Disneys July 4th Weekend Fireworks

[Mr Wiggins]

Originally Posted by WDW Monorail

I don't think it makes a difference if they alter the show for different days.

Presenting different shows on different days isn't a problem.

Advertising them as the same show is.

The question then becomes, "why?" (Circumstances beyond Disney's control, like weather? Miscommunication between the people doing the promotion and the people planning the pyro? False advertising?)

[Sir Didymus]

To all those claiming "false advertising".....were the 2nd, 3rd, and 5th shows ever really advertised to begin with? I mean I know they were scheduled online and everything, but was anything actually announced to the public?

[flynnibus]

Originally Posted by Sir Didymus

To all those claiming "false advertising".....were the 2nd, 3rd, and 5th shows ever really advertised to begin with? I mean I know they were scheduled online and everything, but was anything actually announced to the public?

Yes

Disneys July 4th Weekend Fireworks

Disneys July 4th Weekend Fireworks

[techskip]

Originally Posted by flynnibus

Yes

Disneys July 4th Weekend Fireworks

Soooo.... ummmm... yeah no where in there did they say the 4th of July show would be "extra" or that the 2nd, 3rd and 5th would be "less".

Thank you flynn I was looking for a direct Disney link online but you found it in the post.

Given that this is from Disney posted on Disney's website I think it can clearly be called false advertising!

When I worked there Disney was really big on "consistency". They wanted a consistent show. The way I see it... this would be like showing a Parade for 4 days... and on 3 days having several floats missing! It will likely come up that shows are "subject to change without notice" and someone else will bring up weather. I'd like to point out that the 2nd, 3rd, and 5th were reportedly 9 minutes almost to the second... the 4th clocked in around 14 minutes... so that's 50% more show. Since the other 3 were almost identical lengths I find it extremely hard to blame it on Mother Nature. Someone made the decision not to run the full show as promised. Personally I think that's wrong. A lot of people visited the park on alternate days specifically for this. Special visits were made, vacations were extended, people paid money to get in, bought various things, and weren't given the full show. Had I gone on any of the alternate dates I would be PISSED... because no matter how you call it they never said a word about "more on the 4th" or "less on the alternate dates"... They said they would be showing Celebrate America July 2nd - July 5th.

[Mr Wiggins]

The term "false advertising" carries a strong connotation of the intention to deceive.

Although customers clearly were deceived, in fairness to Disney and to the credibility of the forum it doesn't seem clear at this time that it was Disney's intent to deceive. Other possibilities include weather conditions, communication screwups between the people doing the promotion and the people planning the pyro, and inadvertent miswording of the advertisement.

To me the question now is, in fairness to the customers why did Disney advertise one thing and deliver something less?

[techskip]

Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins

The term "false advertising" carries a strong connotation of the intention to deceive.

In fairness to Disney and to the credibility of the forum, it's not clear at this time that it was Disney's intent to deceive. Other possibilities include weather conditions, communication screwups between the people doing the promotion and the people planning the pyro, and inadvertent miswording of the advertisement.

Just sayin'.

Please see post above yours in regards to weather. I find it hard to believe that weather played a factor in the difference in shows. In regards to any "communications screwup" that would imply that what was advertised on Disney's website was not correctly presented to the public. It is the definition of "false advertising"... be it on purpose or by mistake. Someone else specifically called in to ask and was told the pyro would be no different. This again may have been a lack of communication HOWEVER... The CM's answer was in line with what was specifically posted on Disney's website. Given the date of Al's comment, the posted information on Disney's website, the consistent weather conditions, and after viewing each show I am comfortable saying False Advertising and would go so far as to suggest it was planned (again citing the date of Al's article). People came to the park to see the full show. They spent money (be it admission, food, souvenirs etc.) expecting the full show. They were not given the full show.

Let's look at this from another perspective. The reason this was for all 4 days was because last year it was canceled... We now know for sure that the 4th was "extra" but what if it had been canceled? People would then have gotten less of a show on 2nd, 3rd, possibly 5th... Again the reason for showing it 4 days was in case it was cancelled 1 day... which again means it was advertised as a full show for all 4 days!

[»PW]

To me, it definitely looks like a calculated decision on Disney's part. They had to know that there were two different versions of the show, one the real deal and the others just Remember pyro with the Celebrate America music and even a shortened soundtrack.

Still, all four shows were advertised as the same thing. It's dishonest, and yes, false advertising.

[techskip]

I am still not sold on the "unused Remember shells" argument. I'm slightly confused as to what constitutes "unused Remember shells". As has been stated previously, the majority of Disney's shell stock is generic and used in countless other pyro shows around the world. The only way I can see it as being "Rememeber" is if the timing, altitude and choreography of multiple shells were the same. Even then the fact that Disney does consistent pyro shows would immediately make people compare any show to what was previously shown. I saw a few areas in Celebrate America which reminded me of Remember... but Celebrate America to me was a different show. Several pyro shows outside the resort that I watched this weekend used MANY shells that Remember uses. They reminded me of Remember, but I knew they weren't "unused Remember shells".

[flynnibus]

Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins

The term "false advertising" carries a strong connotation of the intention to deceive.

Although customers clearly were deceived, in fairness to Disney and to the credibility of the forum it doesn't seem clear at this time that it was Disney's intent to deceive

Did Disney ever correct themselves when the information got out? Nope. If it was not intentional - why would they not fix it?

Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins

Other possibilities include weather conditions, communication screwups between the people doing the promotion and the people planning the pyro, and inadvertent miswording of the advertisement.

See - Disneys July 4th Weekend Fireworks - we've already been down that excuse path. This wasn't VARIANCE in the show - these were different shows by design.

Now it could simply be the case of making the best of what they got. Someone could have said 'lets do the fireworks on multiple nights!' but it was already too late to actually get all they needed to do the show.. or maybe the budget simply wasn't there to do it. But the concept was liked enough to say 'well, how about give us the best you can' and they came up with a show that was beyond the normal show, but not up to the show that was already planned for the 4th. But in the compromise - no one felt it worth enough (or considered..) to name the shows differently.

More then likely it was an intentional move to avoid confusing and drawing attention to it all - after someone had already started the wheels turning but there was no way to actually deliver the 4th's show on multiple nights.

Or it even could have been a supplier issue, and they had to come up with a compromise.

Either way.. from the customer POV, Disney did not live up to its own advertising.

Oh wait.. that's been a common theme this summer hasn't it???

[Mr Wiggins]

Originally Posted by »PW

To me, it definitely looks like a calculated decision on Disney's part. They had to know that there were two different versions of the show, one the real deal and the others just Remember pyro with the Celebrate America music and even a shortened soundtrack.

That is exactly what it looks like. Which begs the question, "why?"

Why deliberately advertise something grand then deliberately deliver something less, knowing it'll make them look like they're pulling a bait-and-switch? What could be the motive for such a scam? To save a few tens of grand on pyro?

To me this one doesn't make sense, even given the abundance of shortsighted greed I've seen from Disney management.

[flynnibus]

I think its stupidity. I think they made a decision.. couldn't deliver.. and figured no one would notice... overriding those who knew obviously the rabid fans would be watching by the second to get their favorite show.

[Mr Wiggins]

Originally Posted by flynnibus

I think its stupidity.

Now, that I could believe!

[»PW]

Originally Posted by techskip

I am still not sold on the "unused Remember shells" argument. I'm slightly confused as to what constitutes "unused Remember shells". As has been stated previously, the majority of Disney's shell stock is generic and used in countless other pyro shows around the world. The only way I can see it as being "Rememeber" is if the timing, altitude and choreography of multiple shells were the same. Even then the fact that Disney does consistent pyro shows would immediately make people compare any show to what was previously shown. I saw a few areas in Celebrate America which reminded me of Remember... but Celebrate America to me was a different show. Several pyro shows outside the resort that I watched this weekend used MANY shells that Remember uses. They reminded me of Remember, but I knew they weren't "unused Remember shells".

Remember pyro is used in every Disneyland display. What made the shows on the 2nd, 3rd, and 5th different from the real 4th show is that they only used Remember shells.

It was rearranged, but the quantity and type of shells, even the castle pyro, was exactly what you'd see in a regular performance of Remember.

[techskip]

Originally Posted by »PW

Remember pyro is used in every Disneyland display. What made the shows on the 2nd, 3rd, and 5th different from the real 4th show is that they only used Remember shells.

It was rearranged, but the quantity and type of shells, even the castle pyro, was exactly what you'd see in a regular performance of Remember.

True... but the new arrangement and new choeography in my mind means a new show. They really didn't use exact Remember sequences...

Simple question if this show had been done outside of the park, at another venue, would anyone think "old Remember shells" or would they pass it off as another venue using generic shells?

Castle Pyro was the same... which may be a limitation of it's installation... but the majority of the show was timed, choreographed, and arranged differently. Had this been anywhere else I highly doubt the Remember comparison would even be made.

[1FoolishMortal]

Originally Posted by »PW

Remember pyro is used in every Disneyland display. What made the shows on the 2nd, 3rd, and 5th different from the real 4th show is that they only used Remember shells.

It was rearranged, but the quantity and type of shells, even the castle pyro, was exactly what you'd see in a regular performance of Remember.

That's not entirely true. I saw a number of non-Remember shells used during the other 3 shows.


I'm gonna have to agree with techskip on this one. What exactly constitutes a "reused" shell from Remember? It doesn't make a lot of sense to use that argument, especially when even the show on the 4th used most of the same shells from the other 3 shows (just rearranged) plus more red, white, & blue ones. Does that still make the show on the 4th a Remember rehash, or no? When do we give it a "Get Out of Jail Free" card and when do we not?