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  1. #166

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    Re: Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect vs The Army of Darkness, or the Thread 5

    Welcome to MC, Pacis! Thepic looks the same as when I took mine one July 4th. So far it doesnt seem like anything is being moved around if they were anticipating anything there....possibly going later this week but for sure in August so I'll keep an eye on that corner.

  2. #167

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    Re: Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect vs The Army of Darkness, or the Thread 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Open_at_the_close View Post
    Welcome to MC, Pacis! Thepic looks the same as when I took mine one July 4th. So far it doesnt seem like anything is being moved around if they were anticipating anything there....possibly going later this week but for sure in August so I'll keep an eye on that corner.
    Ditto that; welcome aboard Pacis. As for the photo...nope, not a sign of change since the May 9th pic, let alone the July 4 and 6 pix. The most interesting things are (1) how bare and clean that whole corner is, and (2) to me, anyway, the fact that the chair back there on the right is in the same spot as it was when the HM opened. Yes, it's original, and no, it hasn't always been in that particular corner. It's only relatively recently that it's been put back there, exactly where it was when this photo was taken:



    If nothing else, it gives you a fixed point of orientation so you can visualize exactly where the HBG stood. Is the chair's present location a pure coincidence, or something done deliberately by a CM or Imagineer familiar with this widely-posted photo and driven by hypergeekish motives?

    --------------------------------------------

    SuperPost Time

    Super long, anyway. Picking up on darkf's post on the trees that you go through on the way down to the graveyard, I agree that it's a catalogue worth doing but which has not been done. My problem is that there are seven trees, but I've only got photos of four, and only two of those four can be positively identified.



    At least this blueprint makes it easy to talk about them. Tree 7 is much photographed, since it's in the background of many shots of the Caretaker.





    A shot during HMH:



    The other positive ID is Tree 1:





    This one is Tree 2 or 3. [edit: I'm thinking 3]:



    This is a slightly better copy of the one darkf posted. Tree 4 or 5.



    We know quite a bit about these trees, actually. According to one good source, the three tallest trees are supposedly angry-looking, while the shorter trees have surprised expressions. Shocked and surprised they may well be, since it's now pretty much established that you're supposed to be falling off the balcony, down into the graveyard. Did you die? Hard to say, but the only living mortal depicted in the entire ride is the Caretaker, and he pays no attention to you as you pass. Not a good sign.

    The problem with probing into the misty past for the creative inspiration behind these trees is that we have an embarrassment of riches, and here we are summarizing some info from the first Thread. Most directly and obviously, the HM trees are the knarly offspring of the trees in Snow White's Scary Adventures.





    Take a look at this section of the original mural across the ride's entrance. Look at the ride-path layout. If you don't see a lot of HM here, you're blind.



    FYI, this part of the mural was toward the right, not far from the exit:




    Like the SW trees, the seven HM trees were originally supposed to be animated, and they were still designated "mechanical trees" in Spring 1969.

    Another probable source of inspiration was the "Forest of No Return" in the 1961 film Babes in Toyland. Among the Imagineers working on special mechanical effects for this movie were Bill Justice and X Atencio. Sets from the movie were on display for a time in the Main Street Opera House, and the rubber trees actually appeared in the Christmas 1961 parade down Main Street. Pritty weird. You can see an immediate resemblance to Tree 7 by the Caretaker:



    Then there's the trees in the Wizard of Oz, one of which, coincidentally, is voiced by Candy Candido, another HM luminary.


    If someone wants to fill in the blanks and complete our photo gallery of the Scary Seven, that would be coooool. Clicky clicky.
    Last edited by HBG2; 07-22-2009 at 03:13 PM.

  3. #168

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    Re: Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect vs The Army of Darkness, or the Thread 5

    Quote Originally Posted by clockworkmonkey View Post
    Since we're on the subject of the dining table - I wasn't able to get reservations for the upcoming Haunted Mansion anniversary party, and live far enough away that I won't be popping in to the parks for a casual visit, I'm thinking instead of having a Haunted Mansion anniversary dinner party to celebrate the 40th.

    I know the only things we actually see on the table are wine and cake, but what dishes do you think would be appropriate, fun, and tasty for a Haunted Mansion dinner?
    OHH! This is my forte right here.
    Okay, so first of all, make sure this is a three course meal. That seems silly for me to say that, but trust me, it'll add to the general feel of HM. I guess think of this as a secondary sort of Halloween dinner, and you can (for an example of an appetizer) serve chicken wings and drummets and call them Leota's Seasoned Wing of Bat. This you can do with each food, no matter what you serve. Just think of a prominent HM character and say it was their favorite As for what specifically to serve for an entree, I suppose you should try and find good southern recipies to fit the fact that it's the New Orleans Square Mansion that is celebrating its 40th.
    OHH! For dessert, serve that classic kids favorite, dirt cups, but make them mini graves complete with cookie grave markers with each of the guests names written on the marker with icing. (It's not as hard as it may seem though icing-writing does take practice.) I suppose that the dessert isn't as refined as the Haunted Mansion, but it'd be very cute.
    An alternative that's a bit classier is spiderweb cake. Make a chocolate or marbled cake, and ice it with a very rich dark chocolate icing. On top of the cake, make a spiderweb design with white icing by drawing 4-5 circles (like a bullseye) from the center to the outside of the cake, spaced evenly. Take a toothpick and draw straight lines from the center of the cake to the outer edge to create a classy, simple, and beatiful spiderweb design. Garnish with a black plastic halloween spider.
    If I knew you in person and if I lived close to you, I'd offer to do all of your cooking for you. Seriously. More because I like to cook than as a convenience to you, though >< !

    ------

    So, about the trees. Last time I rode HM with my sister, she pointed out to me that the trees in the graveyard scene look just like the ones in Snow White's Scary Adventure. I hadn't ever really discussed any HM triva with her, let alone that fact--which is something that I hadn't noticed til someone pointed it out on one of these here threads. I was so proud of her that when the ride stopped for wheelchair loading, I told her about how the trees were supposed to move. She throught that was cool. I thought she was cool for noticing.
    dreams. come. true.

  4. #169

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    Re: Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect vs The Army of Darkness, or the Thread 5

    Forgot about this one, over at Davelandweb:



    It's the same as this one:



    I thought it might be Tree 2, but now I'm thinking it's more likely that it's Tree 3. It seems awfully close to the wall:


  5. #170

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    Re: Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect vs The Army of Darkness, or the Thread 5

    Quote Originally Posted by BellhopPrincess View Post
    An alternative that's a bit classier is spiderweb cake. Make a chocolate or marbled cake, and ice it with a very rich dark chocolate icing. On top of the cake, make a spiderweb design with white icing by drawing 4-5 circles (like a bullseye) from the center to the outside of the cake, spaced evenly. Take a toothpick and draw straight lines from the center of the cake to the outer edge to create a classy, simple, and beatiful spiderweb design. Garnish with a black plastic halloween spider.
    Reminds me of a Halloween party I went to when I was 20 something. Everyone was supposed to bring a Halloweeny dish of some kind. When I got there, I was expecting all these weird and gross things; instead, there were all these yummy desserts like perfectly normal cakes with black frosting and pipe-stem-cleaner spider legs. Me, I had brought a tray full of baby octopi with toothpicks in them, served as hors d'oeuvres. They had been packed in olive oil ("Try them on pizza!" the jar label said), but otherwise they were raw. I immunized myself from criticism by eating one, and I think only one other got eaten.

    Not too bad, really, if you don't mind eating rubber bands. Kinda made it redundant to floss your teeth. I think we did eventually take the jar's advice and cook what was left on homemade pizzas.

  6. #171

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    Re: Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect vs The Army of Darkness, or the Thread 5

    The way I've always interpreted the transition from the attic into the graveyard is that you, the viewer have infact died. Everything up to that point has been more of a you viewing all the paranormal things going on as an outsider. Falling out of the attic could either be considered a suicide or just accident.

    If you go the suicide route you can basically come up with the story that after all the weird things you see in the house and seeing the bride it drives you to jump out of the attic to escape the insanity. If you go the accident route it could just mean that your character is frightened and isnt paying attention to the openning thus falling. I would assume that DL would prefer the accident version although the suicide scenario is also interesting.

    Eitherway you fall out and almost like in slow motion as you plumet falling backwards you see those spooky trees looming over you until you reach the bottom as a dead ghost (hence the terrified look the caretaker gives you when he turns, aside from everything thats going on in the graveyard). Another reason why I believe the rider to be dead is because in the graveyard I take it as a celebration. You yourself have now joined in on their party and for the first time you're actually taking part in the festivities other then just viewing from a distance. The ride ends and you emerge from a crypt back into the living world.......or are you?

  7. #172

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    Re: Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect vs The Army of Darkness, or the Thread 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Open_at_the_close View Post
    Eitherway you fall out and almost like in slow motion as you plumet falling backwards you see those spooky trees looming over you until you reach the bottom as a dead ghost (hence the terrified look the caretaker gives you when he turns, aside from everything thats going on in the graveyard).
    It could be that you fall backward slowly, because you are falling through the trees' branches...

  8. #173

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    Re: Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect vs The Army of Darkness, or the Thread 5

    I don't think the Doom Buggies are something that you're supposed to ignore, given the fact that the Ghost Host specifically refers to them. The whole falling and dying scenario just never made any sense to me. Yes, you're in the "spirit world," but you're not one of them. You're still attached to your physical form.

    Whether or not the caretaker sees you, who knows. If you were paralyzed with fear, unable to comprehend what's going on, and saw some supernatural carriages drifting by, would you immediately try to communicate with its occupants? He either doesn't see you because his perception is completely different (he and the mansion seem to be at a different point in history than us), or he's just completely at a loss of words and maybe just thinking "WTF??"
    Last edited by SmellyOrangutan; 07-22-2009 at 06:23 PM. Reason: because

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    Re: Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect vs The Army of Darkness, or the Thread 5

    Quote Originally Posted by SmellyOrangutan View Post
    I don't think the Doom Buggies are something that you're supposed to ignore, given the fact that the Ghost Host specifically refers to them. The whole falling and dying scenario just never made any sense to me. Yes, you're in the "spirit world," but you're not one of them. You're still attached to your physical form.

    Whether or not the caretaker sees you, who knows. If you were paralyzed with fear, unable to comprehend what's going on, and saw some supernatural carriages drifting by, would you immediately try to communicate with its occupants? He either doesn't see you because his perception is completely different (he and the mansion seem to be at a different point in history than us), or he's just completely at a loss of words and maybe just thinking "WTF??"
    Oy vey, it's very rare indeed that I find myself in disagreement with the Smelly O, and it's especially ironic in this case, because I used to argue against the idea of a "fall" from the balcony.

    But

    An internal memo from WED in April 1969 gives a fairly detailed description of the soon-to-open HM, and the relevant portion is unambiguous:

    Mortal visitors escape "outside" the mansion, only to suddenly "fall" backwards off the roof. They descend past grasping, demon trees, then find a terrified night watchman and his dog, standing, frozen with fright, at the gates of a misty cemetery. Once a grave place, the spooks now claim it as their playground and private park.
    I used to think the railings on the ramp were in a coherent style, indicating that they were part of a stairway at the end of the balcony (as in the "Story and Song" script), but they're not. They're irregular, twisty things, obviously intended to disappear against the backdrop and be taken as nothing more than random tree branches.



    So it looks like there's no stairs and you do indeed fall off the roof through the trees, like WED says. But if you do fall, the question of whether you die or not is left open. Remember "The Sixth Sense"? There is a notion in the popular culture that you can die and not know it. That may or may not be the intent here, but the possibility cannot be dismissed with the claim that it is nonsensical. IMO, it is intentionally ambiguous. More fun that way.

    As for the doombuggies, yes, the GH explicitly references them, but he has to, so you can prepare your boarding parties. That's why he carefully tells you the capacity. Safety spiels and camera instructions are other items that have to be in there, thematic appropriateness be damned, so logically, the "carriage" comments must be ruled out of court. In other words, since those comments would probably be there whether or not the buggies are to be understood as some sort of "real" vehicle, those comments have no weight as evidence either way.

    I have to point out once again the design of the buggies. Flat-black painted blobs without a single feature. I'm grateful to darkf for photographing the ride vehicles at the Haunted Castle in Santa Cruz because I've often thought they were useful in making exactly this argument. You would expect something like this if the doombuggies were "real."





    To me, this argument is decisive. If the doombuggies were intended to be seen as something, they would have looked like something, but instead they look as close to nothing as a ride vehicle can possibly look. I still hold to my Bunraku parallel as their most reasonable explanation.


  10. #175

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    Re: Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect vs The Army of Darkness, or the Thread 5

    BellhopPrincess, thanks very much! Some great ideas!

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    Re: Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect vs The Army of Darkness, or the Thread 5

    No, I'm convinced that you don't die when you go through the graveyard. As I mentioned way back in The Thread Four, the Ghost Host's narrative makes no mention of you being dead, and in fact he still speaks to you as a visitor to the Mansion, not as a new resident. For example, if you had died while leaving the attic, why would he say that a ghost will follow you home? If you had died there, you would be home already.

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    Re: Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect vs The Army of Darkness, or the Thread 5

    Quote Originally Posted by disneyfann121 View Post
    For example, if you had died while leaving the attic, why would he say that a ghost will follow you home? If you had died there, you would be home already.
    That's a good point.

  13. #178

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    Re: Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect vs The Army of Darkness, or the Thread 5

    Quote Originally Posted by disneyfann121 View Post
    No, I'm convinced that you don't die when you go through the graveyard. As I mentioned way back in The Thread Four, the Ghost Host's narrative makes no mention of you being dead, and in fact he still speaks to you as a visitor to the Mansion, not as a new resident. For example, if you had died while leaving the attic, why would he say that a ghost will follow you home? If you had died there, you would be home already.
    But thats only assuming that the spirit knows its mortal body is infact dead. I agree with HBG2 about the idea that the doombuggies are like bunraku. Yes you do get in them and they do show you what to see but they're supposed to mimic you the person walking thru the house. If they went with the old walk-thru idea main focal points that the Imagineers wuld want to stress wouldnt have possibly worked if people were allowed to walk around out of their own free will. The buggies just represent a set path and view the Imagineers wanted you to experience.

    As for the ghosts following you or you not staying in the graveyard after the fall well that depends. The ghosts for the most part arrived to the mansion from other places. The HM is supposed to be a retirement house for ghosts right? So you have to chose to call that place home in order for you to stay permenantly. The ghost's arent bound to remain in the house. They're free to come and go hence the Hitchiking Ghosts. They see you as a newly departed friend and wish to come with you to see your haunting grounds.

    But I guess thats the genius of the ride. It allows for so many different interpretations to be thought of. LOL I've even come up with a decent story that fits The old bride, Constace, and HBG to fit.

  14. #179

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    Re: Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect vs The Army of Darkness, or the Thread 5

    HBG2, have you ever considered writing a book?

    I think you should.

  15. #180

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    Re: Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect vs The Army of Darkness, or the Thread 5

    The one thing that bothers me is, why are the spooky trees painted in dark colors, why could'nt they be highlighted with spooky directional lighting, or accented with paint so you could make them out in the darkness? There are ways you could paint them and no make them too cartoony.
    And, I just realised that the Haunted Castle cars have hearse decorations, so maybe the Doombuggies are a type of hearse, and a hearse was a type of carriage. "And now a carriage approaches, to take you into the boundless realm of the supernatural". But the debate as to what the Doombuggies actually are in the realm of the HM will be a point of debate on message boards for years to come.
    (and as for the Hatbox ghost: two words, Pinpoint Spotlights.

    That way they don't need big lighting, the pinpoint spotlights are compact )
    Last edited by Mr.Fenwright; 07-23-2009 at 01:38 PM. Reason: ranting

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