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  1. #31

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    The line for Nemo is an hour because people are standing in it while holding a Space and Indy FP at the same time. You were a victim of the FP system and you think it's a good thing, just as most tourists do.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
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  2. #32

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    The wait time survey cards were a joke when I was there. You would hand a card, that resembled a business card, to a person and hoped the person remembered to return it to the CM at group. More often than not, especially if it was a long line, the person would either end up throwing them away or just forgetting about them. At the end of the night we would be lucky if we got 10 back. It wasn't really helpful at all, more of a pain actually. I think now they use a hard plastic thing instead of the paper card but I was already gone when that change took place.

    I do agree with the fact that I think that Fastpass return times should be enforced. At Space we would cringe at the thought of being greeter/validation after the fireworks because that would mean a wave of people coming up the ramp with their Fastpasses and the majority of them would be expired. In order to accommodate them the people in standby would be screwed and they might not move at all for an upwards of 10 minutes and if they have already been waiting 45 minutes before then you end up with a lot of pissed off people at merge, which wasn't a fun place to be after pyro either.





  3. #33

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by disneyfann121 View Post
    Uh oh. Not another/again/yet/still/more Fastpass debate...

    I'm going to quickly summarize my view point, like I did on the last FP thread, and pray I don't get sucked into yet another Fastpass debate.

    a) having more options in life is a good thing. FP gives you more options.

    b) it may slow down the standby line, but the standby line would be longer anyway if it wasn't for FP. That's cuz a lot of people would get in line before you get there -- instead of grabbing an FP.

    c) Many or most people in line already have an FP in their pocket for another ride. So spare us the tired argument about how the "standby people" are downtrodden victims of the evil "FP people". Most theme park patrons are one and the same.

    d) I believe the majority of the people who oppose the FP system are AP holders. That's because tourists need FP a lot more. Tourists have a limited amount of time to enjoy what they want in the parks, and shouldn't have to face the following daunting choice: wasting a disproportionate amount of their expensive travel time waiting in line for the most popular rides -- or skipping them altogether.

    Before FPs, I remember what it was like as a tourist. Your only option to do the most popular rides was to show up early in the morning, because later in the day, Space Mountain et. al. were impossible to get into. We had one day at DL, we're not going to waste 90 minutes in line for one ride.

    The same thing happened to me on my most recent DLR trip, in May of last year. Nemo Subs has no FP, and the standby line was always ridiculous for that ride. So we reluctantly skipped it, since we only had 2.5 days in the parks. With FP, we could have done it at least once.

    Whether or not you think that ride is good, the point is that having to skip it really sucked. We don't know when we'll be coming back to California. It hurts to have to leave out a major ride because we didn't want to wait at least an hour for it. AP holders, of course, can always come back some other time, and sooner or later do every ride they want as many times as they want. Must be nice.

    I'm an annual passholder, but I utilize the FP system as much as I can. And if I want to be able to get on Space during the weekend, I know that I have to get there early in the day to get a pass, and either stay all day, or leave and come back later. I know as much as most people that you can use the pass after the last time listed. Or, at least until Disney changes that policy. Not trying to start another arguement or debate, but there might be some that want Disney to change that policy and make FP'ers return within the time listed and not use it beyond the time listed. But here's a little food for thought when it comes to AP's and fastpasses. When Disney first started using fastpass, the machines were designed so that a fastpass can be dispensed by pressing a button on the back of the machine. This was mainly for CM's to use to help a guest who was having difficulty getting a pass. A lot of AP's started figuring this out and were beginning to abuse this system. So, Disney had to increase the security on these and place locks on them. So to sum it up, not all AP's hate fastpasses.

  4. #34

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    I think they should continue to remove it until it's all gone by 2012 when Cars Land opens. If they did that I bet most rides in the entire resort other than the CL rides and TLM would very rarely get over 30 minutes. You can afford to wait an hour for the new rides if every other line is short. All FP does is unnatually manipulate wait times for all the rides. There are always still the same number of guests in the parks either way.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

  5. #35

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by disneyfann121 View Post
    I'm going to quickly summarize my view point, like I did on the last FP thread, and pray I don't get sucked into yet another Fastpass debate.
    Hopefully you are stronger then me because here I am after I tried to avoid it! Not to pick on you but I am going to use your own quotes to point something out.

    c) Many or most people in line already have an FP in their pocket for another ride. So spare us the tired argument about how the "standby people" are downtrodden victims of the evil "FP people". Most theme park patrons are one and the same.
    and
    Before FPs, I remember what it was like as a tourist. Your only option to do the most popular rides was to show up early in the morning, because later in the day, Space Mountain et. al. were impossible to get into. We had one day at DL, we're not going to waste 90 minutes in line for one ride.
    If most individuals are standing in line with a Fastpass then they are technically standing in 2 lines at once. In short they are part of the problem. Fastpass is their incentive to stand in line to burn time because as you cited there was no incentive for an individual to wait 90 minutes back in the 90's. If you have Fastpass then it's 90 minutes less you are waiting to use your Fastpass and you get to ride a second attraction. That's simple logic.

    Now let's compare this
    d) I believe the majority of the people who oppose the FP system are AP holders. That's because tourists need FP a lot more. Tourists have a limited amount of time to enjoy what they want in the parks, and shouldn't have to face the following daunting choice: wasting a disproportionate amount of their expensive travel time waiting in line for the most popular rides -- or skipping them altogether.
    to this
    Whether or not you think that ride is good, the point is that having to skip it really sucked. We don't know when we'll be coming back to California. It hurts to have to leave out a major ride (which we've never ridden before) because we didn't want to wait at least an hour for it. AP holders, of course, can always come back some other time, and sooner or later do every ride they want as many times as they want. Must be nice.
    WHY would an AP holder care if the line is 75 minutes or longer when they can simply come back another day, another week, or another month and ride it when the line is shorter? The only individuals who are affected by longer lines are tourists like yourself who have a limited time at the resort. Fastpass causes longer lines, phasing it out or eliminating it would be to your benefit, not the AP's. AP's can always come back at a later date when things are quieter.

    I said it in the other thread and I will say it here as well. In 95 when Indy opened the line was over 8 hours. In 98 Indy's line was still well above 1.5 hours in the Summer. Those who stood in line and rode Indy did so because they wanted to experience the attraction. They did not stand in line simply to kill tme. Time had a specific value and to them Indy's experience was worth that wait. Now that value is irrevelant because people need to kill time before they can use their Fastpass.

    Quote Originally Posted by AidensDaddy View Post
    I can see where they're coming from. For rides like Space or Splash, they hold off standby at a certain point to let in FP users. But whether there is a lot of FP users coming in or not, the CM which is at the "control" part who filters in FP and standby, needs to let in a fair and balanced amount from both sides. It just doesn't help though when the line gets backed up to that control point. But the one main difference between Space and Splash, is that Splash has two sides to the line, throughout the queue. And when I worked on that ride, the control point was just before the loading area. When I was at that post, if there was no one coming through the fastpass line, I'd send people from standby through the FP side as well.
    As a CM there were 2 things you were always aware of when at Merge... Fastpass takes priority, and the queue from that point on needs to be under 15 minutes. You can blend the lines etc. but Fastpass must take priority, and you have to keep the lines below 15 minutes.
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  6. #36

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    The line for Nemo is an hour because people are standing in it while holding a Space and Indy FP at the same time. You were a victim of the FP system and you think it's a good thing, just as most tourists do.
    Okay, for the guest who come for only 3 days, fastpasses allow them to ride more.

  7. #37

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by AidensDaddy View Post
    When Disney first started using fastpass, the machines were designed so that a fastpass can be dispensed by pressing a button on the back of the machine. This was mainly for CM's to use to help a guest who was having difficulty getting a pass. A lot of AP's started figuring this out and were beginning to abuse this system. So, Disney had to increase the security on these and place locks on them. So to sum it up, not all AP's hate fastpasses.
    Minor correction but you got the majority of it right. The fastpasses have always been scan based, not button based. The button on the back was for a CM to override a Fastpass if your ticket was unable to scan for any reason. The most common reason was someone geting a drenched/mangled ticket from Splash. So the CM could press a button in the back and get you a Fastpass without needing an actual ticket. On the original system the button was enabled/disabled by a switch that was inside the machine's cover. AP's figured out how to press the button to get a Fastpass without a ticket. They also figured out how to flip the switch to enable the button. So... Disney started locking the machines. Incidentally the enable is now computer based, as is the distribution, so a CM doesn't even need a button anymore.

    When it was slow I used to love causing a "jackpot" effect on Indy. I'd wait until a little kid came up to scan a ticket then press override 4 or 5 times and watch. The kid would be shocked as the tickets kept pouring out. They usually thought they broke the machine! I stress I only did this in the off season when it was slow and Fastpass was useless (line averaged 10 or 15 minutes maybe 20 at most).
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


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  8. #38

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    Hopefully you are stronger then me because here I am after I tried to avoid it! Not to pick on you but I am going to use your own quotes to point something out.

    and If most individuals are standing in line with a Fastpass then they are technically standing in 2 lines at once. In short they are part of the problem. Fastpass is their incentive to stand in line to burn time because as you cited there was no incentive for an individual to wait 90 minutes back in the 90's. If you have Fastpass then it's 90 minutes less you are waiting to use your Fastpass and you get to ride a second attraction. That's simple logic.

    Now let's compare this to this
    WHY would an AP holder care if the line is 75 minutes or longer when they can simply come back another day, another week, or another month and ride it when the line is shorter? The only individuals who are affected by longer lines are tourists like yourself who have a limited time at the resort. Fastpass causes longer lines, phasing it out or eliminating it would be to your benefit, not the AP's. AP's can always come back at a later date when things are quieter.

    I said it in the other thread and I will say it here as well. In 95 when Indy opened the line was over 8 hours. In 98 Indy's line was still well above 1.5 hours in the Summer. Those who stood in line and rode Indy did so because they wanted to experience the attraction. They did not stand in line simply to kill tme. Time had a specific value and to them Indy's experience was worth that wait. Now that value is irrevelant because people need to kill time before they can use their Fastpass.

    As a CM there were 2 things you were always aware of when at Merge... Fastpass takes priority, and the queue from that point on needs to be under 15 minutes. You can blend the lines etc. but Fastpass must take priority, and you have to keep the lines below 15 minutes.
    Yeah I remembered that.

  9. #39

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post

    When it was slow I used to love causing a "jackpot" effect on Indy. I'd wait until a little kid came up to scan a ticket then press override 4 or 5 times and watch. The kid would be shocked as the tickets kept pouring out. They usually thought they broke the machine! I stress I only did this in the off season when it was slow and Fastpass was useless (line averaged 10 or 15 minutes maybe 20 at most).


    Positively evil!!! I love it!!!



    This is inspiring another thread idea. I hope no one beat me to it!

  10. #40

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by ICe101 View Post
    Okay, for the guest who come for only 3 days, fastpasses allow them to ride more.
    Even this is debatable. First it depends on the time of year the individual arrives. It also depends on the day of the week (weekday is generally less crowded then weekends). You also have to factor in what the individual wants to do. Fastpass does one specific thing. It tells you that you can experience said attraction at said time provided it is running. This allows people to plan around it, and thereby get 2 or 3 Fastpasses throughout the day.

    But there's a catch. On the busier days the Fastpasses for more popular attractions are already sold out by noon (which prompted the other thread). This forces the individual to either forgo the experience all together (as cited in the Nemo example), or stand in the longer queue Fastpass helped to create. Due to the proliferation of Fastpass attractions, all queues are longer, not just those of Fastpass attractions. People don't care if the line is longer, they have a Fastpass and they need to burn X amount of time. If an individual is unable to get the Fastpasses they desire then they may actually do less because they are standing in the extended Standby queues.

    This is where the "can't beat them join them" mentality comes in. I know how to abuse the system. It is a flaw Disney created and is incapable of addressing. I encourage individuals to exploit this flaw to their advantage while Fastpass is running. I do this in hopes of creating a better experience for the individual. Realizing that if the individual didn't do it... many others would... so if you can't beat them join them.

    The question every tourist would face is do they want the guaranteed attractions, or shorter lines throughout the park? In some cases you may get 6 or 7 Fastpasses, other times it may be 2 or 3... that is a ride you WILL experience. The alternative is shorter lines, and investing your time in those experiences you feel are worth the wait. You would be standing with other individuals who feel it is worth the wait, and not just killing time.
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  11. #41

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Let me rephrase that, FastPasses, enable you to do more. The question is are you willing to make the effort to do so?

  12. #42

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    The line for Nemo is an hour because people are standing in it while holding a Space and Indy FP at the same time. You were a victim of the FP system and you think it's a good thing, just as most tourists do.
    I was not a victim of the FP system. I was able to get on most rides with a reasonable wait time. For the most popular ones, like Space and Indy, I was able to do those more than once thanks to FP.

    As for Nemo, it's well known that the long lines for that ride are due to popularity (it's the newest ride at DL) and slow loading. Wait times are all about the popularity of a ride, and have little to do with FPs. That was true -- and common sense -- before the system was introduced, and it's true now.

    I remember going to DL on a weekday in the summer of '98, a year before the FP system was introduced. We only had one day in the park. We got on Space and Indy only because we got in at rope drop. We would have liked to do both rides again later in the day, but forget that. The wait times were horrible. Too bad we couldn't blame it on the evil FP system, since that scapegoat hadn't been invented yet.

  13. #43

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by ICe101 View Post
    Let me rephrase that, FastPasses, enable you to do more. The question is are you willing to make the effort to do so?
    If an individual utilizes Fastpass to it's potential then yes they can get a lot done in a 3 day visit. If the majority of what they want to do does not have a Fastpass then they are stuck with the Standby queues that are longer due to Fastpass.

    An example would be a family visiting with young children who do not meet the 40in height requirement. This family would likely utilize Fantasyland among other locations. Fantasyland does not have Fastpass but it has long lines. Part of the reason for the long lines is Fastpass. People get Fastpasses and then go to something without a Fatspass to "burn time". For that family they would actually get less done with Fastpass in place then without it.

    Locals don't care. We simply show up when it's quieter or grit our teeth when it's crowded. We can always come back another time.
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  14. #44

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by disneyfann121 View Post
    I was not a victim of the FP system. I was able to get on most rides with a reasonable wait time. For the most popular ones, like Space and Indy, I was able to do those more than once thanks to FP.

    As for Nemo, it's well known that the long lines for that ride are due to popularity (it's the newest ride at DL) and slow loading. Wait times are all about the popularity of a ride, and have little to do with FPs. That was true -- and common sense -- before the system was introduced, and it's true now.

    I remember going to DL on a weekday in the summer of '98, a year before the FP system was introduced. We only had one day in the park. We got on Space and Indy only because we got in at rope drop. We would have liked to do both rides again later in the day, but forget that. The wait times were horrible. Too bad we couldn't blame it on the evil FP system, since that scapegoat hadn't been invented yet.
    Anything pre DCA is pretty much totally uncomparable.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

  15. #45

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    I think Techskip has elaborately dealt with the logistical problems that FP is the cause of, but I think this debate operates on too many assumptions.

    I think the assumption on the side of those who advocate for the continued existence of FP is that the argument is a case of "haves" vs. "have-nots." That is, for those who are in favor of the eradication of FP, they have been burned by the system or are expressing sympathy for tourists who cannot maximize the use of FP. In reality though, the addition of the system has aggravated wait times at standby lines, and made it perceivably longer due to the ratio system. Buzz Lightyear is a continuously moving attraction with an incredibly high hourly ride capacity, but the line is inefficient and slow moving.

    It boggles my mind that a ride with such high capacity even needs Fastpass, but I think Disney faces too many challenges for them to remove FP. Locals would immediately notice the absence of such a service, especially since it's free, and people would look to other parks like Six Flags and Universal that offer line-skipping services for a fee, wondering why Disney is not "up" to what is perceived as an industry standard.

    I believe Disneyland is an enjoyable experience without Fastpass. It doesn't artificially contribute to longer wait times, in addition, I would imagine it reduces a frenzied atmosphere where you attempt to meet deadlines and divide your day by one-hour timeslots.
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