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  1. #31

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    Re: STOP!: DCA's Carthay Circle Theater tower isn't good enough

    Why isn't it good enough? Are you one of those disney fans that prefers giant hats and wands obstructing the view of the TRUE weenie? I think it's gonna be awesome to see the theatre Snow White debuted in....

  2. #32

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    Re: STOP!: DCA's Carthay Circle Theater tower isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    Here's a link to the permit status on the Red Car roundhouse foundations:

    Status: Permit Status

    Here's the one for the building itself:

    Status: Permit Status

    It sure looks like they are building it to me.
    Most of the "activities" on those permits are not completed yet and are scheduled for 7/6. Yet, construction work has started in the northeast section of Timon Lot near ToT (separate from the pipe work on the east side of Timon) where we think the Red Car roundhouse will be. If it is indeed for the Red Car, wouldn't whatever they're working on, even if it is putting in pipes or grading the foundation require the permits to be completed?

  3. #33

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    Re: STOP!: DCA's Carthay Circle Theater tower isn't good enough

    I don't really buy it as being radically different. Hollywood is pretty darn close to the same concept of Toontown and it's main drag is almost just as small and narrow. There are character meet n greets on the boulevard, character shows, and then the big Playhouse Disney show. With the Hyperion down the street and Award Wieners on the side, that one street is probably one of the busiest places in the park aside from Main Street.
    True on most accounts, but this is one out of three potential areas that the Red Car would be running through (the other being BVS and maybe Carsland). My point wasn't about it operating around kid-friendly attractions, my point was more about it being an a) incredibly short ride as a whole in a space that didn't need transport, b) Toontown being an extremely crowded place to begin with and c) kids running loose.

    To address these points individually:

    a) The Red Line will operate on a much longer route, and this distance involves makes the Cars Land - BVS route more logical than Mickey Fountain to Roger Fountain.

    b) You are right about the main drag of HPB being about as narrow as Toontown, but you did say "main drag" of HPB ... that land has another side area (where Muppets and Monsters Inc and Backlot Stage are), nearby attractions lining the street that consume guests en masse (Hyperion, Disney Animation) and will have two outlets on either end ... one leading to BVS, the other leading to Carsland by ToT ... this all helps the congestion of the "main drag." Admittedly, Toontown has NONE of these benefits. People are stuck where they are, more or less, in an elaborate playground facade. The poor traffic flow that is present in Toontown won't exist in HPB.

    c) Like I said, kids running loose are a problem in both DCA and DL, everywhere, but is much MORE concentrated in Toontown due to its very nature and attitude of many parents while in the land. You cited that with character greetings, Playhouse Disney, Disney Animation and other attractions, this will be an equal problem. Not so. Fantasyland's main castle courtyard is currently more kid-friendly and enticing than HPB ever hopes to be for the little ones ... and you still don't see as big of a problem there with kids and their parents as you do in Toontown. Bottom line, it's a problem everywhere, but not so much outside of Toontown, therefore it won't contribute to the demise of the Red Car any more than its amounted to the demise of the Horse Drawn Streetcars.

    I think given the option, Disney would have eliminated the Main Street vehicles altogether. They keep them due to the huge nostalgia factor and the potential outcry from the fans. As it is right now they operate VERY limited hours though, usually closing up for the day around 2 or 3 pm.
    This isn't too much different from normal operation. They have always closed up the MSV about a half hour to an hour before parade times along Main Street. You figure 2 parades a day ... one around 2:30 one around 5:30 or so ... that would leave about a 2 hour operation in between parades to bring back the MSV ... not really worth it. After the last parade it isn't too long before dusk, when they normally cease operation anyway.

    As much as I love the concept of bringing back the red cars, I see this as being a huge outlay of money for an attraction that will have a small capacity and very limited operating hours and the HUGE potential to cause injury. It would almost be better to operate them for show and not as an attraction at all.... but then how do you justify the cost?
    I'm confused ... how would operating them for show along the tracks (without passengers) make it any safer for the people walking around?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojave View Post
    Most of the "activities" on those permits are not completed yet and are scheduled for 7/6. Yet, construction work has started in the northeast section of Timon Lot near ToT (separate from the pipe work on the east side of Timon) where we think the Red Car roundhouse will be. If it is indeed for the Red Car, wouldn't whatever they're working on, even if it is putting in pipes or grading the foundation require the permits to be completed?
    Next to the due date for the activities is "Time of Inspection", so I'm guessing that the "date scheduled" means date of inspection, which would explain why we see the construction now. Permits don't only include plans, they include actual inspection, which is what these linked plans are. I imagine they already received the clearance to build, but of course, they have to build now so everything like route to plumbing and whatnot can be inspected by 7/6.

    Robert Cook I'm not refuting your main point but just making a little nitpick here. WDW's Main Street does not appear to be any larger in area than Disneyland's in any respect. If there are any differences, they are not significant (WDW's Main Street might be a tiny bit longer and DL's Town Square might be a wee bit wider, or maybe my aerial photos are slightly off in some way).
    Good point! Sorry, I was mainly picturing their Central Plaza in my head when I wrote that, which is much bigger/sprawling than ours.
    Last edited by WJNM; 06-23-2009 at 06:51 PM.

  4. #34

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    Re: STOP!: DCA's Carthay Circle Theater tower isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    Here's a link to the permit status on the Red Car roundhouse foundations:
    That's a permit. That doesn't show that they're actually building it yet. Are there any photographs that show the foundation starting?

  5. #35

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    Re: STOP!: DCA's Carthay Circle Theater tower isn't good enough

    Pezz was nice enough to remind me of it. I'd forgotten... there should be a few Trolley Threads on here that go into a great deal of detail about trolley operations. I also cited the San Pedro line and how much it cost for them to do that. The threads are likely locked and dusty but if anyone wants to do a search there is a lot in them.
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    Re: STOP!: DCA's Carthay Circle Theater tower isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    That's a permit. That doesn't show that they're actually building it yet.
    That's true, it is permit ... which is exactly what he said is was. But the permits do show that inspections are due on 7/6 ... which would lead one to believe that they are building it, otherwise they have a LOT of work to do in the next two weeks.

  7. #37

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    Re: STOP!: DCA's Carthay Circle Theater tower isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by WJNM View Post
    Next to the due date for the activities is "Time of Inspection", so I'm guessing that the "date scheduled" means date of inspection, which would explain why we see the construction now. Permits don't only include plans, they include actual inspection, which is what these linked plans are. I imagine they already received the clearance to build, but of course, they have to build now so everything like route to plumbing and whatnot can be inspected by 7/6.
    Admittedly, I don't know how to read permits but I can't imagine the "time of inspection" actually means inspecting work done. These are permits to DO work, not permits to inspect FINISHED work. Additionally, the second permits show some items completed on 6/16. I'm pretty sure that means that only that part of the permit process has been completed, not the work.

    And there's no way they will be finished with the Red Car building, even just the foundation and steel, within the next two weeks - they only started construction about 2 weeks ago.

  8. #38

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    Re: STOP!: DCA's Carthay Circle Theater tower isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojave View Post
    Admittedly, I don't know how to read permits but I can't imagine the "time of inspection" actually means inspecting work done. These are permits to DO work, not permits to inspect FINISHED work. Additionally, the second permits show some items completed on 6/16. I'm pretty sure that means that only that part of the permit process has been completed, not the work.

    And there's no way they will be finished with the Red Car building, even just the foundation and steel, within the next two weeks - they only started construction about 2 weeks ago.
    Permitting is a process, which includes construction and various inspections. Ever here of occupancy permit? Kind of like that.

  9. #39

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    Re: STOP!: DCA's Carthay Circle Theater tower isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by WJNM View Post
    Permitting is a process, which includes construction and various inspections. Ever here of occupancy permit? Kind of like that.
    OK, but then how can the permit be scheduled to route to the Fire Department for inspection on 7/6 when they've at most just started the foundation?

    Note: I'm not trying to argue the point, merely looking for real info. We could sure use some more photos by darkbeer or mintcrocodile of that area!

  10. #40

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    Re: STOP!: DCA's Carthay Circle Theater tower isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    That's a permit. That doesn't show that they're actually building it yet. Are there any photographs that show the foundation starting?
    You're right, I don't know what's actually under construction, I'll have to check about that. In fact, this is plan check status, thus these items don't actually have a permit yet, it means that the city will be done reviewing the drawings on the 6th. They likely will have corrections and then the permits would be ready to pull as soon as those are done. My point in showing that was simply to show that they are proceeding with the project, not that it was physically under construction, although, I believe it is. They probably pulled a grading and utility permit so they could get started now. I can check, it's just a lot of permits to sift through. (Which is pretty exciting for DCA!)
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  11. #41

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    Re: STOP!: DCA's Carthay Circle Theater tower isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    You're right, I don't know what's actually under construction, I'll have to check about that.
    The original comment said that it was being built as we speak, but it seems that no one is really sure what is being built (and truthfully that's as it should be).

    And technically, even if the building was being built, that doesn't mean that they would go through with the attraction. A maintenance facility could mean a lot of different things.

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    Re: STOP!: DCA's Carthay Circle Theater tower isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    The original comment said that it was being built as we speak, but it seems that no one is really sure what is being built (and truthfully that's as it should be).

    And technically, even if the building was being built, that doesn't mean that they would go through with the attraction. A maintenance facility could mean a lot of different things.
    It does say Red Car Maintenance Facility. But it actually looks like it is not yet under construction, it looks like they pulled several permits for "utilities for park expansion" and are doing the work under those permits. It also appears that the work at the east edge of the Timon lot is likely a Kitchen/Office building which they pulled a foundation permit for recently. There are also a few other backstage buildings going into that area, another maintenance building, a new "entertainment" building, and a custodial/mutli-purpose building. It's tough to tell, but it looks like the work near Monsters and the work south of ToT will be the entertainment and custodial/multi-purpose buildings and the Red Car and general Maintenance buildings have not been started. That's my best guess anyway based on the available info.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
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  13. #43

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    Re: STOP!: DCA's Carthay Circle Theater tower isn't good enough

    Based on what I have heard, the area directly south of Tower is slated to become a new entertainment production facility and they are building a new security facility next to Monsters Inc.

    Now granted I'm not in the blue sky cellar every sunday, but I dont recall hearing at all where this red car maint facility was going.

  14. #44

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    Re: STOP!: DCA's Carthay Circle Theater tower isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Based on what I have heard, the area directly south of Tower is slated to become a new entertainment production facility and they are building a new security facility next to Monsters Inc.

    Now granted I'm not in the blue sky cellar every sunday, but I dont recall hearing at all where this red car maint facility was going.
    That could very well be ... like I said, that's only what I've heard second-hand. I never claimed exclusive knowledge. But that plot of land, or somewhere near it, could be plausible, especially if Red Car goes beyond ToT and into Carsland.

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    Re: STOP!: DCA's Carthay Circle Theater tower isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojave View Post
    OK, but then how can the permit be scheduled to route to the Fire Department for inspection on 7/6 when they've at most just started the foundation?

    Note: I'm not trying to argue the point, merely looking for real info. We could sure use some more photos by darkbeer or mintcrocodile of that area!
    I'm not trying to argue either, just speculating - so no worries!

    I have no idea what "route to the fire department" would mean ... if it's just fire department access approvals or if it's actually routing the paperwork there to inspect potential plumbing for sprinklers or plans for building safety.

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