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  1. #46

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    Re: Disney Legacy and the Public: Is the public to blame for a mediocre Disney?

    i think disneyland has gotten stale on a few notes but the most irritateing is the" me too" attitude they have developed... stitch the cartoon series was a direct awnser to pokemon with the monsters stitch had to help catch.
    tinkerbell and her friends are there to combat other fairy toys like barbie faritopia and the bratz fairys.

    that being said there is this. i walk out of startraders and what do i see..? those stupid plush balls looking like disney charectars, teeshirts that have absolutely nothing to do with tommorow land let alone star tours, goofy hats and all...thats where disney loses its magic and the mediocrity begins... in the merchandise dept...

  2. #47

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    Re: Disney Legacy and the Public: Is the public to blame for a mediocre Disney?

    [quote=Jesser-pie;1055415069]
    Quote Originally Posted by Walt Jr. View Post

    The Lack of stores having individuality.
    quote]

    I absolutely, agree!!!

    Anyone remember there store in Frontierland (that has a connection to the store in Adventureland? Its right across the shooting thingy majigy?)

    Well i rember that store used to have roxy stuff, but it was unque roxy stuff that tied in well with the location...
    i toteally agree my dear

  3. #48

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    Re: Disney Legacy and the Public: Is the public to blame for a mediocre Disney?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walt Jr. View Post
    Now I don't know if this is completely true or not but I believe that Disney survey cast members look for people who look like first time guests who aren't frequent visitors or AP's. From there comes the argument about the average guest who doesn't know better and therefore states that things like Celebrate are "the best they have ever seen".
    I'm not sure what I look like to them, but I keep getting asked to take the survey, two instances of which occurred immediately after I passed the gate still holding my AP in my hand. So this must mean that they're interested in what APers have to say, right? Well, I don't know about other APers, but I've never received a single one of those surveys through email after signing up. Assuming no strange technical difficulties (I don't use a spam filter), either they're skipping me because I currently have an AP or they're skipping me specifically. The latter doesn't seem very likely with a common name like mine. Next time, I'll just tell them to go to MiceChat to get all the feedback they can handle.

  4. #49

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    Re: Disney Legacy and the Public: Is the public to blame for a mediocre Disney?

    Quote Originally Posted by sunrider View Post
    i think disneyland has gotten stale on a few notes but the most irritateing is the" me too" attitude they have developed... stitch the cartoon series was a direct awnser to pokemon with the monsters stitch had to help catch.
    tinkerbell and her friends are there to combat other fairy toys like barbie faritopia and the bratz fairys.

    that being said there is this. i walk out of startraders and what do i see..? those stupid plush balls looking like disney charectars, teeshirts that have absolutely nothing to do with tommorow land let alone star tours, goofy hats and all...thats where disney loses its magic and the mediocrity begins... in the merchandise dept...
    You mention the "me-too" attitude and I think I know what you are talking about. Disney has really condescended to the teen-group demographic lately and bias that they have alienated a lot of the family group.

    As for merchandise, Disney has always had merchandise outside the theming of the lands. I remember buying a spinning LCD that spelled things and it was bought on Main Street. Something like that should be in Tomarrowland.


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  5. #50

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    Re: Disney Legacy and the Public: Is the public to blame for a mediocre Disney?

    Focus groups, surveys and the like are all in place to attempt to minimize risk when designing a attraction or show while attempting increase revenue all to raise quarterly earnings to satisfy shareholders. Maximum profit with no regards to long term. Why do we rarely see any original films these days except from Pixar and now the newly revamped Disney Feature Animatio? It is because studio executives just want to rehash stories and ideas that they feel will "sell"

    The interesting thing will be to see what todays children think of Disneyland in 20 years. I do not think they will be as excited as those who were raised in Disneyland from 1950->late 1980's of course we have people who only experienced the disneyland from the 90's to present who were raised by parents that shared the magic with the children.

    How many more generations will that magic inherited by old school Disneylanders and passed on to there children last? Especially when the parents of the future will have only experienced the "mall-ified" disneyland, pay to shop land with generic "disney parks" merchandise and devoid of soul. I know this is something that the current Lasseter team and saviors of the Disney brand are going to do there best to rectify but there are still the shareholders and the MBA's and "marketing guru's" in control, the force is strong with them.

  6. #51

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    Re: Disney Legacy and the Public: Is the public to blame for a mediocre Disney?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walt Jr. View Post
    What if they liked both? My guess is likely a good deal of them did. If this is so, then why would Disney not run both. Likely to cut costs, choosing the cheaper of the two.
    I couldn't tell you why they cancelled the parade. But judging from the circumstance with the economy, it's a good guess that it was probably financial.

    The guest will still like it and it saves Disney money. But it isn't the best they can do.
    The best they can do creatively or the best they can do financially? There's a big difference there. Creatively Disney could create six new parades this year, but from a financial standpoint and from a logistics standpoint they certainly couldn't run that many parades a day.

    Disney clearly had to cut costs due to the financial crisis.

    Now I don't know if this is completely true or not but I believe that Disney survey cast members look for people who look like first time guests who aren't frequent visitors or AP's. From there comes the argument about the average guest who doesn't know better and therefore states that things like Celebrate are "the best they have ever seen".
    Well if the implication there is that the opinion of the first time guests is more important than that of the Annual Passholders than I would agree with Disney on that one.

    We can only guess this, but my natural guess is that they aren't asking for more. Because if they only cared about movie rides then we wouldn't see originals with the popularity that they have now. I don't think that Disney would even ask guests that question, just find out how much they like the newest tie ins.
    So if guests are telling them that they like the tie ins, then why wouldn't they want to make more? It isn't really an issue unless guests start telling them they DON'T like the tie ins, but that isn't happening is it?

    A lot of people would be thrilled to see a new original attraction likely, nobody knows for sure.
    Disney knows.

    But when you see the people lined up for something like Pirates of the Caribbean before the movie tie ins or before Small World's Characters and see how many are still enthralled, the only guess could be yes.
    Weren't the lines for those attractions longer after the character additions?

    But we need to look at the demographic Disney is interviewing and see if they are only interviewing them and finding out their opinions to justify their additions. Disney is a large company, they are smart enough to do something like that. But that is just my speculation.
    But why would they do that? Why would Disney have to justify what they do? That just doesn't make sense. Even if you want to believe that they are just money grubbing hustlers, then you still assume that they will do everything that will get them the most money. Their surveys are just a way of finding out what the MAJORITY of their guests want, so they can MAKE MORE MONEY. Why would they want to fix the numbers? What possible purpose would it have?

    Until people like Tony have much more control, anything with an original storyline will not be seen again.
    What's wrong with that? People would rather ride Finding Nemo than the Submarine Voyage.

  7. #52

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    Re: Disney Legacy and the Public: Is the public to blame for a mediocre Disney?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Except for the enormous (and rapidly increasing) percentage of of visitors who were born after 1990-93 or so.
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterGracey View Post
    It would be interesting to go back in time to survey guests and compare the levels of perceived quality, in say, 1959, with the levels of perceived quality in 2009.
    Quote Originally Posted by CAspace View Post
    The interesting thing will be to see what todays children think of Disneyland in 20 years.
    This is just the way human existence works. Times change and people and society changes as well.

    We might as week go back and ask someone if Rock music was as popular in the 1950s as Ragtime was in 1890.

    Disneyland will change and evolve over time to suit the tastes and needs of it's audience. That doesn't mean that the experience has degraded any more than it means that rock music is somehow a superior form of music.

  8. #53

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    Re: Disney Legacy and the Public: Is the public to blame for a mediocre Disney?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Disneyland will change and evolve over time to suit the tastes and needs of it's audience.
    You have the active/passive vectors reversed: Disney will change the composition and evolve the expectations of its audience base over time to suit its needs, as it is doing presently.


    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    That doesn't mean that the experience has degraded any more than it means that rock music is somehow a superior form of music.
    Off the point of the core issue: by any number of pre-1995 benchmarks, Disneyland's standards of creativity, innovation and diversity in attractions, entertainment, merchandise, services and showmanship have been, and continue to be, declining by degrees.

    Evolving styles of music seems an inappropriate analogy: it may be re-experienced directly in recorded media, while the Disneyland experience pre-1995 was a live event (I understand your point, just arguing your analogy).


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  9. #54

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    Re: Disney Legacy and the Public: Is the public to blame for a mediocre Disney?

    If it wasn't for AP'ers and 2fers, DCA would have literally sank...prior to 2008 or '09. If anyone took an economic hit here, it is the company...not the guests. Therefore, Disney is to blame for it's own mediocresy in this instance.

    Most non-local guests only attend the parks once every year or two...or longer. In the past, the mediocre quality and high prices likely induced most to attend less frequently. However, the Iger/Lasseter/Jobs era has brought with it tremendous positive changes to quality at Disneyland...and DCA change is underway. Local guests that attend a local park do so because Disney remains the best park builder on Earth...even when any given park exists in a delapidated form.

    Today's Disneyland, Tokyo Disneyland and, arguably, even Disneyland Paris are not mediocre. So, the question of the OP does not apply. The public simply doesn't attend Hong Kong Disneyland...the public is not to blame for mediocrety there. One might blame medeocrety on guests that attend WDW. But, that would be rather harsh and cruel. Can't blame the public for looking for escapist fantasy fun at the world's formost family adventure centered theme park company. You can blame the guests that attend multiple times during any given year.

    Great question!
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  10. #55

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    Re: Disney Legacy and the Public: Is the public to blame for a mediocre Disney?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    You have the active/passive vectors reversed: Disney will change the composition and evolve the expectations of its audience base over time to suit its needs, as it is doing presently.




    Off the point of the core issue: by any number of pre-1995 benchmarks, Disneyland's standards of creativity, innovation and diversity in attractions, entertainment, merchandise, services and showmanship have been, and continue to be, declining by degrees.

    Evolving styles of music seems an inappropriate analogy: it may be re-experienced directly in recorded media, while the Disneyland experience pre-1995 was a live event (I understand your point, just arguing your analogy).

    Merchandise quality is taking a drastic dive. Services are holding steady, as is showmanship. Innovation and diversity of attractions has steadily increased since 1955...it's the number of attractions and upkeep that isn't keeping pace with gust expectations. Live entertainment is holding steady if not increasing. Prerecorded entertainment does not take away from that which is live.
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  11. #56

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    Re: Disney Legacy and the Public: Is the public to blame for a mediocre Disney?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    This is just the way human existence works. Times change and people and society changes as well.

    We might as week go back and ask someone if Rock music was as popular in the 1950s as Ragtime was in 1890.

    Disneyland will change and evolve over time to suit the tastes and needs of it's audience. That doesn't mean that the experience has degraded any more than it means that rock music is somehow a superior form of music.
    Have times changed? Sure. Have people's tastes changed? That's debatable, especially considering the on-going success and popularity of Walt Disney's WED-era Imagineering attractions such as Pirates of the Caribbean, Jungle Cruise, Haunted Mansion, Space Mountain, the Fantasyland dark rides, etc.

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  12. #57

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    Re: Disney Legacy and the Public: Is the public to blame for a mediocre Disney?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Disneyland will change and evolve over time to suit the tastes and needs of it's audience. That doesn't mean that the experience has degraded any more than it means that rock music is somehow a superior form of music.
    One would have to appraise the issue per park...rather than overall. At some parks, all elements have in recent years improved in quality. at other parks, some elements are in current decline..while others are not.

    WDW probably best represents the most pronounced quality decline...yet boasts the theme park industries highest attended park. Of couse, many Tokyo Disneyland Resort fans will take exception to the claim that WDW has the highest annual attendance rate...and rightfully so (due to the guesswork that goes into the stats by TEA).
    Last edited by Ride Warrior; 07-01-2009 at 08:39 PM.
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  13. #58

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    Re: Disney Legacy and the Public: Is the public to blame for a mediocre Disney?

    I'm a teen and I definately understand what Disney is going throught! It sucks! My parents are always talking about how Disneyland was when they were young and how much better it was then.
    -Tyler

  14. #59

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    Re: Disney Legacy and the Public: Is the public to blame for a mediocre Disney?

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterGracey View Post
    Have times changed? Sure. Have people's tastes changed? That's debatable, especially considering the on-going success and popularity of Walt Disney's WED-era Imagineering attractions such as Pirates of the Caribbean, Jungle Cruise, Haunted Mansion, Space Mountain, the Fantasyland dark rides, etc.
    Generally speaking, peoples' tastes for traditional attraction forms have definitely not changed. Gradually advancing technologies have caused the public's tastes to expand. Expansion in preferencees can occur without traditional appreciation declining.
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  15. #60

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    Re: Disney Legacy and the Public: Is the public to blame for a mediocre Disney?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Disney knows.
    What does Disney know?


    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    People would rather ride Finding Nemo than the Submarine Voyage.
    I whole heartedly agree.
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