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  1. #1876

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker VI

    We will all just have to wait until 2012 for Radiator Springs to be built. You say the idea is lackluster but you have no clue because you never have stepped foot inside the land, so therefore you have no idea what to expect just what you think it will be like.
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  2. #1877

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker VI

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    It doesn't say that... but I also don't think they should set the boundaries for the land within those of the movie world. They can't simply do Route 66 stuff because Route 66 happens to be within the movie... they have to do Route 66 AS IT APPEARS in the movie. By locking the theme into Cars, they have locked future development, whatever it may be, into the world of Cars. That is pretty limiting. You can't do anything that isn't Cars(TM) (not just cars), without breaking theme. Had they don't a more general Route 66 theme for the whole land, then they could have added Cars themed stuff as well as gone elsewhere in the world of cars and Route 66.

    That being said, I am very excited to see Carsland and what they do with it. It has potential as one of the most immersive lands they have ever created. I just wish it wasn't limited to Cars.
    This i agree with, that they might be locking themselves to much to a specific look of the land if they are not careful with how they interpret it in a reall 3 dimensional world.
    Its the other arguements that i do not agree with,

    Its not Disney
    It has no imagination or lacks imagination

    Those are the arguments that i do not agree with. The one thing i do see with the direction of the land is that WDI taking into consideration how to seamlessly blend real route 66 architecture and landscape with the ones in the movie. I also think they did a great job in doing this in the actual movie and are confident that they will be able to accomplish that with the land.

  3. #1878

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Matterhorn Boy View Post
    I saw it once. That was enough. The amount of times one sees a movie has no bearing on whether it belongs in a theme park it has nothing to do with.
    Yes it does! The person who knows way too much about movies and how they are made can't ever enjoy the movie the same. Same goes for this: the more information you have about a movies details, the more you can nit pick it apart. The only reason you are making this argument is because you've studied (ya, maybe you haven't watched it more than once but I'm sure you've read right here about it on THESE FORUMS) the movie way more than somebody who just entered the park and saw Cars one late Sunday night on ABC.


    Quote Originally Posted by Matterhorn Boy View Post
    This is another issue entirely, and only goes to prove my point. Since Walt Disney died Tomorrowland has essentially become "Sci-Fi Land" and has very little to do with what the world will be like in the future. In this misconstrued Tomorrowland, anything with even a glimmer of space theme to it belongs, and the land has lost virtually all of its soul and identity in the process.
    Walt Disney doesn't care: He is dead. Get over it. Everybody who visits Disneyland doesn't care either, trust me. Otherwise, people wouldn't be visiting. Half of this is about experimentation anyway. There is no right or wrong, there is only money. You build something good, you keep it and if not, you throw it out. Besides, fresh new things are good, like lands dedicated to one thing. You can't defeat the latter opinion now just because you don't like it or Walt said "NO!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Matterhorn Boy View Post
    So Disney should just dumb down their product in accordance with their audience?
    Since when has setting a movie a little out of place dumbing it down for the audience? When you can explain 'Star Tours' place in Disneyland without jumping around my question, you will understand.

  4. #1879

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Baloo View Post
    This i agree with, that they might be locking themselves to much to a specific look of the land if they are not careful with how they interpret it in a reall 3 dimensional world.
    Yes it is Limiting per say, I agree, but what other possible things could Disney do on Route 66 with the Cars characters? It isn't like they can't tie in the Cars characters into anything else that has nothing to do with the movie. If they wanted to do a drag strip for example, what is to stop them from getting Mater or McQueen or any new character from the movie in on the action.

  5. #1880

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Baloo View Post
    Disneyland should not always be the bible of theme park building, if it was then parks like Disney sea would not have been built. That park took the idea far beyond what Disneyland is and added another great park to the legacy of the company
    Disney Sea is still built essentially in the model of Disneyland, using broad themes to house its attractions just like Disneyland. Mermaid Lagoon is perhaps the only exception to this rule, and IMO is a case of OLC picking up some bad habits from TDA. Everything else in the park is polar opposite from what is going on with DCA and Cars Land.

    Disney is known for its marketing blitz, and for its immersion in theming. ther is no way that Cars Land will ever be a temporary addition that will fade in popularity. Even the lands that i mentioned in Universal with their less memorable character aproach have and will live in peoples minds forever whether it be because of the emmersive theming or the well produce line up of attractions.
    I really doubt that. After 10 years Islands Of Adventure is quickly shuffling its themes around new and shinier franchises. Cars Land will have a limited shelf life, and probably won't exist in 20-30 years, if DCA is even still around then in a recognizable form. The Fantasyland attractions Walt built were already based on classic stories firmly entrenched in people's minds. In 200 years people will still know who Peter Pan and Snow White are, but Lightning McQueen will be a footnote in history. It's like building a skyscraper on quicksand.

    If hundreds of people could still get excited for the return of a Captain EO I doubt that a well built emmersive land with three unique attractions will fade from the minds of guests.
    I think people are excited for Captain EO because it reminds them of a time when the park wasn't a synergistic nightmare.
    The connection of the land lies with the idea of route 66 and the CAR culture that is tied to the state.
    People took that road to reach one specific place and that was California.

    why not emmerse yourself into the idea that you are visiting California and then take the mother road out of the state for just a bit and surround yourself with a land just beyond the borders that reminds us of the simple life.
    So you want the guest to journey to California (The Park) and then go to Cars Land to look back on the simple life they left behind? Is Cars Land like an anarchist state in the larger area of California Adventure? The Cars attractions could have easily been transplanted into an environment that was uniquely Californian, offering the chance for other ideas to springboard off of a larger theme. Instead, it offers a very limited movie-based experience.

    Isn't that what we do when we walk from mainstreet into adventureland then into New Orleans square? We leave all sense of rationale behind and believe that at one point we are in middle America and then all of a sudden transport ourselves into the dangerous jungles of the amazon.

    Why is it so difficult to do the same at CAlifornia Adventure. we enter California and discover a state that many of us are to young to remember and just beyond its borders we see a landscape that beckons us to explore.

    there are areas near the borders of California not to far where i live where you could actually stand and see the gorgeous deserts of Arizona without leaving this state.
    Cars Land doesn't represent reality, it represents a reality as depicted in a CG animated film with talking cars. There is no broader theme like Adventureland or Main Street to go on. It would be like Walt building "Peter Pan Land" instead of Fantasyland...no room for expansion beyond the limited vision you've set for the area.

    This "no rules" level of creativity just doesn't interest me. Disneyland was built to mimic while at the same time enhancing reality. Cars Land does nothing but sell Lunchboxes, waiting patiently for the time when another lunchbox-selling franchise comes along to replace it. There's no creativity in the idea, no matter how much theming they add to hide that.

  6. #1881

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Pizzaandfries View Post
    Yes it does! The person who knows way too much about movies and how they are made can't ever enjoy the movie the same. Same goes for this: the more information you have about a movies details, the more you can nit pick it apart. The only reason you are making this argument is because you've studied (ya, maybe you haven't watched it more than once but I'm sure you've read right here about it on THESE FORUMS) the movie way more than somebody who just entered the park and saw Cars one late Sunday night on ABC.
    So I guess I just know too much for my own good? Too much about the geography and culture of the state I inhabit to know when a film doesn't represent it? Why not add Pirates to Tomorrowland, if that's what the audience wants? Why even have themes, if they're irrelevant to the needs of the corporation?

    Walt Disney doesn't care: He is dead. Get over it. Everybody who visits Disneyland doesn't care either, trust me. Otherwise, people wouldn't be visiting. Half of this is about experimentation anyway. There is no right or wrong, there is only money. You build something good, you keep it and if not, you throw it out. Besides, fresh new things are good, like lands dedicated to one thing. You can't defeat the latter opinion now just because you don't like it or Walt said "NO!"
    Then why not just tear both parks down, if none of what came before matters? Build new parks dedicated to new shiny franchises! Jonas Brothers World...my god, it'll be beautiful!

    Since when has setting a movie a little out of place dumbing it down for the audience? When you can explain 'Star Tours' place in Disneyland without jumping around my question, you will understand.
    The audience shouldn't be the ones dictating the experience. Disneyland had a creator, and ever since then it's been a bunch of suits taking surveys on what's popular and building attractions in accordance with their data. The minute you take the creator and the creative vision he's set out of the equation, all you have left is just flavor of the month merchandising fodder. Star Tours doesn't belong in Tomorrowland, that's the answer to your question.

    It amazes me how many fans of Disneyland seem to hate the very things that make the park what it is. Mind boggling.

  7. #1882

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Matterhorn Boy View Post

    The audience shouldn't be the ones dictating the experience. Disneyland had a creator, and ever since then it's been a bunch of suits taking surveys on what's popular and building attractions in accordance with their data. The minute you take the creator and the creative vision he's set out of the equation, all you have left is just flavor of the month merchandising fodder. Star Tours doesn't belong in Tomorrowland, that's the answer to your question.

    It amazes me how many fans of Disneyland seem to hate the very things that make the park what it is. Mind boggling.
    I have to disagree with this part of your post. Disneyland was created for one purpose to make the audience happy. So why not cater to me, i mean heck it is my vacation and if me and the mass audience want certain things in the park then build it. There are millions of visitors in the park you cant please them all, but unfortunately to find out what the guest wants then you have to poll and go off obvious popularity characters and ideas. IF they didnt cater to us then they should just build everything like a six flaggs with no theme and save themselves tons of money. In reality thats when you lose the magic when you stop themeing and carrying about the public and the park. Walt wanted one thing a place for familes to come and be happy together, not to showcase his creations.

    Im pretty sure 1.1 billion dollars isnt for the suits! pretty sure its all for us and especiallyl me
    "I love Mickey Mouse more than any woman I have ever known."-Walt Disney

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  8. #1883

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker VI

    Quote Originally Posted by disneyNEWdad View Post
    I have to disagree with this part of your post. Disneyland was created for one purpose to make the audience happy. So why not cater to me, i mean heck it is my vacation and if me and the mass audience want certain things in the park then build it. There are millions of visitors in the park you cant please them all, but unfortunately to find out what the guest wants then you have to poll and go off obvious popularity characters and ideas. IF they didnt cater to us then they should just build everything like a six flaggs with no theme and save themselves tons of money. In reality thats when you lose the magic when you stop themeing and carrying about the public and the park. Walt wanted one thing a place for familes to come and be happy together, not to showcase his creations.
    Of course the goal of the park is to entertain, but that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be any sort of creative vision involved in creating the attractions in the parks. Attractions like The Haunted Mansion were built years after guests clamored for a "Spook House". What Disney created was much more and far more lasting. They built something the audience didn't realize they wanted. They created a new experience, the result of which can't be thought up and created using merely poll data and yardsticks on what's trendy and popular.

    Disney is becoming more and more like Six Flags, not because they stopped theming their attractions, but because they stopped caring about how these attractions fit into the larger themes the park is supposed to represent. Theme has become practically irrelevant in the theme park.

  9. #1884

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker VI

    Yet rides like GRR, ToT, Soarin' and in the other world Expedition Everest are thrill E-ticket original rides, built post walt. Is it also wrong for their characters to be portrayed Walt did it and he even had Tinkerbell his own character open almost every show, he built a land for his caracters and one of the most world famous rides in the world Splash is based of a movie.

    You cant critique Carsland just the idea not the concept and not the land, because until you step into their world you have no idea the potential or the ability to have a magical influence; regardless if it will or will not envoke you.
    "I love Mickey Mouse more than any woman I have ever known."-Walt Disney

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  10. #1885

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker VI

    Anyone else find it odd that Disney picks the one Pixar film where humans don't exist to base an entire land on? Are the talking cars going to say "WTF" when the first humans enter the land? With everything designed for cars, will the land be something like Mickey's Toon Town, or will they de-emphasize the alternate Car universe aspect and staff the stores with humans instead of talking car animatronics?
    it's a sale of candy and a sale of plush, it's a sale of toys and disney stuff
    there's so much that we sell, that it's time we tell, it's a plush plush sale!

  11. #1886

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker VI

    Now, California Adventure DOES need this expansion. It was/is a wierd mixture of all things West Coast. I think that its layout is part of the problem it will face for most of its future. With no flow, and simply a loose "California" idea to tie it all together, it does not carry that feeling we expect in Disneyland, Epcot, Tokyo.. etc. Can anybody name one way in which CA has any kind of rhythm or flow to it? While the additions do not address that issue, they do indeed bring it up into the ranks of Disney Parks. The little touches and immersive details are what ultimitly will take you out of Anaheim of today and into the worlds being designed for our entertainment.

    To say that Disney is just doing it for the money is innacurate, but it is extremly obvious (by looking at food prices) that they are still very tight on their finances, and no project no matter how amazing will go forward without making sence in the terms of some fiscal return.

    In years to come, I think that DCA will evolove into a place of its own. Each "land" more segrigated from the next until it seems to be multiple parks in one shot. Maybe that is what will make it so great. We all sometimes want to be able to jump from place to place and that may very well happen here. But when little CA gets on its feet, expect a much more cohesive 3rd park with better protected sightlines and flow.

    IMO, I think Carsland (lame name alert) will be an immersive and interesting land. I just think that they could have gone with something better that doesn't limit it to one genre. Sure the arguements which say it is not in CA are good but whats worse is that once complete, they are bound to it until money comes up to redo the area again. This problem resonates throughout the rest of the park everywhere except for the future National Park area and HPB. The lands are so locked to a very specific theme that they cannot easily be changed or added to without difficulty or repetitiveness. Disneyland's open themes leave room for interpritation which means that a Mountain can share turf with fairytailes, and Dr. Jones can find a temple near the rivers of the world. Where is that in CA?
    Last edited by Trevor; 08-11-2009 at 12:03 AM.

  12. #1887

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker VI

    Quote Originally Posted by disneyNEWdad View Post
    Yet rides like GRR, ToT, Soarin' and in the other world Expedition Everest are thrill E-ticket original rides, built post walt. Is it also wrong for their characters to be portrayed Walt did it and he even had Tinkerbell his own character open almost every show, he built a land for his caracters and one of the most world famous rides in the world Splash is based of a movie.
    None of those are really based on existing properties other than TOT, which isn't based on any particular Twilight Zone episode.

    And IMO, GRR doesn't belong in your list and neither does DCA's version of TOT. I can drive over to Great America and get basically the same experience that GRR offers in the raft ride there. TOT at WDW is an E-ticket experience that is much more than a falling elevator.

    I have nothing against movie rides, as long as they can coexist in the larger themes the park constructs. And let me tell you, I doubt many guests were clamoring for Disney to build a log ride based on "Song of the South". An idea like that came out of creativity, not poll data.

    And BTW, Walt Disney didn't create Tinkerbell. J.M. Barrie did.

    You cant critique Carsland just the idea not the concept and not the land, because until you step into their world you have no idea the potential or the ability to have a magical influence; regardless if it will or will not envoke you.
    I can critique an idea before it comes to fruition, the same as I can read a movie script and know it won't make a great movie...which happens all the time. This whole wait-and-see approach ignores the fact that once the attraction is built it doesn't go away for a long time and can't be quickly forgotten and set aside like a movie. See Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage.

  13. #1888

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker VI

    Walt Disney doesn't care: He is dead. Get over it. Everybody who visits Disneyland doesn't care either, trust me. Otherwise, people wouldn't be visiting. Half of this is about experimentation anyway. There is no right or wrong, there is only money. You build something good, you keep it and if not, you throw it out. Besides, fresh new things are good, like lands dedicated to one thing. You can't defeat the latter opinion now just because you don't like it or Walt said "NO!"
    I think your missing matterhorn boy's point. The point is that walt disney did not need to use surveys and polls to figure out what people liked in order to build a ride based off data pulled from surveys. Through Walt's own creative vision he was able to make rides that not only stood the test of time but also became staples of almost every disney park in the world. Disney used to tell people what was cool, not create cool rides based off the trend of the moment. For example, the haunted mansion and pirates of the caribbean were not rides that were created as a result of polls pulled from consumer surveys. And yet even though they werent, they have stood the test of time and are probably one of the most recognizable and beloved rides of all the disney theme parks, or any theme park for that matter. They were created out of the genius of walt and his imagineers. If walt had surveyed guests and built rides based off what consumers wanted, haunted mansion or pirates would probably never have been created.

    Where is the originality or creativity in trying to go off consumer interest? This is all about the art here. What if all the great pioneers of all art forms, from picasso to mozart to michael jackson just based all their creative genius in their respective fields on what consumer taste was at the time? They wouldnt define, change, nor originate their products we love so much today. The same goes for disneyland and dca. If disney creates lands and rides based off the current trends, how is that creative? How does that stand the test of time? Its so easy to just create a themed land based off a pre existing franchise because, well, it already exists. Trying to come up with a unique, generally themed land and figuring out what kinds of themed rides fit within the land takes much more creative execution then simply having a pre existing franchise to go off. It wouldve been much better if carsland was soley a route 66 themed land. Despite this, im still very excited for the rides and the land.

  14. #1889

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Matterhorn Boy View Post
    The Fantasyland attractions Walt built were already based on classic stories firmly entrenched in people's minds. In 200 years people will still know who Peter Pan and Snow White are, but Lightning McQueen will be a footnote in history. It's like building a skyscraper on quicksand.
    Please, a lot of people will know Lightning McQueen because they're going to keep on making toys on him. I have seen so many commercials on him. And apparently he's still popular because people still know him. My younger neighbor next door's favorite Disney character is Lightning McQueen because he has all of the toys. The only other characters he knows or likes are Mickey, Goofy, Donald, and Pluto.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matterhorn Boy View Post
    And IMO, GRR doesn't belong in your list and neither does DCA's version of TOT. I can drive over to Great America and get basically the same experience that GRR offers in the raft ride there. TOT at WDW is an E-ticket experience that is much more than a falling elevator.
    That is just ridiculous. First off, I have been on tons of raft rides and non of them are as well themed are as much fun. And the TOT at WDW is horrible. Yes the moving elevator is a little cool, but the drops suck. I have been on TOT at WDW and the drops are not as nearly as good as the one at DCA.

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker VI

    Wow.. this has degraded into stuff that is just so far off base it makes my head spin.

    The only thing I'll add is.. surveys are not asking people 'hey, what would you like to see?'. A survey TESTS something... where you can test acceptance of a concept or you test the result of something the user has experienced. Surveys are used to TEST and VALIDATE things - not dream up concepts. Yet another mob-think scapegoat is forming here around surveys when you don't even understand what they are asking.

    And Walt was not clairvoyant. He built a theme park in part because people kept wanting to come to the studio and he even considered building a park there. Walt also did a lot of stuff that did NOT stand the test of time. He did not bat 1.00 - nor did they work in some vacuum of input. Stop idolizing and get back to reality.
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