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  1. #31

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    Re: Where is the pier in Paradise Pier?

    While I agree that a surfing theme could have worked really well I don't think the planes are as out of theme as you think or at least I think I get the idea behind it. To me it does seem like an attraction you might have found at a real boardwalk at the time. Flying was still a novelty and barnstorming and airshow events were very popular and common in California back then. I could see how a flight based coaster attraction could have been very popular back then. Also, boardwalks were very eclectic in their themes, and themes were mixed together, there's no reason that everything has to have an ocean theme, a flight theme seems pretty realistic to the period.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
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  2. #32

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    Re: Where is the pier in Paradise Pier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    While I agree that a surfing theme could have worked really well I don't think the planes are as out of theme as you think or at least I think I get the idea behind it. To me it does seem like an attraction you might have found at a real boardwalk at the time. Flying was still a novelty and barnstorming and airshow events were very popular and common in California back then. I could see how a flight based coaster attraction could have been very popular back then. Also, boardwalks were very eclectic in their themes, and themes were mixed together, there's no reason that everything has to have an ocean theme, a flight theme seems pretty realistic to the period.
    Yes and no... yes flying was a novelty however most Boardwalks relied heavily on the seaside theme! I would have no complaints about Sky Skool... if it was being installed in Condor Flats (which desperately needs an under 40in biplane ride for little ones btw).

    I just think it's really going to stand out when everything else is related to the seaside and classic characters.
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  3. #33

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    Re: Where is the pier in Paradise Pier?

    They did rely a lot on nautical themes, I agree. But exotic and novelty themes were also pretty common. The zephyr is actually an example that of another flight theme that works fine. No matter what they do it probably won't fit in perfectly, but I think if they do it right it will at least blend in better and not look as bad as you think. I don't think there's anything amazing or wonderful about this theme, but I think it could be ok.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
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  4. #34

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    Re: Where is the pier in Paradise Pier?

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    When Seagulls prefer the parking lot over Paradise Pier I think it is safe to say the illusion isn't believable.
    I guess we could chalk it up to the guests being less prone to litter inside the park than they would be on a real pier...but yeah, pretty much.


  5. #35

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    Re: Where is the pier in Paradise Pier?

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    I also mentioned a while back that if they held a professional sand castle competition every summer it would likely draw in the crowds. I'm not sure how many people have seen these things but they aren't your standard run of the mill bucket o'sand castles... These are huge sculptures created by teams specifically for competition. Nothing says "Summer" and "Beach" like a sand castle competition.

    Another thing I don't understand is Goofy's Sky Skool... we have a Victorian seaside boardwalk theme. We have Little Mermaid to reinforce that theme. So now WDI wants to toss in an airplane ride... a plane... in a beach theme... good job! What really bothers me is that one of the most popular Goofy cartoons involves surfing... as in surfing on a surfboard near a beach in the ocean wearing a classic bathing suit... but WDI wants an airplane... thanks guys way to support the theme of the land!

    You know... you might have something there on the sand castle competition. My only concern would be where they would hold it and how it would be done. Obviously it CAN be done, but the space seems somewhat limited. If it's inaccessible to guests (down near the water) it won't be as convincing and guests would have a harder time seeing them. And then there'd be the issue of sand... if it does in fact blow everywhere, how could a sand castle competition be effective? Perhaps when Maliboomer is finally gone, the area can be made into a beach zone with a volleyball net or something. And when competition time comes along, the sand castles can be done in there. There are some very talented people out there. And once the sand castles are built the sand holds together with a type of invisible paste and doesn't blow around anywhere.

    I'm just as puzzled about the Goofy's Sky School. For one, I don't quite think Goofy needs to be in Paradise Pier, but if it's the one area that is becoming entirely inhabited by Disney characters, then I can live with it. As Uncle Bob says, flight themes aren't uncommon in board walks. Definitely not all of them, but you can often find a flight-themed attraction in them. Santa Monica Pier even has an old airplane-themed ride. But I still don't see such an attraction fitting into the Pier. That's something more suited to Condor Flats. I like the idea of it being a surfing-themed ride. But I can also see it being Goofy's Scuba School or something of the like.

  6. #36

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    Re: Where is the pier in Paradise Pier?

    They could have done a Donald overlay with boat vehicles too. Or even redone the car theme with vintage cars, there are plenty of Goofy driving films, though I guess those are more modern. There are probably a bunch more ideas that indeed would be just as good or better than GSS, but that doesn't mean it's completely out of theme. It's just an average idea, nothing really special to it. I do like Goofy in his old timey bathing suit though, that's one of the best aspects of Skip's surf idea.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
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  7. #37

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    Re: Where is the pier in Paradise Pier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Victoria View Post
    You know... you might have something there on the sand castle competition. My only concern would be where they would hold it and how it would be done. Obviously it CAN be done, but the space seems somewhat limited. If it's inaccessible to guests (down near the water) it won't be as convincing and guests would have a harder time seeing them. And then there'd be the issue of sand... if it does in fact blow everywhere, how could a sand castle competition be effective? Perhaps when Maliboomer is finally gone, the area can be made into a beach zone with a volleyball net or something. And when competition time comes along, the sand castles can be done in there. There are some very talented people out there. And once the sand castles are built the sand holds together with a type of invisible paste and doesn't blow around anywhere.
    Just to clarify the sand sculpture competition I was talking about would be open to teams that would normally compete at various sponsored events, not average day Guests. In some cases it is a competition, in others it is a contract hire (OC Fair's sculpture every year is an example of contract sculpture). I've seen them held before in various indoor and outdoor locations. All it requires is a bit of space, and a barrier between Guests and the Artists. The sand is also a special blend specificly designed for sculpting and can be saturated to prevent it from blowing. A lot of times it is just as fun to watch them build it as it is to see the finished product.

    -------------------- Edit --------------------

    This is an example of what I am talking about
    The 29th Annual U.S. Open Sandcastle Competition

    In this case it is "sand sculpture" but Disney could include it's own requirements for beach theme, Disney characters, design approval (to ensure design is family friendly) etc. The clubs would then compete against each other for a prize. This would bring attention to the clubs (one reason they enter actually), allow the public to see a bit of California beach culture, and boost DCA's numbers. You could also allow the public to vote (1 ballot per ticket) and that way the everyone feels included. I always think of little kids. Imagine if little Johnny from Kansas goes to DCA, sees this contest, then spends the next day at a SoCal Beach... he'd be building like mad trying to make his version of his favorite sculpture!
    Last edited by techskip; 05-27-2009 at 03:45 PM.
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  8. #38

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    Re: Where is the pier in Paradise Pier?

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    Just to clarify the sand sculpture competition I was talking about would be open to teams that would normally compete at various sponsored events, not average day Guests. In some cases it is a competition, in others it is a contract hire (OC Fair's sculpture every year is an example of contract sculpture). I've seen them held before in various indoor and outdoor locations. All it requires is a bit of space, and a barrier between Guests and the Artists. The sand is also a special blend specificly designed for sculpting and can be saturated to prevent it from blowing. A lot of times it is just as fun to watch them build it as it is to see the finished product.
    I understood that. I just meant in terms of park guests being able to get up close to the castles to get a good look at them.

  9. #39

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    Re: Where is the pier in Paradise Pier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Victoria View Post
    I understood that. I just meant in terms of park guests being able to get up close to the castles to get a good look at them.
    I figured you probably did... but I could see how some might mistake it as an open invitation for Guests to start playing in sand! I edited my post to be more specific. If Disney is taking out the SS Rustworthy (water play area) that is a decent sized spot! They could also probably put spots throughout Paradise Pier... it wouldn't have to all be in one spot.
    Last edited by techskip; 05-27-2009 at 04:17 PM.
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  10. #40

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    Re: Where is the pier in Paradise Pier?

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    I figured you probably did... but I could see how some might mistake it as an open invitation for Guests to start playing in sand! I edited my post to be more specific. If Disney is taking out the SS Rustworthy (water play area) that is a decent sized spot! They could also probably spots throughout Paradise Pier... it wouldn't have to all be in one spot.
    Yeah... sandboxes probably wouldn't be a good idea. I've always heard that they get dirty pretty easily... especially when you have a lot of youngsters who are still being potty-trained in them. I remember back in pre-school this little boy who got a kick out of eating the sand. In any case, sand castle expos/competitions are pretty cool to watch. If it's a big castle it can take awhile but in the end the result is usually pure awesome. I got into the hobby somewhat when I was a kid in Texas. I remember going to the beach on South Padre Island and making a sand castle of the Alamo fort. It was pretty big... and people that would walk by knew what it was. It was kind of cool.

    I forgot about the SS Rustworthy. It is pretty rustworthy, to be honest. I can see how it's fun for children but anyone that's grabbed some grub from Pizza Oom Oom Mow Mow (most terrible name in the park) or from Corn Dog Castle and has sat down nearby can attest that the constant bell ringing is the biggest nuisance in DCA. Well, that and the High School Musical float.
    Last edited by Princess Victoria; 05-27-2009 at 04:17 PM.

  11. #41

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    Re: Where is the pier in Paradise Pier?

    Quote Originally Posted by Victoria View Post
    I forgot about the SS Rustworthy. It is pretty rustworthy, to be honest.
    I caught myself. I initially wrote SS Rustoleum... then realized that was from Down Periscope not DCA!
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  12. #42

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    Re: Where is the pier in Paradise Pier?

    I like the ideas of a Fun House dark ride and Bumper Cars (though don't they have a small version of that at FFF and won't Luigi's Tire thingy be a little too similar?), but where would you put them?

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    Something else to note is that Paradise Pier should really be split up into 2 areas (it already naturally is). Part of it should be the pier, the other part is the seaside beach. The wood, or fake wood, should only encompass the pier portion of the land. The other portion should resemble a beach path with umbrellas, surfboards, chairs etc. along the way.
    Now that they're putting a wood pier/boardwalk on the north end of the bay for WoC, the theme of a pier gets even more convoluted. We've got boardwalks nearly surrounding a lake - where's the pier?!?!

  13. #43

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    Re: Where is the pier in Paradise Pier?

    That's like asking why do you take the stairs to get to the elevator at Tower of Terror?

  14. #44

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    Re: Where is the pier in Paradise Pier?

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyGuy View Post
    That's like asking why do you take the stairs to get to the elevator at Tower of Terror?
    That's a purely utilitarian detail. A necessary evil that most people won't think about anyway. What we're talking about is a whole land that claims to be one thing when it actually bears little resemblance to that thing. Granted, New Orleans Square sure isn't a square...but it's sure New Orleans! If Paradise Pier isn't gonna be a pier, it at least needs a little paradise...


  15. #45

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    Re: Where is the pier in Paradise Pier?

    ^ Ok I guess I can agree with that, the World of Color should bring in some of that paradise!

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