is currently a golden goose for corporate parties, but they now have facilities nearby at the Grand Californian making this location redundant.<<

    Thematically, aren't corporations and "Festival of Fools" a more natural fit with DCA anyway?

    Sure sounds like it! DCA has Millionaire building and Hyperion and Hollywood & Dine to play in.


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  4. #19

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    Re: Where would you like to see Discovery Bay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    Sure sounds like it! DCA has Millionaire building and Hyperion and Hollywood & Dine to play in.
    This is not a slam against DCA, but there is something to be said about holding a company party IN Disneyland. I've known companies to be specific, and pay a premium, to have it booked in Disneyland instead of DCA. The Disney Company sees it as an area that they can charge a small fortune to rent out. Personally I'd rather have additional supporting attractions for Frontierland but thus far it hasn't happened. I have read everything (on the boards and in actual memos) from a return of Cascade Peak, to Geyser Mine Shaft, to a return of Mine Train Through Nature's Wonderland (obviously slimmed down)... the point is that area is generating money and some in Disney don't see it as being underutilized no matter what WDI or anyone else says. The same can be said of the corporate offerings in DCA.
    Last edited by techskip; 05-23-2009 at 11:04 AM.
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  5. #20

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    Re: Where would you like to see Discovery Bay?

    Quote Originally Posted by merlinjones View Post
    >>Festival of Fools Arena is currently a golden goose for corporate parties, but they now have facilities nearby at the Grand Californian making this location redundant.<<

    Thematically, aren't corporations and "Festival of Fools" a more natural fit with DCA anyway?
    Thematically, corporations and "Festival of Fools" are a natural fit!

  6. #21

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    Re: Where would you like to see Discovery Bay?

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    If the definition of "major expansion" is a newly themed land then I agree. However if the definition of "major expansion" is a large themed area that was previously underutilized then I disagree. There have been "plans" for Big Thunder Trail for decades.
    Yeah but when Disney looked at the patterns of additions in the last few decades they realized that adding new attractions wasn't necessarily increasing attendance or capacity. When something new gets added, attendance at the current attractions plunges and eventually you have to end up closing something.

    That's why the plans to expand into the Big Thunder Trail area never happened. There were also plans to expand NOS into the area between the Mansion and Pirates and there were plans to expand Critter Country and Toontown and expand into the area between Main Street and Tomorrowland and all of these plans have been around forever, but none really happened (well except maybe toontown).

    Expanding into a new area would almost certainly mean that another area would have to be closed.

  7. #22

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    Re: Where would you like to see Discovery Bay?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Expanding into a new area would almost certainly mean that another area would have to be closed.

    I know I'm opening a can of worms when I say this but: Does this mean Disneyland should have closed when DCA opened??

    Answer: of course not



    I know the corporate mentality is to balance the books and keep operating costs stable, and that was why the Skyway had to close supposedly when Indy opened. Supposedly.

    But how would you explain when Toon Town opened? Did they close another land?

    When Rocket Rods shut down for good, did anything spring up in its place? No.

    Where is the balance?

    I certainly understand why Disneyland won't be getting a full new land as people are already going there.

    And Magic Kingdom's method of shutting a ride down to replace it with something is one reason why I don't visit that resort very often at all.


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  8. #23

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    Re: Where would you like to see Discovery Bay?

    Personally, if I were to bluesky it, I would put it between TL and FL. Others have suggested this as well and even gone as far to make a graphic showing the boundries. Basically, with the removal of Autopia and Subs, TL would exist up to the lagoon and path that goes to TL Station. By the TL it would be joined by the path from Discovery Bay. The lang would basically be a corridoor from the Matterhorn through the Motorboat Cruise and leading to the Autiopa queue. The land would adopt the Matterhorn and the area up till the parade route, and the official entry point would be the unthemed walkway between Buzz and the Matterhorn.

    Personally, I think it would be a nice transition. Tommorowland, then a fantastical steam punk blend of technology and fantasy, and then Fantasyland itself.
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  9. #24

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    Re: Where would you like to see Discovery Bay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Professortango View Post
    Personally, if I were to bluesky it, I would put it between TL and FL. Others have suggested this as well and even gone as far to make a graphic showing the boundries. Basically, with the removal of Autopia and Subs, TL would exist up to the lagoon and path that goes to TL Station. By the TL it would be joined by the path from Discovery Bay. The lang would basically be a corridoor from the Matterhorn through the Motorboat Cruise and leading to the Autiopa queue. The land would adopt the Matterhorn and the area up till the parade route, and the official entry point would be the unthemed walkway between Buzz and the Matterhorn.

    Personally, I think it would be a nice transition. Tommorowland, then a fantastical steam punk blend of technology and fantasy, and then Fantasyland itself.


    Here's that visual i made so long ago (although I called it discoveryland). The entrance would be where the parade route went leading up to Pixie Hollow and the Matterhorn.

    In my boundaries, the submarine, monorail, AND autopia would become part of Discoveryland.



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  10. #25

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    Re: Where would you like to see Discovery Bay?

    I have to be honest in saying that I think Disneyland's run it's course when it comes to the development of new lands. I honestly can't see them trying to shoehorn in another land, or taking out multiple attractions to create space for a new land. I can see the potential for developing Festival Arena. I can also see the potential for trying to expand Critter Country. But I just can't see Disney trying to make another land within Disneyland.

    In my opinion Discoveryland can serve as an inspiration for future attractions. It may help DCA, it may even be included in a future park, but I can't see it at Disneyland. Again just personal opinion.
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  11. #26

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    Re: Where would you like to see Discovery Bay?

    And a valued personal opinion it is. Its to bad we have to say that kind of thing after we express what we thing in order to avoid sparking an argument. I do think that there is a whole lot of underdeveloped space in behind the Matterhorn and I could see Atopia being removed and something new being put in that huge area. Furthermore, I don't see why one day the area around the Big Thunder Ranch wouldn't be developed.

    The thing I don't get however is why people constantly clamor for another E Ticket when Disneyland is so famous for the complete opposite. Its the theming, immersivness and creativity that make Disneyland so great, so different from the rest of the world. Never was Disneyland built to provide steady thrills. Heck, many people here have said in other threads that on a busy day they are more then happy to stroll the alleys of the park in awe of its beauty. This is why I hope that something like DB gets added to the park.

    NOS is great, and it could very well be matched. I think that the Big Thunder Ranch would be the best place for Discovery Bay because it is remote, and it connects both to the frontier, which came just before the steam breakthroughs (and during it), and also borders fantasyland. Fantasy has always been the fringe of discovery and development anyway. Furthermore, the water is right there for the bay. I can't see it going in where the Autopia is because of the monorail which zips through that area, as well as the matterhorn dominating the skyline.

  12. #27

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    Re: Where would you like to see Discovery Bay?

    I think it would be cool in DCA. They need to do something with San Francisco, and what with Discovery Bay...

    from several random Googled sites:

    "...having as its roots a "San Francisco of the 1850-1880s,"
    I think it would be a wonderful way to bring together Disney-style fantasy and California history.

    The thing I don't get however is why people constantly clamor for another E Ticket when Disneyland is so famous for the complete opposite. Its the theming, immersivness and creativity that make Disneyland so great, so different from the rest of the world. Never was Disneyland built to provide steady thrills.
    While I agree with the sentiment of what you're saying, and I also would like to see more atmospheric areas like NOS, the reason people clamor for another E-ticket is because it's been so long since DL has gotten one - around 14 years - and there was always a somewhat steady addition of E-tickets prior to that. Furthermore, the C and D tickets added during that time have failed to meet expectations, but that's a whole other thread .
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  13. #28

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    Re: Where would you like to see Discovery Bay?

    I'd like to see it at a third gate or some other park.

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  14. #29

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    Re: Where would you like to see Discovery Bay?

    I am sick of this third park stuff. Third park shouldn't even be considered until 2017 and beyond. There are plenty of things to get done. Besides, when you say "in a third park" it is pointless in less you have an idea of what the third park is about

  15. #30

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    Re: Where would you like to see Discovery Bay?

    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorD View Post
    And a valued personal opinion it is. Its to bad we have to say that kind of thing after we express what we thing in order to avoid sparking an argument.
    I think everyone's opinion holds value, and brings something unique to the table in a discussion. I didn't mean to sound arrogant, I've just found that stating it is an opinion tends to disarm a potential conflict. Thank you for the kind words.

    I do think that there is a whole lot of underdeveloped space in behind the Matterhorn and I could see Autopia being removed and something new being put in that huge area. Furthermore, I don't see why one day the area around the Big Thunder Ranch wouldn't be developed.
    There is some undeveloped space in Disneyland (I am cautious not to say "a lot" because Disneyland is a great deal more crowded then DCA). From my limited understanding a portion of the Autopia sits atop the Subs. The common theory is that it would be cost prohibitive to develop an attraction while providing additional support. Many basically say that Autopia was "made for that area" because of how light it is. I can see Disney removing an attraction to make way for another one. But I can't see them taking out multiple attractions to make a new land. TL98 was a logistical nightmare for crowds, and that was a retheme on an exsisting land.

    This is also why I asked for clarification on Mr Liver's "expansion" comment. Disneyland contains undeveloped areas that would require varying levels of funding to develop. In some cases it may be cost effective for Disney to develop a new attraction in that area vs tearing out a current operating attraction. I don't really buy into the 1 for 1 ratio. I saw a lot of things close without new openings. Of the "choices" Festival Arena is by far the largest. There have been multiple plans for the area for decades. There is a high traffic path alongside it. It would be a viable place to put additional attractions but I don't think it would constitute a new "land". I see it more as support of Frontierland which currently lacks the foothold and attraction count it initially had on Disneyland.

    The thing I don't get however is why people constantly clamor for another E Ticket when Disneyland is so famous for the complete opposite. Its the theming, immersivness and creativity that make Disneyland so great, so different from the rest of the world. Never was Disneyland built to provide steady thrills. Heck, many people here have said in other threads that on a busy day they are more then happy to stroll the alleys of the park in awe of its beauty. This is why I hope that something like DB gets added to the park.
    Personally I would like to see 2, possibly even 3 additional attractions added to Frontierland.

    A lot of people would like to see a return of Cascade Peak in some form or another. I know Geyser Mine Shaft would probably be the best hope of that happening. Geyser Mine Shaft was a WDI proposal a while back. Think of it like Tower of Terror... with water... with a mine shaft theme. The construction would bring a new mountain to the area and this has additional potential.

    With some modification portions of the old Mine Train loop can be reused, allowing for a new, smaller, Mine Train through Nature's Wonderland. A major complaint among parents now is that there isn't a lot for little kids to do in Frontierland. CM's working BTM comment that the only options are the Big Boats, Fantasyland, or Adventureland. They wished there was a Frontier attraction they could direct little ones too. The new Mine Train would fit that bill.

    Depending on room there is also an opportunity to place a water "thrill" ride as well. I've read Western River Expedition, and it has potential but not in it's full form (too big). However boats that are sized similar to Small World, possibly even Pirates, could circle the mountain in a series of drops. The truely interesting thing is that the entrance would be at the top of the mountain, and the exit at the bottom... no lifts, just drops. I don't see it as a purely thrill based ride. I think of it as being similar to Pirates... a few drops, a lot of scenery, and a few nature AA's.

    Due to it's location you would also have a chance to make a new tunnel for the Disneyland Railroad. I imagine something similar to Carlsbad Caverns. The thought that they began a tunnel and by sheer luck ran into a cavern that was bigger then the tunnel. This cavern would have various natural rock formations including waterfalls and a river at it's bottom. That river would be connected to Western River Expedition, so at times you would see the boats going past.

    This would offer the "layered" approach currently seen in Tomorrowland. You have a new mountain. Geyser Mine Shaft goes through the center of the mountain. Disneyland Railroad has a new tunnel through the side of the mountain. Mine Train through Nature's Wonderland has multiple tunnels and trestles through the mountain. Western River has multiple tunnels through the mountain. Because of "crossing paths" it would also be possible to see one attraction from another. You see the Mine Train from the boats and vice versa. The tunnel for Disneyland Railroad goes through a cavern with a river at the bottom so you may see the boats there and the boats may see the train (depending on the glass). Geyser Mine Shaft opens at the top so it sees everything around it in the direction of Splash, NOS and Frontierland (carefully turned 45 degrees to prevent backstage viewing).

    That's my thought for the area. At one point Disneyland Railroad would likely be down for the construction of it's tunnel, but overall it would not present a logistical problem because that area is already secluded. The same could easily be said of constructing a new land in that area, I just don't think there is room for an entire new land.

    Following Liver's logic (even if I do not agree with it) the area most affected would be Critter Country. This would be a good thing IMHO because Critter Country needs additional expansion if possible.

    Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack the thread, this specifically is why I would not be interested in having Discovery Bay in that area. I feel that if Discovery Bay were placed in that area it would further restrict Frontierland. The blend of concepts I proposed would expand and further support Frontierland.
    Last edited by techskip; 05-24-2009 at 02:45 PM.
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