Disney Will Eventually Go Back to 2 Annual Passholder Programs/Magic Morning Offering

[JoeCool]

Disney will eliminate the So Cal AP pass and SO Cal Select Pass programs all together. Offer 2 passholder programs: the Deluxe and the Premium and that is it. Also if a Deluxe passholder wants to gain admission on a black-out day - charge them the full purchase of a one day ticket not $40 which is about 60% of cost of a one day ticket.

Back in the 1980s and 1990s..there were only 2 passholder programs available plus a Senior Passholder that allows those 60 and up admission to the park from September through June. I think this is what Disney is moving toward. I would not be suprised if the So Cal programs are gone in 2010.

In 2010 and 2011, DCA will be refurbished and updated. Disney will want to maximize DCA attendance. Disney corporate will want the passholder attendance problem solved. The So Cal program fills the park with guests yes...but Disney wants to increase tourist attendance.

I would not be surprised if Disney eliminated the Magic Morning with the 3-day Pass Hopper tickets. Disney used to only have Magic Morning only through the Walt Disney Travel Company. I think Disney will offer Magic Morning only through its own travel company. Disney is going to move back to offering Magic Morning to tourists who book a Disney travel package at Disney-owned hotel or a non-Disney hotel. I think these changes will happen eventually.

I received this information from 2 DL cast members who work for the Walt DIsney Travel Co and for DL.

[Sir Didymus]

Wait, so is any of this fact? Or are you just speculating?

[The Disneylander]

Yeah, I would like some confirmation for this...although it doesn't sound unreasonable, seeing Al mentioned the AP reworking in his last update.

[JoeCool]

Wait, so is any of this fact? Or are you just speculating?

A bit of speculation on my part and also mixed with information from 2 conversations that I had with a Disneyland and Walt DIsney Travel Company cast member.

[JamesDusenberry]

I think having many different levels of annual passes is a good thing. There are people who cannot afford to spend 400 bucks on a Premium Pass, but could afford a lower level pass. Plus, now that they give you the ability to pay monthly, they're more affordable than ever.
Basically there are two kinds of people who should be getting annual passes. Those that go constantly, like at least twice a month, every month. And those that go maybe 5-6 times a year. Either way, a pass is a good idea, because eventually you will be going to the park for free. With a PAP, after about the 5th visit, you are going for free. And with the lowest level pass, SoCalSelect, you only need to go twice and then you are going for free because the savings will have paid for themselves.

So while of course the lower level passes don't give you free admittance every day like the PAP does, even if you go on a blackout date, you still are paying $40 instead of $70. So if you went enough, you would still have saved enough to cover the whole cost of the pass, including when you have to pay on blackout dates.

So yeah, I hope they keep the system they have and the monthly payment plan, because it really caters to all the different levels of Disneyland fans and the different levels of income those fans make. Plus that means more people can get discounts at restaurants and shopping areas and can find out more things to do through the AP magazine, and that's good for everybody!

[JoeCool]

I think having many different levels of annual passes is a good thing. There are people who cannot afford to spend 400 bucks on a Premium Pass, but could afford a lower level pass. Plus, not that they give you the ability to pay monthly, they're more affordable than ever.
Basically there are two kinds of people who should be getting annual passes. Those that go constantly, like at least twice a month, every month. And those that go maybe 5-6 times a year. Either way, a pass is a good idea, because eventually you will be going to the park for free. With a PAP, after about the 5th visit, you are going for free. And with the lowest level pass, SoCalSelect, you only need to go twice and then you are going for free because the savings will have paid for themselves.

So while of course the lower level passes don't give you free admittance every day like the PAP does, even if you go on a blackout date, you still are paying $40 instead of $70. So if you went enough, you would still have saved enough to cover the whole cost of the pass, including when you have to pay on blackout dates.

So yeah, I hope they keep the system they have and the monthly payment plan, because it really caters to all the different levels of Disneyland fans and the different levels of income those fans make. Plus that means more people can get discounts at restaurants and shopping areas and can find out more things to do through the AP magazine, and that's good for everybody!

I agree with what you said but corporate Disney wants to maximize its revenue and profits and add to shareholder value. The different passholder programs have worked..maybe too well and now Disney wants to solve the problem. They will look back to the 1980s and 1990s system that brought in record Disneyland profits. Any changes that are made will probably include keeping the monthly payment plan.

[NVDLfan]

That would be an interesting move on their part, I can't really say that I'd be against it either. I think that might really help the problem, while keeping up their profits.

[JamesDusenberry]

Yeah, I understand the whole thing about Disneyland not making as much profits, but I think there are some other factors contributing to that. Namely, the higher and higher ticket prices they have been introducing, especially when compared to other theme parks in the Greater Los Angeles area, and of course the recession.
I mean... just the other day, a friend of mine had two friend visiting from her hometown for just a few days. They had never been to LA before, so I of course asked if she was going to take them to Disneyland. She said maybe, but that it's just soo expensive, and that they might consider Six Flags or Universal instead. After maybe 10 minutes of guilt tripping her about how not bringing her friends who had never been here to Disneyland would be horrible, especially because who knows when they'll be back again.. she finally said "maybe", and did eventually go. But most people who are visiting LA and don't know anyone here and don't have anyone like me to guilt trip them.. choose instead to go to Knott's or Universal or Six Flags, simply because most families of two adults and 2+ kids, can't afford to spend like 400 dollars on admission alone.
So, if Disneyland cut their prices by say around 25% to make the adult tickets somewhere around $45-$50, many more people would go to the parks than are going now. Plus, they could have a whole promotion about how the magic at Disneyland is more affordable than ever. Have package deals with hotel stays and whatnot.

As per the whole Annual Pass "problem", where too many people are going for free now so their profits are falling.. I'm not sure that's a valid argument. First off, Annual Passes cost more than they ever have before, so for all the regulars who renew every year, they're getting more from all of them. Secondly.. with all the lower priced Passes that didn't exist before... those new passes are allowing more people to come than ever before, because it allows them to enter the parks for free, so they go much more often than they normally do. And while those people aren't paying admission.. they are still paying parking and they are still buying food, souveniers, etc.

And I think when DCA fully debuts, many more people will be going to check it out regardless. I know I hardly ever, if ever, go to DCA when I go to Disneyland. The time spent there for the few good rides isn't worth the time spent away from Disneyland. Unless it's a multiday trip, in which case I'll spend a few hours at DCA, but always end up at Disneyland. But when the "new" DCA opens up, I'll go just to see the two new lands they will have built and the other new attractions. I'm especially excited and a bit skeptical, to see the new "Partners" statue, with a younger Walt and an older version of Mickey. I think that will be kind of cool and something really unique that the DLR will have.
In DCA, there will be the young Partners statue looking over to Disneyland thinking "Look at all the amazing things we have ahead of us!" and the Partners statue at Disneyland will seem to be looking back at the younger Partners and reflecting.."Wow.. look how far we've come". I think just going between the parks and seeing that and having those statues make you think and reflect again on just how amazing a man Walt was, a once every 100 generations kind of man, and all the amazing things he did will be really cool and will make me start to want to spend equal time in both parks, if it's good enough, maybe even spend a full day in DCA, which I have never ever done before.

[JoeCool]

Yeah, I understand the whole thing about Disneyland not making as much profits, but I think there are some other factors contributing to that. Namely, the higher and higher ticket prices they have been introducing, especially when compared to other theme parks in the Greater Los Angeles area, and of course the recession.
I mean... just the other day, a friend of mine had two friend visiting from her hometown for just a few days. They had never been to LA before, so I of course asked if she was going to take them to Disneyland. She said maybe, but that it's just soo expensive, and that they might consider Six Flags or Universal instead. After maybe 10 minutes of guilt tripping her about how not bringing her friends who had never been here to Disneyland would be horrible, especially because who knows when they'll be back again.. she finally said "maybe", and did eventually go. But most people who are visiting LA and don't know anyone here and don't have anyone like me to guilt trip them.. choose instead to go to Knott's or Universal or Six Flags, simply because most families of two adults and 2+ kids, can't afford to spend like 400 dollars on admission alone.
So, if Disneyland cut their prices by say around 25% to make the adult tickets somewhere around $45-$50, many more people would go to the parks than are going now. Plus, they could have a whole promotion about how the magic at Disneyland is more affordable than ever. Have package deals with hotel stays and whatnot.

As per the whole Annual Pass "problem", where too many people are going for free now so their profits are falling.. I'm not sure that's a valid argument. First off, Annual Passes cost more than they ever have before, so for all the regulars who renew every year, they're getting more from all of them. Secondly.. with all the lower priced Passes that didn't exist before... those new passes are allowing more people to come than ever before, because it allows them to enter the parks for free, so they go much more often than they normally do. And while those people aren't paying admission.. they are still paying parking and they are still buying food, souveniers, etc.

And I think when DCA fully debuts, many more people will be going to check it out regardless. I know I hardly ever, if ever, go to DCA when I go to Disneyland. The time spent there for the few good rides isn't worth the time spent away from Disneyland. Unless it's a multiday trip, in which case I'll spend a few hours at DCA, but always end up at Disneyland. But when the "new" DCA opens up, I'll go just to see the two new lands they will have built and the other new attractions. I'm especially excited and a bit skeptical, to see the new "Partners" statue, with a younger Walt and an older version of Mickey. I think that will be kind of cool and something really unique that the DLR will have.
In DCA, there will be the young Partners statue looking over to Disneyland thinking "Look at all the amazing things we have ahead of us!" and the Partners statue at Disneyland will seem to be looking back at the younger Partners and reflecting.."Wow.. look how far we've come". I think just going between the parks and seeing that and having those statues make you think and reflect again on just how amazing a man Walt was, a once every 100 generations kind of man, and all the amazing things he did will be really cool and will make me start to want to spend equal time in both parks, if it's good enough, maybe even spend a full day in DCA, which I have never ever done before.

Good points. Disneyland had higher profits in the 1980s and 1990s with its 2 passholder system and the Magic Morning only through its travel company.
The So Cal passes do not make up the shortfall at all. Granted, the Halloween and Christmas promotions in the past years has increased attendance and basically took away the "off-season" in the fall. Disney is not going to cut prices. It will instead do a promotion. I personally think that Disney overextended itself recently with the promotions (birthday, 3 days for $99) and the So Cal passholder programs and as Al stated in his recent update, Disney suits want to address the attendance and passholder issues. Disney will likely go back to the highly sucessful (and profitable) system it had in the 1980s and 1990s.

[dl1955pounds]

I honestly don't think that the posters in this thread are very informed.

What's wrong with offering a discount on a severely limited pass? They have a giant piece of property that can hold 60,000 people, and on a Wednesday morning in September, the place is empty. They still have to incur the costs of keeping it open to paying guests, so why not let more people in? This is the purpose of the Socal Select pass. If you happen to have a work/school schedule where you can actually go to Disneyland on a Wednesday in September, Disney gets $150 out of you, and you don't add much in extra costs to the park. If you want to go in July, you're out of luck, unless you want to pay more. It's a perfect system, and the only flaw right now is that the prices seem to be too low.

The solution to cut back the amount of passholders is to raise the prices, assuming it actually is a problem for Disney. Right now, you have to pay more to go on the days that are more crowded. It makes complete sense, and if it's really gotten to the point that the passes are making the place too crowded for tourists, they just need to raise the prices of the passes, or add more blockout dates.

I don't see how it's economical for Disney to make it prohibitively expensive for Passholders who want to go on an uncrowded day. Do you want the park to be empty those days, and not make any money? The system is fine, it just needs to be tweaked. Contrary to what Al Lutz may say, the park is still very uncrowded for a huge portion of the year.

[JoeCool]

I honestly don't think that the posters in this thread are very informed.

What's wrong with offering a discount on a severely limited pass? They have a giant piece of property that can hold 60,000 people, and on a Wednesday morning in September, the place is empty. They still have to incur the costs of keeping it open to paying guests, so why not let more people in? This is the purpose of the Socal Select pass. If you happen to have a work/school schedule where you can actually go to Disneyland on a Wednesday in September, Disney gets $150 out of you, and you don't add much in extra costs to the park. If you want to go in July, you're out of luck, unless you want to pay more. It's a perfect system, and the only flaw right now is that the prices seem to be too low.

The solution to cut back the amount of passholders is to raise the prices, assuming it actually is a problem for Disney. Right now, you have to pay more to go on the days that are more crowded. It makes complete sense, and if it's really gotten to the point that the passes are making the place too crowded for tourists, they just need to raise the prices of the passes, or add more blockout dates.

I don't see how it's economical for Disney to make it prohibitively expensive for Passholders who want to go on an uncrowded day. Do you want the park to be empty those days, and not make any money? The system is fine, it just needs to be tweaked. Contrary to what Al Lutz or David "Darkbeer" Michael may say, the park is still very uncrowded for a huge portion of the year.

I am VERY INFORMED. While I do not disagree with what you have said besides your first sentence. It is hardly a perfect system. Disney suits want to cut the AP population and maximize profits. The 1980s and 1990s system produced record profits with only one theme park -- DIsneyland and now profits are no where near the 1990s level with additional theme park DCA and an additional hotel GCH (and Disneyland resort operating costs have obviously increased). Having the 2 passholder programs - Premium and Deluxe allows Disney to maximize AP revenue. According to my sources, the SO Cal passholder system is going to be either revamped or eliminated....Disney suits want to marker DL and DCA to the tourists in 2010 and beyond and tourists spend more money per capita than passholders regardless of the level...tourists rent hotel room, rent cars and airline tickets....the Walt Disney Travel Company offers all these services.

I also expect more black-out dates for So Cal passholders in 2010.

[Ex-SmallWorld CM]

IF this happens, then maybe Universal Studios will follow suit since they have too many people visiting with their buy one day, get a year free specials.

Like Lady Tremaine said, IF.

[JoeCool]

IF this happens, then maybe Universal Studios will follow suit since they have too many people visiting with their buy one day, get a year free specials.

Like Lady Tremaine said, IF.

I love the image of Lady Tremaine saying IF and that smile.....

[sediment]

The 1980s and 1990s system produced record profits with only one theme park -- DIsneyland and now profits are no where near the 1990s level with additional theme park DCA and an additional hotel GCH (and Disneyland resort operating costs have obviously increased). Having the 2 passholder programs - Premium and Deluxe allows Disney to maximize AP revenue.

In the 80's and early 90's there were not not as many AP'ers as there are now. Clearly, from what you write, the AP program is the problem.

There is only one way to lower that number that is guaranteed to work. One way.

Alternative way, that will not be as effective:
Get rid of PAP and Deluxe. There is no reason to allow AP'ers in on busy days. The AP program should be designed for off-season use only, to fill the park when it cannot be filled with per-entry-paying guests

[JoeCool]

In the 80's and early 90's there were not not as many AP'ers as there are now. Clearly, from what you write, the AP program is the problem.

There is only one way to lower that number that is guaranteed to work. One way.

Alternative way, that will not be as effective:
Get rid of PAP and Deluxe. There is no reason to allow AP'ers in on busy days. The AP program should be designed for off-season use only, to fill the park when it cannot be filled with per-entry-paying guests

Good points.
In the 1980s, there was a Senior Passholder program that allowed seniors 60 and above admissions to Disneyland Sunday through Friday from September through June. Maybe Disneyland should offer a passholder program like the 1980s Senior program.