STOP!: DCA's Carthay Circle Theater tower isn't good enough

[Smontalvo1489]

Originally Posted by Robert Cook

I still clearly remember what I thought when I saw the film footage of the premiere of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs for the very first time: that the theater looked really nice and was highly evocative of the era. It doesn't look like modern movie theaters, and had it been more plain or less striking to me at the time, I would have remembered that, too.

Is this the one you were talking about?

YouTube - Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs - Movie...

[Uncle Bob]

Great video, I think it will work. It's not the most bold choice, but it's the right one.

[stevo505]

Originally Posted by flynnibus

Yes, and it's a great example of the level of detail that was put into the building to reproduce the original. There there are the other elements like reproducing the hands and feet in the concrete. The theatre anchored the concept of Hollywood, and the ride it contains connected the idea of celebrating those classics.

It's also why people want it's view and position BACK in the park.

I agree with you 100%. While I have never been to WDW, I can tell that the Chinese Theater reproduction is of great detail and beauty, just from pictures. I do not understand why in their right minds did the Imagineers decide to put a gigantic and ugly Sorcerer's hat there and block the view of what could be a great icon for DHS.

Originally Posted by Nautilus

So will DCA's new Buena Vista street; As you make your way down the street, you pass pleasant, tame, nice, yet attractive buildings, pass under the Hyperion/Monorail bridge, and BOOM! Carthay with it's large tower spire and castle like architecture.

I don't see what the drastic difference is, it's pretty much the same formula at all the parks--Streets with medium buildings, then a large impressive "weenie" at the end of it, a formula DCA will use. It looks like it'll be a tall building, and anything tall somehow almost always tends to look impressive.

Good points.

To those who don't like the Carthay as DCA's icon, what would you rather have? I can't see what would be a better fit. The Carthay replica will be large, beautiful, and more likely to draw you in rather than a Sun with a fountain.

[Robert Cook]

Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins

To me, the Carthay Circle at DCA is iconic of the fundamental difference between DCA and Disneyland.

Disneyland gave us the timeless fantasy of Walt's ever-youthful imagination and heart. DCA gives us the places that were around when Walt came to Los Angeles.

No wonder there's such a lack of emotional connection.

That's a fundamental reason why I have such a problem with DCA: its theme. But if that's going to be its ostensible theme, then the Carthay Circle Theater is the ideal icon for the park.

Originally Posted by jcruise86

Reproducing the Carthay is a timid choice.

The very idea of the park is timid. Keeping the California theme is timid. Doing so and failing to really make it about California is timid. The whole theme park makeover plan in and of itself is just plain timid--cowardly even. The choice of central architectural icon, however, is perfect for what WDI is trying to accomplish. What would you have them do, create an enormous, bold, ostentatious example of architecture? Personally, I'm not that into architecture per se--symbolism is far more important. They picked the right icon for what they claim to want the park to represent, no question. Everything else is still in question.

Originally Posted by jcruise86

Grand?
Did you mean "bland"? That canyon in Arizona is grand.
Have you ever been enticed to photograph the reproduced Chinese Theater at WDW?
Not "so bad" and "just fine" aren't good enough.
Disney should try to surpass the castle at WDW's Magic Kingdom and EPCOT's Spaceship Earth, if not in scale, then in breathtaking beauty.

That's not how I view Disney theme parks, and I happen to think that Sleeping Beauty Castle is fine as it is, too.

Originally Posted by jcruise86

Long ago at Knott's they did an amazing job of reproducing Philadelphia's Independence Hall, but even this most worthy reproduction hardly stands out on a list of Orange County's "must see" places.

So what? It is what Walter Knott wanted it to be, just like his park when he was still living. Why does it have to be "grand?"

Originally Posted by jcruise86

On page 233 of The Pixar Touch, Roy Disney's letter to Michael Eisner is quoted, criticizing--among other things--"The timidity of your investments in our theme park business. At Disney's California Adventure, Paris and now in Hong Kong, you have tried to build parks 'on the cheap' and they show it and the attendance figures reflect it."

Yes, these parks didn't have enough attractions to keep people interested and occupied, especially the locals, of course. The amount of money invested was small compared to what was and is expected from these parks. And by the way, spending more on a grand central icon would mean less left over for interesting things to do.

Originally Posted by jcruise86

(I think the Paris refers to the studio park more than Paris' magic kingdom.)

That would make sense, yes.

Originally Posted by jcruise86

Much has been made about how Disney is now committed to buying its way to a more worthy DCA, but given that the primary purpose of the Disney company is to provide as large an annual bonus as possible to Mr. Iger (exactly as it was to Eisner in his last years), I am skeptical. An Imagineer told me of how proud they were of an attraction they had designed, then they were depressed to be told they would receive $ bonuses if they came up with a cheaper version.

Cheaper doesn't always mean inferior. What counts is their ideas, and for DCA they're shooting blanks.

Originally Posted by jcruise86

Mr. Iger's spouse, Willow Bay, most gifted in front of a camera, is a senior editor of the Huffington Post, so she is obviously trying to live a meaningful life and not just spend her days shopping with the tens of millions her husband takes each year. I hope Bob Iger takes her lead and sees his stewardship of Disney as a grand, long-term opportunity to boldly present capitalism at its glorious best, as Walt Disney did.

Walt Disney thought in grand terms, but that doesn't imply a grand architectural icon in the middle of each park specifically. What you and others describe seems more like Donald Trump's kind of thinking rather than Walt Disney's. The Disneyland Resort is not Las Vegas! And yes, I prefer Disneyland's castle to that of Magic Kingdom Park in WDW. What I want is big ideas and the courage to follow them through, not showy physical monuments to one's own sense of greatness.

Originally Posted by Smontalvo1489

Is this the one you were talking about?
YouTube - Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs - Movie Premiere 1937

Yes, that and some still photos. I think people will be curious about the building, as they will automatically associate it with the castles in Disneyland-type parks, yet it's so different.

[filmfreak11]

I think Circle Theater works fine on the outside. I have my own longer thoughts for the inside offering(s).

Sorry for getting off topic, but this is regarding Trolleys in the park:

RECAP: Toontown - crowded with families and smaller children PLUS stroller parking basically everywhere.

RECAP: MS USA - crowded due to main entrance/exit way. Closed for parades and fireworks in the afternoon for the rest of the day. Restaurants and stores are relatively designed for crowds to be OFF the street.

RECAP: BVS/ Hollywood - crowded due to Hyperion Theater exit, Playhouse Disney exit, meet and greets, and Award Wieners.

MY COMMENT:

1) I still think it's possible to run Toontown's Trolleys as a showpiece with characters, meet n greet, and photo-ops but not as an actual transportation vehicle.

2) Trolleys in BVS/Hollywood could still work. Who said anything about everything that is now will remain when the trolleys open?

Award Wieners I believe would need to be redirected on the side of MuppetVision 3D theater so the crowds would be off that main drag considering from the concept art the current area will be a station stop.

Character meet n greets may be directed inside the "Hollywood Studios" area where Muppets and Monsters are now. Creating traffic in that area and bringing more crowds to the attractions and away from the main drag.

I'm sure there can be a predicted schedule of when to train the trolleys or not due to the crowds exiting the theaters. Hyperion is most likely going to stay, it would seem another matter to Playhouse Disney how long that might last.

And the biggest consideration to take, there will be no major parades in the main entrance/exit area. So the trolleys have the possibility of staying up longer in the evening but closing right before WOC ends and expecting large crowds to exit through this area.

IN ADDITION: A brand new trolley system was just built for the Americana at Brand in Glendale, CA. There are Youtube videos of it.

[filmfreak11]

Originally Posted by Mojave

I know we're way off topic, so I'll be brief - here's a rendering showing the Red Car MF just south of the Hyperion Bullpen.

I was waiting for someone to bring this up again.

Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins

[Carthay Circle Theater is a flaw] as a Disney theme park weenie.

What about giving the public what they NEED instead of what they WANT?

Besides, why built a Chinese Theater when it's only a few miles away? That's the flaw in DCA's original design in the first place: why build something that is in driving distance of the local area? Florida is pretty far from the Chinese Theater. But now there's talk of a legal issue of the Chinese Theater being the park icon which may be why there is a giant hat blocking views.

Why not build something you can't just drive up to anymore?

Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer

Why not put the Carthay facade over the HYPERION theater? That would make sense.

Carthay to me is equal to MS USA's Opera House and Sleeping Beauty Castle. Hyperion Theater is equal to Fantasyland Theater.

I think the idea of "Walt Disney's California Adventure" is a theme for BVS, WD Plaza, and HPB. Outside of that, it should be an adventure is different areas of the mountains, sea, desert, and farming in different eras. Much like how MS USA is inspired by Walt Disney's hometown of Marceline, the entire park is not based off of this one idea. MS USA is also used as a barrier between reality and fantasy and tell the guests you will be entering into someplaces and some times different different than the norm... same goes for DCA's new entrance.

I also like how the main entrance stretches its theme into a land with "real attractions". Whereas MS USA is a gateway full of shops and restaurants with the addition of an Opera House, train, and carriages.

The thumbs down on the Circle Theater is also probably because there is nothing "solid" or "impressive" inside that has been discussed. I think a new "Blue Sky Cellar" attraction would be in the lobby then going further inside a new "Disney Animation" exhibit. The current "Disney Animation" building now perhaps be used as a new version of "The Great Movie Ride" with only Disney live-action features. Of course I have more thoughts but that's the basic gist.

[techskip]

The more I think about the Carthay the more I believe it is the right choice from a "Disney History" standpoint... but overall I think people won't "get it". People will see it as a theater, and keep going. My "issue" is that the theater will become another beautiful facade in a park littered with them.

Personally I would like to see an original show in a highly detailed movie palace interior... I know it will never happen... but that is what I would love to see.

[Mr Wiggins]

Originally Posted by filmfreak11

What about giving the public what they NEED instead of what they WANT?

Wait -- forget flawed weenies in a Disney theme park, it sounds like you're talking about a Disney theme park that's flawed as a Disney theme park!

I got the perfect place: go south on Main Street, through the railroad tunnels and past the ticket booths. Ya can't miss it.

[bigwavedave]

Is anything going to bein the Cathaway, or is it going to just be a fausad?

[Smontalvo1489]

Originally Posted by bigwavedave

Is anything going to bein the Cathaway, or is it going to just be a fausad?

It is supposed to be a new Resort Preview Building (Blue Sky Cellar kind of thing). There is more info on the first page.

I personally wished that they kept the Walt Disney Story, just because there was no more fitting place IMO to tell the story.

So the partners statue was axed right?????

[Awe_inspired]

Here's my two cents: I cant think of anything more appropriate as the center piece for a park dedicated to the life of Walt Disney than to pay tribute to the project he was most passionate about when he died. At the end of Buena Vista Street I'd love to see a replica of what E.P.C.O.T. was meant to be. A scale model of the main tower and surrounding area around the same size as Sleeping Beauty Castle. However, I'd have leading architects compete to redesign the exterior to make it cutting edge. I would love to tour an exhibit about Walt's vision for the future. A simulated 3D ride on a wrap-around screen through the city's indoor areas and outdoors would be fascinating. Granted, it's a different world now, with malls, international food courts, etc. But, his plan for a city is something still in Tomorrowland.

Walt Disney's Original Epcot Project

[stevo505]

^ Agreed. I think that theater is special to him because it was where his first full-length animated feature was premiered.. I'd like to see some Snow White references inside the Carthay at DCA.

[PragmaticIdealist]

MerlinJones had the right idea when he spoke of the Hyperion Avenue studios serving as the focal point for the entrance area.

The vista should terminate with a replica of that structure.

[Peoplemover Priit]

The real one is gone, broke, bye-bye. Besides half of the people right now wouldn't know what it is and because of that they'll go check it out.