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  1. #46

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by disneyfann121 View Post

    I remember going to DL on a weekday in the summer of '98, a year before the FP system was introduced. We only had one day in the park. We got on Space and Indy only because we got in at rope drop. We would have liked to do both rides again later in the day, but forget that. The wait times were horrible. Too bad we couldn't blame it on the evil FP system, since that scapegoat hadn't been invented yet.

    I do have to agree with you on this. Before FP was brought into the picture, if you were to do the big rides, or say even the entire mountain range and Indy, you'd have to do them when the park first opens. Everyone would be running to Space or Indy at rope drop. People still do that of course, but now with FP in the picture, you can either do one of 2 things if you do Space Mountain first thing at opening:

    1. Grab a fastpass and then just go on Space Mountain.

    2. Grab a fastpass and then go on something else, like Nemo or Peter Pan, or just go have breakfast somewhere.

    Now with Fastpass, it gives guests - Annual Passholders and One Day Visitors alike - the convenient option to PLAN AHEAD!!! They can then go on it at any other time during the day and go on something else. In reference to the other thread, perhaps they could lighten up the restrictions a little bit. Limit the amount of fastpasses a person can get on a particular ride per day. Like say a person can only get 2 FP's on those rides per day, per visit. Say at rope drop, you get a FP for Space Mountain. Thats your first of 2 freebies. And you can't get another one for say an hour or two. But you're free to get another FP for another ride like Indy, Buzz, Autopia, Splash, Roger Rabbit, or Thunder. (Hard to believe those are the only rides that have it now. Use to be more.) But once you've received two on each of those rides, you're blocked for the rest of the day. But it still gives the guest the option to plan ahead. THAT is the convenience of fastpass. Disney just needs to provide a larger number for all guests.

  2. #47

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    If an individual utilizes Fastpass to it's potential then yes they can get a lot done in a 3 day visit. If the majority of what they want to do does not have a Fastpass then they are stuck with the Standby queues that are longer due to Fastpass.

    An example would be a family visiting with young children who do not meet the 40in height requirement. This family would likely utilize Fantasyland among other locations. Fantasyland does not have Fastpass but it has long lines. Part of the reason for the long lines is Fastpass. People get Fastpasses and then go to something without a Fatspass to "burn time". For that family they would actually get less done with Fastpass in place then without it.

    Locals don't care. We simply show up when it's quieter or grit our teeth when it's crowded. We can always come back another time.
    Exactly. I probably passed by Nemo 40 times before I finally happened to see it only 10 minutes late one night. I could care less if it's an hour most of the time. The family from out of time with little kids is the one that suffers, not me. It's actually better for me if FP stays, but I don't think it's a good thing for the park or for the average guest.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
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  3. #48

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    If an individual utilizes Fastpass to it's potential then yes they can get a lot done in a 3 day visit. If the majority of what they want to do does not have a Fastpass then they are stuck with the Standby queues that are longer due to Fastpass.

    An example would be a family visiting with young children who do not meet the 40in height requirement. This family would likely utilize Fantasyland among other locations. Fantasyland does not have Fastpass but it has long lines. Part of the reason for the long lines is Fastpass.
    The bolded quotes are bogus. I remember what Fantasyland lineups were like long before FPs. They were bad then, and they are bad now. We went to DL a lot in the 70s and early 80s. We never even bothered trying to get into Fantasyland rides later in the day. Forget that, you had to wait at least 60 minutes for a 2-3 minute ride. Again, this is long before FPs became a popular scapegoat.

    Maybe some AP holders would rather blame FPs for long lines, since DL/DLR has steadily gotten more crowded since the 70s for two reasons:
    a) the population of California has greatly increased over the years.
    b) the AP system has allowed these locals to come back over and over during the year for pennies on the dollar.
    Hey, I would get an AP in a heartbeat if I lived in Cali. Can't blame you guys for that. But I can see why you would want to scapegoat the FP system, when the APs are the real culprit.
    Last edited by disneyfann121; 05-31-2009 at 03:39 PM.

  4. #49

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by disneyfann121 View Post
    I was not a victim of the FP system. I was able to get on most rides with a reasonable wait time. For the most popular ones, like Space and Indy, I was able to do those more than once thanks to FP.
    And I think it's great that you see it that way. People have yelled at me before when they were unable to use an Indy Fastpass because we were down for the night. The complaint was that they didn't do anything... all the other ride experiences were viewed as "wasted time" while waiting for Indy. I related this conversation in the other thread. So in that respect I am glad you had a great time and did what you really wanted to do. In regards to Nemo you were in part a victim of Fastpass and I'll explain in a moment.

    As for Nemo, it's well known that the long lines for that ride are due to popularity (it's the newest ride at DL) and slow loading. Wait times are all about the popularity of a ride, and have little to do with FPs. That was true -- and common sense -- before the system was introduced, and it's true now.
    The main reason for Nemo's wait time is it's popularity. It's brand new, not everyone has been on it, so they line up to see it. The sub capacity is actually decent, as is their load time. The simple fact is the supply can't keep up with the demand, so you have to wait to see it.

    The interesting thing about Fastpass is that it allows you to defy the laws of Physics. It essentially allows you to wait in two lines at once. Because of this people are more willing to wait in a long line. They view that wait as an "investment" because they need to spend that time regardless before they can use their Fastpass. If you take away this investment then people will only wait in a line if they feel it is worth the experience. In the case of Nemo that could be the difference between a 75 minute wait and a 45 minute wait.

    I remember going to DL on a weekday in the summer of '98, a year before the FP system was introduced. We only had one day in the park. We got on Space and Indy only because we got in at rope drop. We would have liked to do both rides again later in the day, but forget that. The wait times were horrible. Too bad we couldn't blame it on the evil FP system, since that scapegoat hadn't been invented yet.
    You were able to ride both at the beginning of the day when the line was comparitivly short. You also could have ridden later in the day but you did not feel the experience was worth the wait. Just now you said that Nemo wasn't worth the wait so you didn't wait. Don't you find it strange that wait times have gone up with the implimentation of Fastpass? Rides are older, but the wait time for them is more then what it was in the late 90's and early 2000's. People are willing to wait longer because they have a vested interest in killing time between Fastpasses. They see a 75 or 90 minute wait as a chance to see one attraction, while buring time on a Fastpass for another. Remove that investment and people will wait based on what they value to be worth the wait. Without Fastpass time becomes valuble, as evidenced by the times when the entire Fastpass system was down and peope wouldn't wait 60 minutes for Indy... or 75 minutes for Space.
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  5. #50

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    For all you locals, imagine that you are a tourist, there were no Fastpasses, you come in on a July weekend and you only have 2 days to do both parks and you want to ride as many rides as possible. Don't you wish you had Fastpasses now? Even if the other rides without a FP have slightly longer lines, it doesn't overcompensate for the fact that you are NOT waiting in a two hour line.

  6. #51

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by AidensDaddy View Post
    I do have to agree with you on this. Before FP was brought into the picture, if you were to do the big rides, or say even the entire mountain range and Indy, you'd have to do them when the park first opens. Everyone would be running to Space or Indy at rope drop. People still do that of course, but now with FP in the picture, you can either do one of 2 things if you do Space Mountain first thing at opening:

    1. Grab a fastpass and then just go on Space Mountain.

    2. Grab a fastpass and then go on something else, like Nemo or Peter Pan, or just go have breakfast somewhere.

    Now with Fastpass, it gives guests - Annual Passholders and One Day Visitors alike - the convenient option to PLAN AHEAD!!! They can then go on it at any other time during the day and go on something else. In reference to the other thread, perhaps they could lighten up the restrictions a little bit. Limit the amount of fastpasses a person can get on a particular ride per day. Like say a person can only get 2 FP's on those rides per day, per visit. Say at rope drop, you get a FP for Space Mountain. Thats your first of 2 freebies. And you can't get another one for say an hour or two. But you're free to get another FP for another ride like Indy, Buzz, Autopia, Splash, Roger Rabbit, or Thunder. (Hard to believe those are the only rides that have it now. Use to be more.) But once you've received two on each of those rides, you're blocked for the rest of the day. But it still gives the guest the option to plan ahead. THAT is the convenience of fastpass. Disney just needs to provide a larger number for all guests.
    It forces you to plan ahead, not give you that option. You could always plan ahead and if you were smart you would. Now if you don't, you're not going to get the most out of your trip. Anyway, I'm done with this debate, I'm not going to waste anymore time on this. The people who want it the most are the ones it hurts the most, so you'll get what you deserve until Disney finally removes it, which I'm growing more and more confident they will.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

  7. #52

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    I would like to see some numbers from the general public about the popularity of Fastpasses.

  8. #53

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    I still stand by the notion that the lines are generally longer, and that FP's run out quicker, the park reaches capacity on some days and that parking gets filled up becasue the increase in attendance. That due to free on your birthday and the increase in sales of the passholders, due to monthly payment allowment. Before the allowance of monthly payments on passes, you'd have to sum up a lot of money in one payment for a pass or you just didn't get one. I mean, still walking out of the park at 11:30 at night, the ticket booths are still open with guests at the windows. What are they buying at that time of night? Annual passes. Hey on the bright side, the premium passes in Florida, or over $600. Probably because there's 6 parks, instead of 2.

  9. #54

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    It forces you to plan ahead, not give you that option. You could always plan ahead and if you were smart you would. Now if you don't, you're not going to get the most out of your trip. Anyway, I'm done with this debate, I'm not going to waste anymore time on this. The people who want it the most are the ones it hurts the most, so you'll get what you deserve until Disney finally removes it, which I'm growing more and more confident they will.
    Please don't be implying that I'm not smart. And please choose your words a little more carefully on here before you start an arguement. It doesn't force anyone to plan ahead, it allows a person to plan ahead. FP gives a person more time to do more rides that don't have it and still do the more popular rides that do have it.

  10. #55

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    I don't want to get involved in a FP war here. I actually hardly ever post at all. I have this account, but mostly I just log on here every few weeks, scan for interesting stuff...you know. However, there are a few things I want to touch on here:

    1. Front-line CMs, like the ride operator you spoke with, are generally not given the inside scoop on all of Disney's upcoming plans and policies. He certainly would not, I repeat NOT know as fact about a complete removal of Disney's FP system long before it was made public. Only upper management knows that for sure in advance. Also his attitude about it doesn't reflect Disney's attitude. You cite his "Oh well, deal with it" attitude (which is a problem if he really did show that attitude) as proof that Disney is taking the heartless corporate giant stance on this of crushing people for fun, but how is one extremely low-level employee representative of corporate motivation or attitude?

    2. If this decision was made, it wouldn't be simply a greed thing. Many people would consider it good customer service because they feel that FP is too flawed.

    3. The removal of FP would not increase the wait times at current FP attractions. Because the Standby line has to be held up to allow FP users ahead, putting all those FP users in one single line with everyone else would result in a physically longer line that moved quicker, but assuming rider count and capacity both remain the same, the time spent in line would theoretically remain the same. However, one thing to remember with FP is that it kinda works by holding your "space" in line while you stand in another line. So FP users can appear in "two" lines at once in a way: your physical presence in a non-FP line while waiting for your FP window to open, and your virtual presence in the FP line that is being held by your FP. So really, line lengths are increased. Add in likely efficiency losses due to complexity, and you can see how average wait times are more likely to be longer with FP present.

    3. Omnimover rides, including the Little Mermaid ride, tend to be people eaters. There is just one long contiuous flow as the vehicles cycle non-stop, loading, traveling, and unloading. Given this efficiency, FP may not be neccessary in this particular application and may even make things worse, so theidea that LM won't get FP is more likely than the complete removal of said system.

    4. Looking at recent history, Disney is being more careful with what rides do get FP. It used to be they threw it on anything, regardless of wait times. They have since removed it from Pirates and non-Holiday Mansion, and didn't include it on the subs (due to issues related to the space to put two queues and efficiency questions) and Calfornia's Mania (don't know why). The program is shrinking, no doubt, but my hunch is that it is just that - smaller and more focused.

    5. FP is really application specific. In my experience, it works absolutely great on some rides and not-so-nicely on others. It seems to be used more in California (where regulars like APs really know the system well) and less so in Florida (where you're more likely to be asked "how much do those Fastpass things you have cost?"). So keeping with point 4, expect to see Disney recognize that and put it on rides that would allow FP users to significanty cut down on wait time without killing inherent efficiency.

  11. #56

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by ICe101 View Post
    For all you locals, imagine that you are a tourist, there were no Fastpasses, you come in on a July weekend and you only have 2 days to do both parks and you want to ride as many rides as possible. Don't you wish you had Fastpasses now? Even if the other rides without a FP have slightly longer lines, it doesn't overcompensate for the fact that you are NOT waiting in a two hour line.
    If you are arriving in July then I have no sympathy for you, with or without a Fastpass. Fastpass will make the lines longer, which is already on top of the long lines... but it was your choice to show up around that time! The beginning or the end of Summer would be far better then showing up in the middle of it... so again no sympathy from me. Enjoy the heat, enjoy the crowds, I'd rather stay home.

    For anyone who thinks that is a comment of an arrogant local it's not. I hold the same opinion when I travel. I specifically pick slower times if possible to ensure I can do what I want to do. It may not be full on "off season" but I will get as close to it as possible. I have no sympathy for those who don't plan and get stuck with holiday or summer crowds.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneyfann121 View Post
    The bolded quotes are bogus. I remember what Fantasyland lineups were like long before FPs. They were bad then, and they are bad now. We went to DL a lot in the 70s and early 80s. We never even bothered trying to get into Fantasyland rides later in the day. Forget that, you had to wait at least 60 minutes for a 2-3 minute ride. Again, this is long before FPs became a popular scapegoat.
    I have a family of four little ones, the oldest is 6. They don't do Indy, or Space, or Big Thunder. But in Fantasyland everyone I spoke with in line for Peter Pan had a Fastpass for one of the above. I even overheard several comment about how they could get a Fastpass and then burn some time in the lines in Fantasyland taking their little one on the attractions. This isn't on a 1 day visit... this is over, and over, and over, and over... People are more willing to tolerate longer lines when they know they have a Fastpass that can't be used until X Time anyways. My family made a specific choice as to if the wait was "worth it" because we didn't have a Fastpass. We're local, we can always come back and often did. Other vacationing families don't have that option.

    Maybe some AP holders would rather blame FPs for long lines, since DL/DLR has steadily gotten more crowded since the 70s for two reasons:
    a) the population of California has greatly increased over the years.
    b) the AP system has allowed these locals to come back over and over during the year for pennies on the dollar.
    Hey, I would get an AP in a heartbeat if I lived in Cali. Can't blame you guys for that. But I can see why you would want to scapegoat the FP system, when the APs are the real culprit.
    You forgot c) the boom in international tourism started in the mid 90's and continues to this day due to developing economies and expendable income worldwide.

    I am not blaming Fastpass for long lines. The lines would be there regardless, based on what individuals deem "worth the wait". I am blaming Fastpass for making the lines longer, both by stopping the Standby queue and by encouraging people to wait longer to "kill time".
    Last edited by techskip; 05-31-2009 at 03:57 PM.
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  12. #57

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by ICe101 View Post
    I would like to see some numbers from the general public about the popularity of Fastpasses.
    I would be more interested in the wait times with and without Fastpass. Because those would demonstrate the effect Fastpass has on an attraction... not how popular it is.

    I know Disney has these numbers because I handed Indy's portion to them during the week the Fastpass System was down. Our documentation, and supporting documentation from other Fastpass attractions, were instrumental in the removal of Fastpass from Pirates, and the limited release of Fastpass on Haunted Mansion. The thought was that if it had that much of an effect on our queues, then the effect on queues from higher capacity attractions was even worse. When I left Big Thunder was under consideration for Fastpass removal as well.
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  13. #58

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    I just came back from a trip to WDW and the TSMM has fastpass there. The stand by time was 90min,the return time for the FP was at 6pm and it was only 11am! When we got in line it didn't look long because not all of the switchbacks were open but it was about 90min wait and it was because of all the stop and go of the line. The CM's have to stop the stand by line and let the FP go so making the wait longer. I am all for the FP to go away forever!!!

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post

    I am not blaming Fastpass for long lines. The lines would be there regardless, based on what individuals deem "worth the wait". I am blaming Fastpass for making the lines longer, both by stopping the Standby queue and by encouraging people to wait longer to "kill time".
    This is a pretty good point here.

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    It leaves me to wonder this scenario......



    A theme park created and built with the FastPass idea completely in mind. This said theme park is built in an area where there is room to build and expand. Each "E" ticket ride is built to allow room for it's queue to allow both a standby and a fastpass side. And also installing a "merge" point somewhere in the queue to where some stand by guests can be allowed to go into the FP side, as is on some points at some Disney rides. Would the effect of this process be better, allowing shorter lines? Or would it be actually worse, showing how FP is a faulty system and idea? Or would it just all boil down to "supply & demand", the shorter the lines, the more enticing to guests, upping attendance, and therefore making the lines longer? It brings to mind as both an AP and a former CM, that some lines at Disneyland were made to "look longer" to play on guests thought of "not wanting to wait in a long line", so it would all balance out. They would run the queue, cut off certain points, making it look longer than it actually was. At least, that's how it used to be a couple of years ago.

    Interesting scenario though, as it is. Brings a good question.

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