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  1. #46

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    Re: Monorail Safety and WDI

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Well I am pretty convinced it is overblown. And I'm not in any way a big defender of WDI and their bungling.

    Knowing the way that WDI does business, I can't fathom that they didn't have meeting after meeting after meeting to nail down the design, and I would even wager a guess that at some point they asked some Monorail pilots how important the window was and they said it wasn't THAT important.

    If it was absolutely THAT crucial, that's something that ops would have demanded before WDI turned over the monorails for testing. It's something that could have been pointed out while the dozens of Monorail CMs were testing the attraction before it was available to guests.

    It's just not that important at all and it just sounds like a bunch of monorail CMs that are hurt that they changed the design and they weren't personally consulted on it.
    Gee if WDI did have all those meetings and consulted with operations wonder how they missed the obvious things like beam clearance (that seems pretty crucial), ventilation and the inability of the CM's to control the audio levels of the announcements and spiels among other things? Really makes me wonder what in the world they did catch and correct?

    I seriously doubt the monorail CM's are hurt etc.. seems more like they are irritated with all the problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by BoogaFrito View Post
    I suspect the Pilots are simply used to the windows being there. No one likes when someone else forces them to change their methods.

    I can see pilots using extra caution now when approaching the station, though, as opposed to relying on a glance out a side window from earlier in their journey...
    I've discussed this with friends working the monorail and we have heard from a few people here that are also actually working with the new trains... so it seems arrogant to simply dismiss their concerns.

  2. #47

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    Re: Monorail Safety and WDI

    If Monorail CM's had their way...


  3. #48

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    Re: Monorail Safety and WDI

    Quote Originally Posted by Nautilus View Post
    If Monorail CM's had their way...

    Ain't gonna help much, Sam - Pretty sure that's the tailcone at the rear.

    (If that is the only close-up shot you can find to Photochop, you are forgiven. But if you thought you could slip it by us... )

    Now if it was an operable window it wouldn't be a bad idea, just in case someone is stuck in there with the Beam Power down. Both ends get real warm, real fast.

    Oh, and the white Racing Stripe "Swoosh" can be duplicated over the window - they make the perforated sticker stock you can see through from the inside, just put on a plain strip to match the angle. Look at all the "Graphic Wrap" services for cars and trucks.

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  4. #49

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    Re: Monorail Safety and WDI

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    It's just not that important at all and it just sounds like a bunch of monorail CMs that are hurt that they changed the design and they weren't personally consulted on it.
    Well, a series of situations resulted in the death of a monorail pilot in Florida. If ANY of the items discussed in this thread would help prevent any sort of similar accident from happening at Disneyland, then I wouldn't consider their being "just not that important".

  5. #50

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    Re: Monorail Safety and WDI

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Bergman View Post
    Ain't gonna help much, Sam - Pretty sure that's the tailcone at the rear.

    (If that is the only close-up shot you can find to Photochop, you are forgiven. But if you thought you could slip it by us... )
    Whoops! I didn't even notice it was the tail 'till you said that. (I didn't try to slip it past you guys, I swear! )

    Here's a revised one, one that will actually help...


  6. #51

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    Re: Monorail Safety and WDI

    Quote Originally Posted by Nautilus View Post
    Whoops! I didn't even notice it was the tail 'till you said that. (I didn't try to slip it past you guys, I swear! )

    Here's a revised one, one that will actually help...

    See, now that doesn't look bad at all.

    Now all they have to do is get "stock" standard RV style radius corner windows that have a vertical slider (the bottom pane slides up for ventilation) make a hole in the door and another in the blank wall to the drivers' right, and slip them in.

    Skew the top of that window forward to go from a parallelogram to an even rectangle, put a black line across the center for the opening break mullion, and you can send a copy to the WDI Imagineer In Charge marked "Change Order."

    And said Imagineer can promptly toss it in the round file as "Not Invented Here". Oh well, we tried...

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  7. #52

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    Re: Monorail Safety and WDI

    Quick question:

    What harm could adding an inexpensive additional safety feature to the system do?

    Maybe it's overblown, but that doesn't mean that additional windows and mirrors are ever a bad call.

  8. #53

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    Re: Monorail Safety and WDI

    Quote Originally Posted by Theophilus Carter View Post
    What harm could adding an inexpensive additional safety feature to the system do?
    Physical or political?


    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
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  9. #54

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    Re: Monorail Safety and WDI

    Quote Originally Posted by Nautilus View Post
    Whoops! I didn't even notice it was the tail 'till you said that. (I didn't try to slip it past you guys, I swear! )

    Here's a revised one, one that will actually help...

    Great job, Nautilus. That is not a bad illustration. I agree with Bruce... Maybe an even rectangle like the other door windows would look better?

    As illustrated here, WDI could have easily gone with the nosecone windows. It actually looks good when you duplicate the stripe over the glass.

    That said, I think the same windows should also be applied to the tailcone. By having openable windows in the back, you give the guests in the back the option to breathe in case the train loses power and is stuck on the beam.

    I know Bruce was joking when he said this, but this seriously needs to be pushed through to WDI for a design modification.

  10. #55

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    Re: Monorail Safety and WDI

    Quote Originally Posted by Theophilus Carter View Post
    Quick question:

    What harm could adding an inexpensive additional safety feature to the system do?

    Maybe it's overblown, but that doesn't mean that additional windows and mirrors are ever a bad call.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Physical or political?
    I don't really care about the political, I'm an Outsider, a Guest. That's for someone who lives and dies by Office Politics. I'm more of a "Git 'Er Done!" type, let it be a collaboration as long as everyone involved gets their little piece of the credit for the results.

    This thing has had such a torturous path through the design and build phase and then hit the wall when it came to actually working... They've certainly been playing the Blame Game for over a year now.

    "I told you that wouldn't work!" "No you didn't! Show me the memo to prove it!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Code90 View Post
    Great job, Nautilus. That is not a bad illustration. I agree with Bruce... Maybe an even rectangle like the other door windows would look better?

    As illustrated here, WDI could have easily gone with the nosecone windows. It actually looks good when you duplicate the stripe over the glass.

    That said, I think the same windows should also be applied to the tailcone. By having openable windows in the back, you give the guests in the back the option to breathe in case the train loses power and is stuck on the beam.

    I know Bruce was joking when he said this, but this seriously needs to be pushed through to WDI for a design modification.
    No, actually I wasn't. At least, not totally - put it under the category of "Don Quixote tilting at windmills" or "Telling the king that he has no clothes", it probably won't happen but all the same someone had to say it. And since nobody else was rushing to volunteer for the duty, I got stuck with it. Again.

    History has may examples of what happens when the Designers are out of touch with what the customer really needs and wants in a product, and they design and they build it but nobody buys - One of them was the Edsel.

    You'd think that the Imagineers would learn from history so as not to repeat big misteeakes from the past, but Noooooo....

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  11. #56

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    Re: Monorail Safety and WDI

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Bergman View Post
    One of them was the Edsel.
    Which went from design to showroom floor faster than this monorail upgrade!

    Ahh, the Edsel: brilliantly designed engine upgrade, advanced power train, safety features ahead of it's time -- an engineering triumph (seriously, no joke). But which, as John Hench said, tanked in the marketplace because its body design recalled the shape of dead, beached cetaceans. Boy howdy, them WDI designers made sure they didn't make that mistake this time, eh?


    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Bergman View Post
    You'd think that the Imagineers would learn from history so as not to repeat big misteeakes from the past, but Noooooo....
    [Billy Mays voice]: And that's the miracle of Office Politics -- just spray it on, erases the brain of troublesome history lessons quick as a blink, no muss, no fuss! Just "Spray It On, Common Sense Gone!"


    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  12. #57

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    Re: Monorail Safety and WDI

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Bergman View Post
    I don't really care about the political, I'm an Outsider, a Guest. That's for someone who lives and dies by Office Politics. I'm more of a "Git 'Er Done!" type, let it be a collaboration as long as everyone involved gets their little piece of the credit for the results.
    I have found that so many are unwilling to share credit at Disney that this is generally where the problem starts. If people are willing to say "I need your experience in this area, thanks, you'll get credit for it" that goes a long way. Instead everyone wants the credit and doesn't want to admit when something may be "out of their league". Those that know what they are doing are boxed out for fear they will "steal credit" for their contribution.

    This isn't specifically a Disney problem, it is corporate culture in general... but in Disney's case that culture has led to significant design flaws in multiple projects.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


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  13. #58

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    Re: Monorail Safety and WDI

    Mark VII Monofail.
    "Remember 'Old Yeller'? We shot the dog." - Roy E. Disney


  14. #59

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    Re: Monorail Safety and WDI

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    I have found that so many are unwilling to share credit at Disney that this is generally where the problem starts. If people are willing to say "I need your experience in this area, thanks, you'll get credit for it" that goes a long way. Instead everyone wants the credit and doesn't want to admit when something may be "out of their league". Those that know what they are doing are boxed out for fear they will "steal credit" for their contribution.

    This isn't specifically a Disney problem, it is corporate culture in general... but in Disney's case that culture has led to significant design flaws in multiple projects.
    That's why I think WDI didn't consult anyone on the Mark VIIs even though they had every resource at their disposal. Bob Gurr must be laughing at the inexperience and ignorance that WDI has shown through this entire project.

    Due to the safety liability of the missing windows, it would be smart for WDI to put politics aside and correct this issue soon. In light of the recent incident at WDW, I can't think of a more important time to do this than now. Should something unfortunate happen, the company could face some serious legal implications for not acting on something they were fully aware of.

  15. #60

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    Re: Monorail Safety and WDI

    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Bob Gurr must be laughing at the inexperience and ignorance that WDI has shown through this entire project.
    From all accounts of folks who've worked with Bob, more like a quiet smile and a twinkle in the eye. The guy's a class act. (Besides having a handle on the misery that the rank and file at WDI & DL are doubtless going through on this one.)


    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


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