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  1. #121

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Yep.

    To me the big head-shaker of Fastpass is its underlying come-on: Something for Nothing. Fastpass' psychological appeal is the concept that you, yes you, can go to the head of the line. That you can ride your favorite ride ahead of other people. That you don't have to wait. And that there's no cost, no downside, no problem.

    The unspoken promise of Fastpass is a perfect fit for our times: I Can Be First! None of that hoi polloi first-come-first-served-wait-your-turn stuff, I have a piece of paper that confers privilege! No matter how much data is provided that FP is conceptually flawed and that is harms the overall DL system, I won't believe it, because I know it works for Me!

    (Note: no offense is intended to folks who use Fastpass; my opinion of the psychological attraction of Fastpass is directed at the concept of Fastpass itself, not the people who use it.)



    I know. If they just started a new program called Speed Load that did absolutely nothing, but claimed it was a benefit to wait times, there would be this huge outcry if it was eliminated, even after it was revealed as a hoax. We'd hear all kinds of great stories of how aweful it was before Speed Load based on one visit during the middle of the summer 15 years ago.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
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  2. #122

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Tech-You have been asking what people do when the FP are no longer available. I thought I would throw my 2 cents into the ring and chime in and answer your question.

    In the interest of full disclosure I understand both sides of the debate and tend to fall somewhere in the middle. I think the concept might be a good one. The execution might be flawed. As with anything there is an opportunity cost which has been wonderfully described here. There are times where I would rather stand in 2 half hour lines than a single 1 hour line. I have to admit I have been guillty of thinking that "if I am standing in another line while I have a FP then the line is shorter for the people in the Standby line." However I didnt know about all the 15 min queue times and the like before reading this thread. I do use fastpass as deemed "necessary" by the group I am with to ensure we get to ride our favorites more than once. And thats usually on the busy busy days. But then again I am only there for 1 or 2 days per trip (2 max per year and generally off season). BTW I only recently learned from this site that the return time is generally never enforced. In the event that I have a fastpass I would make sure that we did return on time.

    That being said, in the event that fastpasses are no longer available I have learned how to read the crowds fairly well. I know that Pirates (not a FP ride I know) will not be 1:30 min wait all day long. I'll skip it only to return later when its 15-30 min. Peter Pan, also a non FP, will generally always have a long line especially by mid morning so we try and hit that one up early. I know that the space line can get long and as my wife and I always ride it before we head home we plan accordingly. We will check in on the standby times as we walk by the entrance or the board on mainstreet and make sure we keep track of time. We also tend to stagger meals either early or later than the conventional times to take advantage of the dining rush. We also choose to go on some rides during parades, fantasmic, or the fireworks as so many people are preoccupied with those events that they arent necessarily in line. Doing all of this greatly reduces our need for FPs.

    I know that the general tourist or someone not familar with the park may have trouble identifying the crowd patterns and will rely on the FP IF they even know how to use it or what it is. I have seen so many people question what it was or how it works. We all have our own methods but I tend to bounce back and forth between lands rather than follow the cluster in a land by land approach (but that can be an amazing way to experience the magic mind you).

    I will admit though that blazing through the queue after the merge is rather unfullfilling in that the queues (at least the well done ones) are part of the attraction. I miss watching people scream in the spike room on Indy. I for one think that the themeing and queues attention to detail make ToT much more successful than its Paridise Peir counterpart.

    I wonder though how the ridemax software is affecting this. If you have ever seen or used it (I havent but have friends who swear by it) it seems to exploit the fastpass system fairly well. Since I have no first hand knowledge of the matter I will refrain from commenting but would love to hear from those who do.

    Okay so take my 2 cents and add $3.49 of your own and get yourself something good at your local java establishment
    If you liked the above posting then my name is Joel. If you didnt my name is Julie and I work on the monorail.

  3. #123

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    I know. If they just started a new program called Speed Load that did absolutely nothing, but claimed it was a benefit to wait times, there would be this huge outcry if it was eliminated, even after it was revealed as a hoax. We'd hear all kinds of great stories of how aweful it was before Speed Load based on one visit during the middle of the summer 15 years ago.
    Fastpass isn't so much a gimmick as it is an actual experience. The sell is that you get to be treated like a VIP and directed to a much shorter line unlike a lot of other people. When you really boil it down that is exactly what it is. People like to feel important, they like to be a VIP. The catch is that you will have to wait for your allotted time. While waiting it is likely you will endure longer lines at a variety of other attractions because other people are being treated to the VIP service.

    As I said it has been my experience, both as a CM and as a Guest, that the individuals who are most vocal about being stopped in a Standby line have a Fastpass for another location in their pocket (and proudly show it when you start to explain how Fastpass works). It seems to be a great system as long as they are the VIP and not the one waiting in Standby.

    Disney created this VIP service. They have selectively been phasing it out. It is questionable if they are merely "tweaking" the system or if they plan on fully phasing it out. From a financial standpoint a phase out will save Disney money in material, maintanence, guest control, and labor. From a logistical standpoint it will lower attraction wait times park wide and allow the extensive internal queues of attractions to be fully utilized thereby clearing some walkways. This would potentially allow for an increase in attendance (not sure but Liver belives it would and it somewhat makes sense). From a Guest Relations standpoint Disney would be removing a VIP service with no replacement. It doesn't matter how logical it's removal would be, people want to feel special.
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  4. #124

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    This...
    Quote Originally Posted by JChapinCP View Post
    That being said, in the event that fastpasses are no longer available I have learned how to read the crowds fairly well. I know that Pirates (not a FP ride I know) will not be 1:30 min wait all day long. I'll skip it only to return later when its 15-30 min. Peter Pan, also a non FP, will generally always have a long line especially by mid morning so we try and hit that one up early. I know that the space line can get long and as my wife and I always ride it before we head home we plan accordingly. We will check in on the standby times as we walk by the entrance or the board on mainstreet and make sure we keep track of time. We also tend to stagger meals either early or later than the conventional times to take advantage of the dining rush. We also choose to go on some rides during parades, fantasmic, or the fireworks as so many people are preoccupied with those events that they arent necessarily in line. Doing all of this greatly reduces our need for FPs.
    Is exactly how visitors to Disneyland, both locals and tourists alike, have navigated the park for over 4 decades. The fact that it confuses and hurts the ones it should benefit most (first time tourists) should be enough for many to adocate it's removal. Thank you for being honest, and for proving that an experience is not ruined just because you don't have a Fastpass. Locals generally go home if it is too crowded... tourists do what they've done all along, they read the crowds.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


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  5. #125

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    people want to feel special.
    I remember when the park still used ride tickets and you could buy multiday unlimited passes. you would walk up to the ride show your pass and walk in. then they did away with ride tickets, no more special feeling.

  6. #126

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    The old "pre" FastPass days at WDW were normal 30-45 minute posted lines on most attractions, with the lines moving at a steady pace. Even a 1.5 hour wait for SM was bearable because it moved constantly. Wait times were always shorter than the posted time (a 30 minute actual time was posted at 45 minutes-I think the old formula was to add on 50% of the actual wait time to the posted time), which psychologically made you feel like "that line wasn't bad at all". If you walked just slow enough, you would actually never stop walking. Now with FastPass, every standby line feels like a theatre attraction queue, where sometimes you don't move an inch for 10 to 15 minutes at a time. Psychologically it makes the line even worse. And on top of this, the wait times always seem "longer" than posted.

    I say "down with FastPass" and get people in the lines that they "want" to be in, and out of the lines that others want to be in.
    Last edited by steve2wdw; 06-01-2009 at 07:47 PM. Reason: for clarity

  7. #127

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by steve2wdw View Post
    The old "pre" FastPass days at WDW were normal 30-45 minute posted lines on most attractions, with the lines moving at a steady pace. Even a 1.5 hour wait for SM was bearable because it moved constantly. Wait times were always shorter than the posted time (a 30 minute actual time was posted at 45 minutes-I think the old formula was to add on 50% of the actual wait time to the posted time), which psychologically made you feel like "that line wasn't bad at all". If you walked just slow enough, you would actually never stop walking. Now with FastPass, every standby line feels like a theatre attraction queue, where sometimes you don't move an inch for 10 to 15 minutes at a time. Psychologically it makes the line even worse. And on top of this, the wait times always seem "longer" than posted.

    I say "down with FastPass" and get people in the lines that they "want" to be in, and out of the lines that others want to be in.
    Agreed and Disneyland is the same thing at times too for some of the attractions. To me Splash Mountain feels this way in the standby Line.

    Also, I miss the days of enjoying the full line of Indiana Jones, as in being able to see all the details in it.

  8. #128

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mouse View Post
    It's harder for people who live around the park to understand. I have to book time off of work(I'm also a contract worker I don't get paid days I don't work), pay quite a bit to fly down, pay for hotel, pay for food, pay for park tickets. It's not just a day trip or a weekend drive, it's an ordeal that is quite expensive already. What are we talking about for ride times? To me at some point my money is better off spent elsewhere. To be honest I would probably wait and read forums such as these to gauge ride times for the first year or two before planning a trip to go back if fast passes were taken away.

    Under those circumstances, it seems to me that it would behoove you to plan your trips to coincide with less crowded days. Generally, w/o FP, most lines move quite adequately, even IF they are longer. The two percent of guests that are clever enough to manipulate the PF system to their advantage and achieve more than 3 or 4 a day are the exception. And even they have to get up early and start at rope drop. And even when you are able to get a FP for certain attractions (those rare ones that do actually have them), it may be a eight-hour wait until your time becomes available (at 12:30am).

    For most people, the park experience is not a regimented pre-planned event, but more of a casual enjoy-the-experience-as-it-happens outing. Without FP, their wait in line will undoubtedly feel less of an ordeal, even if the lines may be longer, as the lines will move faster.

  9. #129

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    I am all for removing fastpass, orlowering the count of attractions that have them.

    Midway Mania and Nemo would not have benefit from fastpass. Instead it would have made the standby lines longer.

    Other attractions that should remove fastpass include

    Buzz lightyear
    Star tours
    Mullholland Madness and
    Splash mountain

    and Indy because it completely destroyed the way the queue was used

    biggest fastpass mistakes were

    Bugs life 3d
    muppets 3d


    I know that for a while they were considering keeping it as a benefit for guests of a Disney hotel as well as good neighbor hotels.


    If they were to keep fastpass then they need to clearly post the rules for them and educate the CM's to be more strict on how fastpasses are used.

    If the pass says a certain hour then they should be used during that time. The system has so many problems that there are times when guests with fastpass show up after the time on the tickets. then at that point the CM's have to allow more fastpass guests in so that that line does not get to long and overlapped the next alloted time sequence. All this does is make longer standby lines with more cranky guests.

    The fastpass system is also being abused by guests that by packs of them on ebay from guests that save them and then sell them. If guests are willing to pay outrages prices for tickets they could get at the park then maybe Disney should just sell an unlimited fastpass for extra
    Last edited by Baloo; 06-01-2009 at 08:53 PM.

  10. #130

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by Baloo View Post
    I know that for a while they were considering keeping it as a benefit for guests of a Disney hotel as well as good neighbor hotels.
    The trouble with that is they would have to keep and maintain all the wasted queue space and additional CM's required to control the system. While the number of guests actually using the system would probably be significantly reduced, it would add an aura of discontent from those who would be held back while those people get to cut in line. While most people would excuse that since they understood that FP is available to everyone, this hotel guest only program would not go over as well.

  11. #131

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by WestsideCM99 View Post
    I doubt that DLR will phase out FP if it continues to stuff guests into the parks with these special park offers. The parks need FP more than ever now to keep the masses appeased.

    They will have much harder time stuffing any more people into the park if they KEEP FP as those people, who would normally be in the lines, would be displaced into the streets, shops and restaurants, making them even more crowded.

  12. #132

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by planodisney View Post
    As I have stated before, if the DLR want's to solidify it's position as a locals only park, then get rid of Fastpass. I am partial to DLR over WDW, but getting ride of Fastpass would mark the end of DLR being an option for me and my family and all of our business would be at WDW.

    I know alot of vacationers would feel the same way. You can argue whatever you want about it making standby lines longer or clogging up whatever, but the bottom line for my family is that it wouldn't be worth spending the kind of money it takes to fly out to Anaheim, pay for a hotel and park tickets, to sit in line for 45%-65% of our vacation.

    Well, in that case, it would provide another reason how the removal of FP would reduce lines.

  13. #133

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by ICe101 View Post
    Also wondering is it possible to create a dual station for the Submarines. Of course this would mean retrofitting the current structure, creating a bridge, making new track, yada yada yada. But could it possibly be done in a future retheme. You would make the second loading platform an exit dock and the 1st loading platform and entry dock. Then do the same on the other side. This should speed up loading and allow the capability of adding more Subs correct?
    The loading situation is not a problem because of the station layout, but because of the new “safety” requirements that limits the CM’s movements to the point of extreme inefficiency. Also, from what a CM told me, the requirement for them to travel in “packs” of two or three subs slows down their overall trip time. So, it’s more of an operational problem.

    I don’t think that there could be any way to reconfigure the track layout to perform in the manner you suggest, even IF they were willing to spend a the money.

  14. #134

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by bfdf55 View Post
    Well, in that case, it would provide another reason how the removal of FP would reduce lines.






  15. #135

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    Re: FastPass - Will Disney Get Rid of It? The Latest Rumor from the Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by steve2wdw View Post
    Now with FastPass, every standby line feels like a theatre attraction queue, where sometimes you don't move an inch for 10 to 15 minutes at a time. Psychologically it makes the line even worse. And on top of this, the wait times always seem "longer" than posted.

    I say "down with FastPass" and get people in the lines that they "want" to be in, and out of the lines that others want to be in.
    The psychological impact of a line that "stops" and "goes" is another reason why I believe that FP exacerbates the situation of individuals angry about waiting in line. If it comes down to it, a strong majority of individuals would declare that they do not like waiting in line. However, constant movement and keeping the line indoors can really contribute to a wait time that is perceived to be shorter.

    If FP isn't going to be eliminated from the parks, then I want Disney to seriously re-evaluate the rides that have it. The fact that BLAB has FP is something that quite frankly frustrates me. Because of FP, the line for Buzz Lightyear is longer than it ever should be, and prevented any chance for the line to have a better indoor section. Think about it, had the ride not implemented FP, the distribution and return areas could have been used for more indoor queue. Instead, roughly 15 feet separate the Fastpass merge point to the doorway to the attraction. I would jump up and down for joy if they removed FP from this ride.

    Honestly, the repeatibility factor for the ride is decreased for me. Without FP, getting on BLAB over and over again is definitely a possibility.
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