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  1. #31

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    Re: Disney's America?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Newsflash for you... the bulk don't goto DL either. The concept was putting Disney America right in the womb of American history. An area within easy driving distance of Washington DC (a huge attraction in it's own right), within spitting distance of many landmarks of our Civil War, and within driving distance of many of our Revolutionary War elements.
    The bulk of american and international tourist when they go to a themepark in America do not go to disneyland? Then how come the 2008 TEA report states they are number two only to the clone Magic Kingdom???
    2 DISNEYLAND, Anaheim, California, USA 14,721,000 in 2008

    Second you have to understand who is the driving force behind family vacations. Kids. And last time i looked a trip to VA for the historical experince was not high up on the list (of course under assumption).



    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    It was scrapped due to 'land issues'. The area didn't want them! Many people feared what it would do to the rural VA area. A theme park on the scale of Disney can not be done simply as a 'by right' project. They need all kinds of special exceptions, infrastructure improvements, and they'd WANT the government to favor them so they can get the protections and controls they desire. They failed to win any of that support in VA so they cried uncle and moved on. They didn't get the government buy-in like they got in Florida and the project would have been an uphill battle. They fought it for awhile, and eventually gave up.
    I was directing the land issues to the lack of overall development regardless if they lost the VA contract they still had the land to do it. So since it was scrapped, to me, indicates that they considered the California market not very interested in an educational park. Especially in the company of California theme park competition.

    Im just saying that in regards to an educational park i just didnt see it happening and lasting as long.
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  2. #32

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    Re: Disney's America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post


    I'm right there with you on this one. It's sad to me that the idea of edutainment turns so many off. Epcot is an amazing theme park and back in the 80's when it was even more educational it was wonderful with all of the AA heavy attractions in Future World.

    I would have loved to have seen Disney's America or WestCOT as part of the DLR.

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  3. #33

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    Re: Disney's America?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneyNEWdad View Post
    The bulk of american and international tourist when they go to a themepark in America do not go to disneyland?
    Now you are moving the goalposts - you've inserted 'when they go to a themepark'. That is only a sliver of the tourism industry.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneyNEWdad View Post
    Second you have to understand who is the driving force behind family vacations. Kids. And last time i looked a trip to VA for the historical experince was not high up on the list (of course under assumption).
    Well you can have assumptions - or you can go on facts. Facts are - tourism to the Triangle, DC, and the surrounding areas is huge.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneyNEWdad View Post
    I was directing the land issues to the lack of overall development regardless if they lost the VA contract they still had the land to do it. So since it was scrapped, to me, indicates that they considered the California market not very interested in an educational park. Especially in the company of California theme park competition.
    The content of the park was not really part of the debate. There were some angles people were pushing about Disney disrespecting or making a game out of some of the concepts of our history - but this was all about Politics and power struggles. This was about development vs. preservation. This same argument is still going on in the area long after Disney - just as it was happening before Disney came to town.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneyNEWdad View Post
    Im just saying that in regards to an educational park i just didnt see it happening and lasting as long.
    You can't really use the Disney America project as justification for that point. Edutainment is not why it didn't come to be. And the attraction of EPCOT would prove you otherwise as well.
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  4. #34

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    Re: Disney's America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post



    Quote Originally Posted by Anders View Post
    I'm right there with you on this one. It's sad to me that the idea of edutainment turns so many off. Epcot is an amazing theme park and back in the 80's when it was even more educational it was wonderful with all of the AA heavy attractions in Future World.

    I would have loved to have seen Disney's America or WestCOT as part of the DLR.
    I agree. Epcot is my favorite park at WDW. My first visit there was in 1985, just a few years after it opened. My favorite part about the park (and what made me love it in the first place) was that it was educational and also fun. Done right, it works. Every park doesn't need to be thrill ride after thrill ride.





  5. #35

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    Re: Disney's America?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    Another option would have been to build this in the parking lot INSTEAD of DCA.

    And didn't they consider this theme as a re- do for DCA before deciding to go the character route with Mermaid, Cars etc.?
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogtherock View Post
    Ya. I think it would still be part of the resort. After all MK and AK are WAY far away!
    Yes, but one can get between the Magic Kingdom and Disney's Animal Kingdom without leaving Disney's property.

    That said, according to Google Maps it is a 16 minute drive between Disneyland and Knott's Berry Farm and a 13 minute drive between the Transportation and Ticket Center and Disney's Animal Kingdom. The traffic in Orange County would probably make that number go up.
    Last edited by Villains Fan; 08-03-2009 at 08:15 PM. Reason: Link to other website removed.

  6. #36

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    Re: Disney's America?

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    MousePlanet.com
    Very interesting do you know the date on that article? I couldnt find one.

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Now you are moving the goalposts - you've inserted 'when they go to a themepark'. That is only a sliver of the tourism industry.
    Well when you are backed up into a corner!

    I understand and should have defined first. On the overall tourist aspect being in the VA area then they would have tapped the history lovers crowd; but being in VA and far away from any type of themepark entertainment how many average families would travel to VA for Disney's America?

    As for EPCOT it does a wonderful job of blending education and entertainment. However, more peopel are interested in the future and learning about technology then history.
    Last edited by Villains Fan; 08-03-2009 at 08:15 PM.
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  7. #37

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    Re: Disney's America?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneyNEWdad View Post
    On the overall tourist aspect being in the VA area then they would have tapped the history lovers crowd; but being in VA and far away from any type of themepark entertainment how many average families would travel to VA for Disney's America?
    I don't understand your thinking. Do you think Disney needs to have an existing attraction before it can move in?


    I don't know what you mean by 'far away from any type of themepark entertainment'

    Do you not remember both DL and WDW were built in basically vaccums. They were chosen for their accessibility, climate, etc... not to be a parasite on another attraction. They CREATED the attraction and everything else came after them.

    People already travel from all around the country to visit DC and all the civil war and revolutionary sites in the area. DC's tourist 'total' is pretty close to DL and WDW combined... America's 25 Most Visited Tourist Sites - ForbesTraveler.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
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  8. #38

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    Re: Disney's America?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneyNEWdad View Post
    Very interesting do you know the date on that article? I couldnt find one.
    I do not know a specific date. From the tone of the article it sounds as if it is sometime not too long after 11 September 2001. MiceAge was started in 2002, in December I believe.

  9. #39

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    Re: Disney's America?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    I don't understand your thinking. Do you think Disney needs to have an existing attraction before it can move in?


    I don't know what you mean by 'far away from any type of themepark entertainment'

    Do you not remember both DL and WDW were built in basically vaccums. They were chosen for their accessibility, climate, etc... not to be a parasite on another attraction. They CREATED the attraction and everything else came after them.
    No i think that Disney obviously did not pursue or did not make this happen they have the clout regardless of what you read in the media or you think. If disney wants it done it will be done. Plus the normal FAMILY im not talking the normal tourist im saying Family does not go to VA therfore their biggest target audience Family vacations i feel would be lost in a historic park.

    And your pretty much stating that Disneys America would be a parasite to the VA market just FYI.
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  10. #40

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    Re: Disney's America?

    I'm with Flynn on this one. VA has quite a few "family" tourist sites in its own right; Busch Garden's Williamsburg is probably pretty high on the list.

  11. #41

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    Re: Disney's America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    I'm with Flynn on this one. VA has quite a few "family" tourist sites in its own right; Busch Garden's Williamsburg is probably pretty high on the list.
    If its so high then how come in the TEA report its not that high? Not even top 25! Look

    1 MAGIC KINGDOM at Walt Disney World, Lake Buena Vista, Florida, USA 17,063,000
    2 DISNEYLAND, Anaheim, California, USA 14,721,000
    3 TOKYO DISNEYLAND, Tokyo, Japan 14,293,000
    4 DISNEYLAND PARK AT DISNEYLAND PARIS, Marne-La-Vallee, France 12,688,000
    5 TOKYO DISNEY SEA, Tokyo, Japan 12,498,000
    6 EPCOT at Walt Disney World, Lake Buena Vista, Florida, USA 10,935,000
    7 DISNEY'S HOLLYWOOD STUDIOS at Walt Disney World, Lake Buena Vista, Florida, USA 9,608,000
    8 DISNEY'S ANIMAL KINGDOM at Walt Disney World, Lake Buena Vista, Florida, USA 9,540,000
    9 UNIVERSAL STUDIOS JAPAN, Osaka, Japan 8,300,000
    10 EVERLAND, Gyeonggi-Do, South Korea 1 6,600,000

    11 UNIVERSAL STUDIOS at Universal Orlando, Orlando, Florida 6,231,000
    12 SEAWORLD FLORIDA, Orlando, Florida, USA 5,926,000
    13 DISNEY'S CALIFORNIA ADVENTURE, Anaheim, California, USA 5,566,000
    14 ISLANDS OF ADVENTURE at Universal Orlando, Orlando, Florida, USA 5,297,000
    15 OCEAN PARK, Hong Kong SAR 5,030,000
    16 UNIVERSAL STUDIOS HOLLYWOOD, Universal City, California, USA 4,583,000
    17 YOKOHAMA HAKKEIJIMA SEA PARADISE, Yokohama, Japan 4,555,000
    18 HONG KONG DISNEYLAND, Hong Kong SAR 4,500,000
    19 BUSCH GARDENS TAMPA BAY, Tampa Bay, Florida, USA 4,410,000
    20 LOTTE WORLD, Seoul, Korea 2 4,236,000
    21 SEAWORLD CALIFORNIA, San Diego, California, USA 4,147,000
    22 EUROPA-PARK, Rust, Germany 4,000,000
    23 TIVOLI GARDENS, Copenhagen, Denmark 3,972,000
    24 NAGASHIMA SPA LAND, Kuwana, Japan 3,734,000
    25 PORT AVENTURA, Salou, Spain 3,600,000

    Look the area is great for historic areas and personally would love to visit but when im looking at vacation destinations for my family DLR and WDW rank tops. I will never go to a busch gardens really and even if i was in VA i would rather spend money on other things then a day at busch gardens.

    On a final and last note. The idea simply sounds boring. I dont want to go to a disney history lesson and would much rather if im travelling to the east cost go to WDW then DA.
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  12. #42

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    Re: Disney's America?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneyNEWdad View Post
    On a final and last note. The idea simply sounds boring. I dont want to go to a disney history lesson and would much rather if im travelling to the east cost go to WDW then DA.
    I'd bet that the great majority of Disney customers born in the 70's, 80's and 90's feel the same way. They are the branded-lifestyle customers to whom Disney aggressively markets its characters-on-everything.

    American history, Disney-presented or not, isn't branded.


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  13. #43

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    Re: Disney's America?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneyNEWdad View Post
    No i think that Disney obviously did not pursue or did not make this happen they have the clout regardless of what you read in the media or you think. If disney wants it done it will be done.
    So what are you saying? Disney backed out because they woke up one morning and realized 'this America thing will never work... lets scram' ?

    I think you need to do some actual reading into the subject before you jump to these conclusions. I was here during this attempt - I know what went down.

    You seriously under estimate the stubbornness and fortitude of preservationists and the VA Gentlemen.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneyNEWdad View Post
    Plus the normal FAMILY im not talking the normal tourist im saying Family does not go to VA therfore their biggest target audience Family vacations i feel would be lost in a historic park.

    And your pretty much stating that Disneys America would be a parasite to the VA market just FYI.
    I'm still trying to figure out what you are trying to say at all. Earlier posts were just hard to figure out your point.. this one I can't even interpret what you are writing.

    If your theory is simply that Disney woke up and said 'this is a bad concept' and left town - you're simply wrong. It was a rather crushing blow to the theme park division.
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  14. #44

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    Re: Disney's America?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneyNEWdad View Post
    No i think that Disney obviously did not pursue or did not make this happen they have the clout regardless of what you read in the media or you think. If disney wants it done it will be done. Plus the normal FAMILY im not talking the normal tourist im saying Family does not go to VA therfore their biggest target audience Family vacations i feel would be lost in a historic park.

    And your pretty much stating that Disneys America would be a parasite to the VA market just FYI.
    I know plenty of normal families that go on vacations to historic places. Your idea that families seek out the Disney resorts is entirely off base. Many families see the Orlando vacation as something that is done once, and that is it.

  15. #45

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    Re: Disney's America?

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    That said, according to Google Maps it is a 16 minute drive between Disneyland and Knott's Berry Farm and a 13 minute drive between the Transportation and Ticket Center and Disney's Animal Kingdom. The traffic in Orange County would probably make that number go up.
    It's only like five miles gate-to-gate as the crow flies. Bulldoze a direct path from one park to the other, put in a high-speed rail connection, and the trip would take less than five minutes.
    Last edited by Villains Fan; 08-03-2009 at 08:18 PM.

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