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  1. #16

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by Gregmh48 View Post
    The queue should actually move faster without Fastpass as the Standy queue is given more of the ride's capacity. The former 60 to 75 minute line should shrink to about 30 to 35 minutes, assuming of course that this lower wait time doesn't entice increased numbers of guests to ride.
    I was thinking about this at the parks yesterday. I was watching them re-route the Matterhorn line over to the other side of the path, back toward small world (why do they do that?), and the wait was huge! Normally, people would not keep getting in line with it that long, because once it reaches the back of the mountain, most people walk away. Without the normal context to judge the line in, and switchbacks and stuff, people just kept getting in line, and it was the longest Matterhorn line I've ever seen.

    Everyone has a wait time threshold at which they will walk up to a ride, and then walk away because the line's too long. For seasoned parkgoers, it's more finely tuned by what ride it is, how crowded it is that day, etc etc. I personally look more at the amount of people than at the number posted (because I feel like sometimes they don't update it enough). But even new guests have that number in their heads that seperates a "good" line from a line that's "too long".

    I suspect this is what would make the standby wait time always about the same, fastpass or no fastpass.


    And I like to add that while CMs get some great information from the company ahead of time, they also seem to get more rumors than anyone, and they quickly spread them among the guests in their friendly chatting.
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  2. #17

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Out of a combination of laziness and time saving I will not be indulging in the Fastpass debate. If anyone would like to read my thoughts on it I would direct them to the thread Mr Wiggins cited (and subsequently quoted me from). There is an overall explanation as well as documentation supporting why I do not believe it works. I, and many others on here, are fairly confident that it will be phased out over time. I will however address this

    Quote Originally Posted by TacAlert View Post
    Thank God Disney does this. I am sure Disney has its share of pedophiles and such at the park. It is good this parent was thinking, and many others, not to let a stranger sit next to their kids.
    On Indy and Thunder we were always taught not to group a Single Rider with a child, regardless if the Single Rider was male, female, adult or child. Likewise if the Single Rider was a child we would take extra precautions to seat them in an isolated location (empty row, seat gap on Indy etc.) In short we would only seat Single Rider Adults with Guest Adults.

    Again this was common practice at those two locations and was done for the child's safety. I am somewhat shocked that a CM on TSMM did that, and as a parent myself, I feel the father had every right to complain.
    Last edited by techskip; 05-31-2009 at 10:55 AM.
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  3. #18

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    I fully approve of fastpass and I believe that it will be around for quite a while longer, for while frequent visitors attest to problems in Stand-by. The tourist will see it as a perk and will like it. A tourist can easily be pleased, which is why we still have some things in the park which should be gone.
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  4. #19

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilsbro View Post
    Having to deal with the headache that fastpass is personally.....Not all of his information was true...it actually boosts the ride attendance counts...one draw back to Fastpass is a higher wait time in general and often times more Fastpass than standby...fast pass is here to stay...and Nemo was the first "New" ride to open without a fastpass....just saying
    And if you go back to the 50th festivities, when Space Mt reopened, the Fastpass system was Not opened immediately for the Refurbished Mt. And you know what. The Regular line was long, BUT it actually was not too long of a wait. The regular line kept move rapidly, because you didn't have all the FastPasses "cutting in line". At that point I realized that FastPass only created a longer standby line.

    Matterhorn doesn't have a FastPass, and the line moves quickly.

    Indy has FastPass, and it only creates a huge blockade in Adventureland, with the added lines to get a FastPass, and for returning FastPass ticket holders, And when those fastpass ticket holder arrive to early, they create more of a blockade for others. In the meantime the majority of the great queue in Indy is wasted space. Not to mention the additional cast members needed to sort out the FastPass people. If any FastPass should be 1st to go, it should be Indy's.

    The fastpass at Big Thunder really isn't needed either.

  5. #20

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Well, I can see both sides of this being a former CM and a current AP holder. When I worked Autopia and we used Fastpass during the summer the line would be at least 40 minutes the entire day. But, one day in mid July all Fastpass machines went down throughout the entire park and there was no Fastpass available. That day the line at Auto was constantly moving and if we opened the grandstand it was only to use the first tier. The line that day in the busy summer month topped at 20 minutes. In that respect, it showed how Fastpass on an attraction like Auto makes the line worse than better.

    But, just going by what I am seeing in The Break Room, a lot of people are being put on the waitlist for attractions. I will say that at attractions like Buzz and Space Fastpass will give the attraction more positions for more staff. Get rid of Fastpass at both and there goes the distribution, validation and merge positions. That would cut hours at each attraction and leave the CMs with even less hours than they are getting now.

    I remember going to the park when there was no Fastpass and while some lines did get long they were never intolerable. In fact, it gave you time to appreciate the queue and notice the little things put in for your enjoyment rather than running through half the line. Double edged sword I guess but I wouldn't mind if the took out Fastpass for a couple of months as an experiment.





  6. #21

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    As a once a year or 2 Disneyland visitor that only goes in the busy summer times, i can say there are definatly ups and downs. Its really nice if your organized like i am and take advantage of the fastpass, and get to cut a few lines. At the same time, a fastpass is like a merging street. Everyone wants to get ahead of everyone and it just ends up making everything worse and blocking up the road. I could definatly see something like that happening with the fastpass system.

    Like for Indy its great, because the line for Indy is HUGE every time i go, so if you have a fast pass, it makes it much more bareable. But who knows how much shorter/longer the line might be otherwise.

    One thing i would say is that a lot of times people do look at how many people, and analyse how long its going to be according to that, and if the line was the same length but DIDNT have the fastpass, it would go by much faster, with less people wanting to step in line that dont know otherwise.

    But i would have to say that i am for the fast pass system.

  7. #22

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSchoolMickey View Post
    Another week, another Fastpass thread. Hasn't the poor dead horse been beaten enough???


    Yes, please, will the fine folks at Disney put an end to the madness and yank out all of the FP machines. PLEASE!


    Even though we know how to fully take advantage of the current FP system, I would prefer the first come, first served process of lines.



    You just answered your question. Fastpasses ARE first come first serve.

  8. #23

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    I said I wouldn't get into this but I can't find the one quote I was looking for so I'll just make one.
    Quote Originally Posted by twobluestripes View Post
    Everyone has a wait time threshold at which they will walk up to a ride, and then walk away because the line's too long. For seasoned parkgoers, it's more finely tuned by what ride it is, how crowded it is that day, etc etc. I personally look more at the amount of people than at the number posted (because I feel like sometimes they don't update it enough). But even new guests have that number in their heads that seperates a "good" line from a line that's "too long".

    I suspect this is what would make the standby wait time always about the same, fastpass or no fastpass.
    Actually they are generally shorter without Fastpass and it is in part because of the threshold you describe. When an individual gets a Fastpass they have a specific amount of time "to kill" before they can be admitted to that attraction. Disney's initial design intent, per their own internal memo, was for individuals to use that time to shop and dine. Instead people utilize that time to stand in lines for other attractions, basically standing in 2 lines at once. In many cases they don't care how long the line is that they are standing in because "I have to kill x minutes before I can use this Fastpass anyways". If that investment is removed then time becomes a lot more valuable. Suddenly people aren't willing to wait 75 minutes for Indy because they only have 1 day in the parks etc. Without Fastpass the queues are representative of that threshold (assuming no attractions are down which would cause an increase in attractions nearest the 101). With Fastpass there is no telling how many people are in line because it is their favorite, and how many are just "killing time" and otherwise would not be in a line that long.

    Another issue is that Disney has mandated that queues past the merge point be kept between 10 and 15 minutes. This mandate is most noticeable on Indy and Space, both of which previously had extensive internal queues. When something designed to hold 30 to 45min worth of people is only allowed to hold 10 or 15 minutes worth then those people have to go somewhere else. The result is extensive outdoor queues. Indy's "digs" have been extensively modified as well as it's entrance and it still takes up Jungle's Upper 1 on the busiest of days. This is a combination of not being able to use internal queue space, and the willingness of people to wait in line to "kill time".

    A third issue is Disney's acceptance of Fastpass after it has expired. There are many times when an individual will get a Fastpass for an attraction, and not use it unless the queue is beyond a certain point. This causes a surge in Fastpass when the queue is busiest instead of a steady stream of individuals throughout the day. Remember Fastpass is based on an equation that takes into account wait time, number of vehicles running etc. It issues a specific amount based on this calculation. If the number of vehicles is reduced for any reason (lack of staff, mechanical etc.) then it screws up Fastpass. The Fastpass system already issued the tickets assuming x number of vehicles would be on the track, there is no way to "un issue" the tickets. The result is that you have to hold more Standby and accept the Fastpass... it happens a lot on Indy. Likewise Fastpass issues a steady stream, and if enough people ignore the time and just "show up" during the busy time then you are again holding Standby to accomadate the increase in Fastpass and thereby maintain the 10 to 15 minute buffer. The most extreme example is when an attraction comes up from a downtime and the Standby queue barely moves because the Fastpass takes priority. I'm not heartless... I know why Disney accepts expired Fastpasses (they aren't in the business of saying no and causing problems). But if an attraction was not down, then there really isn't an excuse for showing up at 2pm instead of 10am... just because the line at 10am didn't seem "worth it" to use a Fastpass.

    I have to stress this is not everyone. But when someone says they utilize Fastpass to it's maximum potential... the maximum potential would be always holding a Fastpass while standing in another queue. Essentially standing in 2 lines at once. When enough people do this they don't care how long that second line is because they have to kill time anyways. I've also met other individuals who use Fastpass to their maximum potential. They use it in the way it was designed... grab a Fastpass and then go off and relax. There is a difference between maximum potential of the system, and maximum potential for an individual.

    There is more detail in the other thread including specific examples of Fastpass being up and being down. The public loves it in part because it makes them feel special, VIP treatment if you will because they get to go "right on". But the reality is the same individuals who complain about "Fastpass cutting me off... I waited here x minutes and they walked right up..." are the ones who then use their Fastpass on another attraction and see no issue with going right on. To say that the main complainers are AP's... I really don't care how long of a line Fastpass creates. If the line is too long I'll just come back another day, week, month etc. It is the tourist who rarely comes and has a limited amount of time in the park (1 day, 3 days, 1 week etc.) who has to suffer the effects of Fastpass. They can't just say "Oh Well" and come back next week if they think the line is too long.

    I knew this would be a can of worms and I should have just read instead of posting... I don't think it will merge with the other thread because the other thread asked for improvements... but you never know.
    Last edited by techskip; 05-31-2009 at 12:44 PM.
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  9. #24

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    I hope not it does not happen. People will become more impatient especially at the long lines.

  10. #25

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    They should go, and I wouldn't be surprised if they are going. Phasing them out just seems like the best direction to go and already the direction they're headed. The fact that they didn't put one on FNSV or TSMM sure looks like a big hint that it's lost favor with DLR management, and for good reason. It's pretty stupid to actually be spending money on something that makes things worse. Once it's done they won't have to worry about complaints that much because most people will have a better experience.
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  11. #26

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    They should go, and I wouldn't be surprised if they are going. Phasing them out just seems like the best direction to go and already the direction they're headed. The fact that they didn't put one on FNSV or TSMM sure looks like a big hint that it's lost favor with DLR management, and for good reason. It's pretty stupid to actually be spending money on something that makes things worse. Once it's done they won't have to worry about complaints that much because most people will have a better experience.
    FNSV is interesting in that they could not figure out a simple way to implement it due to space. As I mentioned earlier about the effect of Fastpass on external queues. Also Nemo is realitivly high capacity, and high capacity attractions (namely HM and POC) have already phased out Fastpass due to complications. HM has Fastpass in the Holiday season but that is an exception due to the popularity of HMH.

    TSMM is another story all together because it was constructed from the ground up. They easily could have included a Fastpass queue, BLAB did, but they chose not to. I would look to the decision not to include it on TSMM, and the phasing out of Fastpass on attractions within the parks, as the example... not FNSV.
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  12. #27

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    I agree with Mr. Techskip. To me, Toy Story Midway Mania isn't an attraction that deserves a Fastpass. Fastpasses should only be utilized for major E-Tickets, and TSMM is more of a D-Ticket.

  13. #28

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by ICe101 View Post
    I agree with Mr. Techskip. To me, Toy Story Midway Mania isn't an attraction that deserves a Fastpass. Fastpasses should only be utilized for major E-Tickets, and TSMM is more of a D-Ticket.
    BLAB wasn't a major E Ticket either. It was constructed at the peak of Fastpass so a Fastpass queue was included in it's design. Designing for a Fastpass queue (Hollywood Tower Hotel is another example) is a lot easier then forcing one on an attraction that it wasn't designed for. Either way it has the same effect of making the exterior queue longer. The only difference is that if you design for it then you have extra queue space set aside ahead of time... instead of scrambling to create more space after the fact. I believe that was a major factor in not including it in FNSV. The designers were using the existing station queue and did not see a simple way to implement it without causing a longer standby line. At opening it already had a substantial line... Fastpass would have made it that much longer.

    Overall I am still against it. When asked how to improve it all I could say was to be strict on accepting the return times. That will help during peak times, but the overall effect is still a longer line with people standing in it simply to kill time. Personally I think it is a flawed system that is already being phased out. I think it would be of better service to the average Guest to make the wait time system more accurate. The current system is mainly guesswork, and relies on CM's to update it when they can. But I really can't think of a system that could accurately do this without being either cost prohibitive or intrusive on Guests. They currently have wait time survey cards... but not every Guest who is given one remembers to hand them to the CM and the CM doesn't always record the time so you have the built in margin of human error there as well.

    I thought about scanning a group of tickets at the attraction entrance, and at load, but then you have to scan the same group of individuals otherwise it wouldn't work. Due to efficiency you can't scan everyone's tickets so you are back in the same boat. RFID would work, but it's expensive and to some would be considered intrusive. I really wouldn't want to carry around something Disney could bring up if they wanted to know my exact location. CM's know that when they had a Guest something (3-D Glasses, Rider Switch, Single Rider, Wait Time Card etc.) they may not see it again. I can't see Disney implementing an expensive RFID system knowing this. The simple solution would be to have a CM standing at the doorway that scans the RFID because it would then "beep" or "flash". However that wouldn't stop someone from simply getting out of line and pocketing it (not clue why they would want it but it happens at restaurants now).
    Last edited by techskip; 05-31-2009 at 01:49 PM.
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  14. #29

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Uh oh. Not another/again/yet/still/more Fastpass debate...

    I'm going to summarize my view point, like I did on the last FP thread, and pray I don't get sucked into yet another Fastpass debate.

    a) having more options in life is a good thing. FP gives you more options.

    b) it may slow down the standby line, but the standby line would be longer anyway if it wasn't for FP. That's cuz a lot of people would get in line before you get there -- instead of grabbing an FP.

    c) Many or most people in line already have an FP in their pocket for another ride. So spare us the tired argument about how the "standby people" are downtrodden victims of the evil "FP people". Most theme park patrons are one and the same.

    d) I believe the majority of the people who oppose the FP system are AP holders. That's because tourists need FP a lot more. Tourists have a limited amount of time to enjoy what they want in the parks, and shouldn't have to face the following daunting choice: wasting a disproportionate amount of their expensive travel time waiting in line for the most popular rides -- or skipping them altogether.

    Before FPs, I remember what it was like as a tourist. Your only option to do the most popular rides was to show up early in the morning, because later in the day, Space Mountain et. al. were impossible to get into. We had one day at DL, we're not going to waste 90 minutes in line for one ride.

    The same thing happened to me on my most recent DLR trip, in May of last year. Nemo Subs has no FP, and the standby line was always ridiculous for that ride. So we reluctantly skipped it, since we only had 2.5 days in the parks. With FP, we could have done it at least once.

    Whether or not you think that ride is good, the point is that having to skip it really sucked. We don't know when we'll be coming back to California. It hurts to have to leave out a major ride (which we've never ridden before) because we didn't want to wait at least an hour for it. AP holders, of course, can always come back some other time, and sooner or later do every ride they want as many times as they want. Must be nice.

    I know the pet theory of FP opponents goes like this: FP increases overall wait times for all rides. Well, I just don't see it. When me and the g.f. went to WDW in the off season, most rides were a walk on, whether or not they had the FP system. The wait times were really a result of popularity. The newest, most popular rides (Soarin', Kilimanjaro Safaris) had horrific wait times; the less popular rides had no waiting, whether or not they had FPs.

    When I went back to WDW early this month, the parks were a lot busier, but I noticed the same thing. Example: Buzz had a 5-10 minute wait time on a busy Thursday night at the Magic Kingdom. By contrast, TSMM had a 30 minute wait time first thing in the morning on Friday, before the first FPs were even valid. I was at the park at rope drop, and was among the first to snag a FP. The return time was 11:00. When I came back at 11, the wait time had balooned to 50 or 60 minutes, with few people in the FP line.

    So, we have similar types of rides (interactive shooters), both with an FP system, but one is far more popular than the other, hence one has far longer wait times. Those wait times have nothing to do with FPs.
    Last edited by disneyfann121; 05-31-2009 at 02:34 PM.

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSchoolMickey View Post

    Oh, and can we have yet ANOTHER poll about the subject?

    I honestly didn't know there was another thread on this complete with a poll. A lil hard to think about this when your feet are screaming bloody murder at 1am in the morning. But be happy I didn't put a poll with this one. Wouldn't need one.


    Quote Originally Posted by TacAlert View Post
    Thank God Disney does this. I am sure Disney has its share of pedophiles and such at the park. It is good this parent was thinking, and many others, not to let a stranger sit next to their kids.

    I had meant to say that after DB explained this to me, I was in complete agreement with Disney doing this. I just wish that they did it on all rides.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gregmh48 View Post
    The queue should actually move faster without Fastpass as the Standy queue is given more of the ride's capacity. The former 60 to 75 minute line should shrink to about 30 to 35 minutes, assuming of course that this lower wait time doesn't entice increased numbers of guests to ride.
    It would entice more guests to go on that ride and wait in line for it. Because it's that popular of a ride. But after seeing how many people on here have said that FP is worse for a ride cause it extends the line, after thinking about it after a full night's rest, I can see where they're coming from. For rides like Space or Splash, they hold off standby at a certain point to let in FP users. But whether there is a lot of FP users coming in or not, the CM which is at the "control" part who filters in FP and standby, needs to let in a fair and balanced amount from both sides. It just doesn't help though when the line gets backed up to that control point. But the one main difference between Space and Splash, is that Splash has two sides to the line, throughout the queue. And when I worked on that ride, the control point was just before the loading area. When I was at that post, if there was no one coming through the fastpass line, I'd send people from standby through the FP side as well.

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