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  1. #46

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    Re: Has there been an original E Ticket attraction at DL since 1969?

    The only use of the term "E-ticket" that is not hopelessly subjective is, "A ride or attraction that most people agree would have been assigned an E if the ticket system were still in place."

    Among the non-movie tie-ins, Country Bears, America Sings, and BTMRR all fit. Also, insisting on a complete and absolute divorce from any kind of movie tie-in would eliminate even the Matterhorn Bobsleds, so you have to decide how much weight to give to this. Splash Mountain is an original log-flume ride with Song of the South decor, really. It's not based on the movie.

    If all you want to say is that the high-water mark for Disney attractions was the late sixties, it's easy enough to just say so without all this unnecessary confusion about E-ticket definitions. I happen to agree that the decade from 1959 to 1969 represents a breathtaking crescendo of innovation and creativity that is not likely ever to be repeated. But things like that are not simply dependent on finding creative people and turning them loose. Decades like that are part of a cultural Gestalt that also includes technological advances and public mood and appetite. It's no coincidence that that is also the decade that gave us the Gemini and Apollo space programs, culminating in the first moon landing. There hasn't been anything like it since.

  2. #47

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    Re: Has there been an original E Ticket attraction at DL since 1969?

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    I think the key to the title (requirements set by OP not withstanding) is the word "original". To me the last "original E Ticket" was Rocket Rods. Original, by definition, means not based on anything previously established. The last properly themed successful "original E Ticket" would be Big Thunder Mountain which opened in 1979.

    Indy and Star Tours are both amazing experiences that deserve their hard earned title of "E Ticket". However, regardless of a unique story, they are based on pre-existing movie based franchises. Again I am not slighting their creation, existence, or experience. I am stating that by definition they are not "original" and elements of their story include characters that were pre-existing prior to the attraction's opening date.
    Ah, I sort of missed the "original" aspect.

    I will say that Indy is a very original attraction. Yes it borrows the music and boulder scene from the Indy movies, but it is a unique setting/story which was not pulled directly from a movie.

    Does that make it any less original than Pirates or Mansion, which tell a story using very established and common elements from pirate and ghost lore?

    I really do want Disney to come up with something that meets the criteria set out in this thread though...
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  3. #48

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    Re: Has there been an original E Ticket attraction at DL since 1969?

    Quote Originally Posted by BC_DisneyGeek View Post
    I will say that Indy is a very original attraction. Yes it borrows the music and boulder scene from the Indy movies, but it is a unique setting/story which was not pulled directly from a movie.
    Well...it's a sort of pastiche of stuff from the movies. The basic setting of the attraction is never seen in any of the films, but many of the individual gags are based on material from the films. The snake temple, dart corridor, and rolling boulder are inspired by ROTLA; the spike room, cavern of bubbling death, and bug room all have clear ties to TOD; and the rat cave has roots in TLC. However, there's nothing wrong with any of this, IMO. Indy does a fantastic job of taking a preexisting franchise and telling a new-ish story within it that will feel familiar to fans while enticing non-fans without spoiling anything...and it does all this in a spectacularly entertaining way that fits the surrounding theme and draws in huge numbers of guests! Nothing wrong with building that sort of attraction...but it'd be nice to balance it out with more original stuff.


  4. #49

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    Re: Has there been an original E Ticket attraction at DL since 1969?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lore View Post
    Clearly one has to be carefull with their criteria. Does America Sings qualify as a real E-Ticket. It had a ton of Animatronics and you DID move, albiet your ride vehicle went in a circle.
    Well America Sings must qualify as it did require an E-Ticket when it opened, it was only later that it was lowered to a D-Ticket. The same happened to the Mine Train through Nature's Wonderland.

    The most objective criteria of E-Ticket is those attractions that required the coupon. That criteria shoots the 1969 date right out of the water.
    • Country Bear Jamboree (1972)
    • America Sings (1974)

    Then there are post-ticket Country Bear Christmas Special (1984) and Vacation Hoedown (1986). I guess the Country Bear Jamboree's originality could be argued as opened first at the Magic Kingdom, but that still leaves America Sings.

  5. #50

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    Re: Has there been an original E Ticket attraction at DL since 1969?

    According to the original critieria....nothing.

    According to the actual books (I found I a picture of a 1980 ticket book, recent enough)....

    Big Thunder Mountain Railroad in 1979. We can always make up our own criteria, but officially BTMR was the last E-Ticket attraction built at Disneyland.

    Others (as of 1980) that date after Mansion:
    * Country Bear Jamboree
    * Space Mountain
    Last edited by Wally; 07-26-2009 at 01:56 PM. Reason: bolding for clarity

  6. #51

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    Re: Has there been an original E Ticket attraction at DL since 1969?

    i would also consider the Sinbad attraction in TDS an elaborate and nicely detailed "E" ticket.

    Its not based on a specific movie, has music, has hundreds of aa's and the whole family can ride it.

  7. #52

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    Re: Has there been an original E Ticket attraction at DL since 1969?

    Quote Originally Posted by ICe101 View Post
    ..Found a better name for the thread: "Has there been a Pirates/Haunted Mansion style ride in DL since 1969?"
    I agree it would have been a clearer title for the thread.

    To that question I would have answered, "No, those two attractions are unique in their class" -- the class being the classic, big-show, Golden Age WED spectacular, the hallmarks of which are grand-scope story, no tie-in with existing Disney product, full use of AA, unique or novel special effects, memorable title song, relatively long ride length and suitable-for-all-ages transport system.

    But the thread title "Has there been an original E Ticket attraction at DL since 1969?" begs the question "what constitutes an original E Ticket attraction?" Which opens up further questions of how many E-Tickets have there been, which ones are better and why, what defines a full-family ride transport system and why, and so on. With so many sub-threads needing to be discussed and resolved in order to answer the thread's title question, it gets kinda confoosled.

    I'm not meaning to diss the thread or its title at all, just sayin'. From the OP post I think I know what he was meaning to go for; I just don't think the thread's title and opening post pointed the discussion in the direction he intended.

    All that said, my answer to the question "Has there been an original E Ticket attraction at DL since 1969" would be yes -- Country Bear Jamboree, America Sings, Space Mountain and Big Thunder come to mind.


    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 07-26-2009 at 03:20 PM.
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  8. #53

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    Re: Has there been an original E Ticket attraction at DL since 1969?

    Quote Originally Posted by GothicManor View Post
    No its not rediculous I will repeat. I think most will agree that at the end of his life Walt's Pirates and Mansion were the pinacle of attractions, my criteria is to designed to apply to rides such as these two ONLY
    Your criteria is still biased towards your needs. Your critieria is not based on the ride, but what you'd want to see. If not, why isn't your criteria include 'must be indoors in the dark' or other commonality between the attractions? Why must it be a ride-through vs. a show, or other type of experience? Why must it be AAs vs. some other form (such as.. real live animals).

    There are plenty of attractions that have approached the scale and emmersion of these attractions - just in different styles.

    You expanded your 'search' to include other parks and even mentioned Horizons.. which in terms of your criteria is actually weaker then the other EPCOT future world attractions. Attractions like Spaceship Earth are right up your definition. It was technologically astonishing being up in that ball.. then you had UoE with its breathtaking pre-show, 360 films, amazing ride vehicles, massive AAs, and mission. Journey Into Imagination is dead onto your definition... and the Living Seas was an example of expanded the scale and scope of Disney attractions like nothing before it. Or in more modern variations using animals instead of AAs (Safari at DAK).

    If you remove your requirement that it be a simple ride through vehicle - your question is a resounding yes all over the place.

    Today's audiences enjoy the physical experiences things like Splash, or Indy add to the attraction. There is no reason their inclusion should EXCLUDE them from being measured as a great attraction simply because some can not experience them.
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  9. #54

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    Re: Has there been an original E Ticket attraction at DL since 1969?

    If we're including stuff from other parks, then I think Spaceship Earth and Universe of Energy fits your criteria. Both have Audio Animatronics, have no height requirement, and can be enjoyed as a family.

  10. #55

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    Re: Has there been an original E Ticket attraction at DL since 1969?

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    I think the key to the title (requirements set by OP not withstanding) is the word "original". To me the last "original E Ticket" was Rocket Rods. Original, by definition, means not based on anything previously established. The last properly themed successful "original E Ticket" would be Big Thunder Mountain which opened in 1979.

    Indy and Star Tours are both amazing experiences that deserve their hard earned title of "E Ticket". However, regardless of a unique story, they are based on pre-existing movie based franchises. Again I am not slighting their creation, existence, or experience. I am stating that by definition they are not "original" and elements of their story include characters that were pre-existing prior to the attraction's opening date.
    I know that WDW isn't relevant to this discussion, but just there you have Expedition Everest, Test Track, Mission Space, RnRC that aren't based on any franchises, etc.

    There is not ONE ride in Disneyland that is 100% original. Not ONE.

    What is the difference in taking things like Pirates or Ghosts (that once again, Disney didn't create) and taking things like Star Wars or Indy or automobile testing or flying to mars or flying to space or going into the twilight zone???

    Answer ... NOTHING.


  11. #56

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    Re: Has there been an original E Ticket attraction at DL since 1969?

    Quote Originally Posted by sir clinksalot View Post
    There is not ONE ride in Disneyland that is 100% original. Not ONE. What is the difference in taking things like Pirates or Ghosts (that once again, Disney didn't create) and taking things like Star Wars or Indy or automobile testing or flying to mars or flying to space or going into the twilight zone??? Answer ... NOTHING.
    Well, that takes the debate in a rather different direction, and I think I disagree with the view you've presented. I mean, obviously, no art exists in a vacuum. Every theme park attraction has roots in many other things...movies, literature, other theme park attractions, etc. But there's a qualitative difference between drawing inspiration from many different sources without directly emulating any of them and taking a specific franchise (which surely was inspired by a similar number of other sources) and just translating it into a different medium. (EDIT: But again, I wouldn't suggest that one is inherently better than the other - I think they're both valid approaches when there's an appropriate balance between them.)


  12. #57

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    Re: Has there been an original E Ticket attraction at DL since 1969?

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister View Post
    Well, that takes the debate in a rather different direction, and I think I disagree with the view you've presented. I mean, obviously, no art exists in a vacuum. Every theme park attraction has roots in many other things...movies, literature, other theme park attractions, etc.
    I agree with Data's disagreement. In the strictest sense, there are no original stories. But that definition of originality seems off the point to discussions of Disney theme park attractions.


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  13. #58

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    Re: Has there been an original E Ticket attraction at DL since 1969?

    And just because a ride is based on a movie, "somebody" created it. And in most cases, it was Disney itself. There are only a few cases where Disney has taken another franchise such as Star Wars or Indy or Twilight Zone and made an attraction out of it.

    Yet the attractions made from those outside-of-disney franchises are some of the most highly thought of.


  14. #59

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    Re: Has there been an original E Ticket attraction at DL since 1969?

    Quote Originally Posted by sir clinksalot View Post
    And just because a ride is based on a movie, "somebody" created it. And in most cases, it was Disney itself.
    Very true...but there can still be a sense of it being somehow derivative or unoriginal, despite the creative effort that went into both the original and the attraction. They can also feel overly commercial if done in a way that's too heavy-handed, and in some cases, the material is quite simply better suited to its original medium, film. That's why I like moderation between "original" and "unoriginal" attractions. Franchise-based attractions are perhaps a little accessible to the average guest because it's easier to get immediately involved in a world you're already familiar with, but when used in excess, they can start suffering from all the problems I mentioned above.

    There are only a few cases where Disney has taken another franchise such as Star Wars or Indy or Twilight Zone and made an attraction out of it. Yet the attractions made from those outside-of-disney franchises are some of the most highly thought of.
    Well, I don't hear Star Tours getting all that much love these days, but Indy, sure...it's an insanely great attraction, no matter what it's based on!


  15. #60

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    Re: Has there been an original E Ticket attraction at DL since 1969?

    Quote Originally Posted by sir clinksalot View Post
    And just because a ride is based on a movie, "somebody" created it. And in most cases, it was Disney itself. There are only a few cases where Disney has taken another franchise such as Star Wars or Indy or Twilight Zone and made an attraction out of it.

    Yet the attractions made from those outside-of-disney franchises are some of the most highly thought of.
    I think for me what really set Disneyland apart was that you could experience things. It wasn't a matter of going on rides to see a Disney character. You went to the park and you flew a rocket, you went down a dark Jungle, a bunch of bears sang to you, you sailed past Pirates and floated past ghosts... Disneyland created it's own characters specifically for the parks, and limited it's animated "classics" to Fantasyland.

    Everything has a basis somewhere, and inspiration from something or someone else. But there is a difference from a singing bear that no one really thought of and a fedora wearing adventurer everyone has already seen on the screen. If you want to get highly technical then Indy has his routes in the 1920's and 1930's mummy pics where an adventurous explorer finds [insert name here] cursed tomb. Those in turn were inspired by books, which were inspired by stories... the trail goes extremely far back. The "Lucas" touch was to put everything together, add a fedora and a whip, and give the character a name! In the same way there are countless Pirate myths, countless ghost stories... WED made them recognizable characters... many of them nameless, but memorable none the less. They were original, they were unique, and while their origins are found elsewhere their likeness and purpose can only be found in a Disney park. The same can not be said of Indy, or Star Tours, no matter how amazing the execution of both attractions are.
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