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  1. #61

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    Re: Disney's America?

    Quote Originally Posted by yoyoflamingo View Post




    And in relation to Disney's America, isn't the site originally intended for the park a Walmart now? I vaguely remember reading that somewhere.
    I heard the site in VA is now some country club.



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  2. #62

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    Re: Disney's America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Well, Knott's and Magic Mountain aren't in the top 25 either; neither is Cedar Point, for that matter...so by that logic, I guess we should assume they're just not all that popular.



    Then I wonder why you enjoy Disneyland--one of the basic tenets of its very existence was to educate.
    Knott's isnt that great anymore and is taken over by Cedar Point if im not mistaken and is slowly losing the original feeling and point of the originial knotts. As for Six Flaggs there not theme parks there amusment same with Cedar Point in my opinion.

    I feel that IMHO that i would never spend money to take my family to Six Flaggs or Cedar Point then only amusement parks im interested in is Uni and Disneyland parks.

    And i havent found the Walt quote that staes Disneyland is for education? What makes you say its intendend to educate. And i stated that EPCOT is a wonderful park and so is DAK and their premises is to educate. The only problem is that they arent going to educate on American History something i feel would take more then the current disney team that designed CA had to make a well mixed park like EPCOT and DAK.

    But hey apparently my dislike for the idea of DA isnt approved of so riducule this post as well. Eventually i learn to conform
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  3. #63

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    Re: Disney's America?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneyNEWdad View Post
    Knott's isnt that great anymore and is taken over by Cedar Point if im not mistaken and is slowly losing the original feeling and point of the originial knotts. As for Six Flaggs there not theme parks there amusment same with Cedar Point in my opinion.

    I feel that IMHO that i would never spend money to take my family to Six Flaggs or Cedar Point then only amusement parks im interested in is Uni and Disneyland parks.
    Well, you didn't specify "Theme Parks." The point is, we were talking about places that have population draws. Is this what Flynn meant when he talked about moving the goal posts?

    It sounds like you are very closed-minded when it comes to theme parks. Busch Gardens Williamsburg frequently wins "Most Beautiful Theme Park" awards. Also, they do rank pretty high on some surveys:

    The 10 Best Amusement Parks in America | USA Travel Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by disneyNEWdad View Post
    And i havent found the Walt quote that staes Disneyland is for education? What makes you say its intendend to educate.
    I guess you just didn't look hard enough.

    I never said that was its only raison d'etre. But Walt did have in mind that folks would learn a bit at Disneyland. Here are a couple of his quotes:

    "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning, together with every variety of recreation and fun designed to appeal to everyone."

    "The idea of Disneyland is a simple one. It will be a place for people to find happiness and knowledge. It will be a place for parents and children to share pleasant times in one another’s company; a place for teachers and pupils to discover great ways of understanding and education…. Disneyland will be based upon and dedicated to the ideals, the dreams and the hard facts that have created America…. Disneyland will be something of a fair, an exhibition, a playground, a community center, a museum of living facts, and a showplace of beauty and magic."


    Quote Originally Posted by disneyNEWdad View Post
    But hey apparently my dislike for the idea of DA isnt approved of so riducule this post as well. Eventually i learn to conform
    I won't ridicule it, but I will point out its flaws.
    Last edited by Steve DeGaetano; 08-04-2009 at 09:01 AM.

  4. #64

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    Re: Disney's America?

    "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning, together with every variety of recreation and fun designed to appeal to everyone."

    "The idea of Disneyland is a simple one. It will be a place for people
    to find happiness and knowledge. It will be a place for parents and children to share pleasant times in one another’s company; a place for teachers and pupils to discover great ways of understanding and education…. Disneyland will be based upon and dedicated to the ideals, the dreams and the hard facts that have created America…. Disneyland will be something of a fair, an exhibition, a playground, a community center, a museum of living facts, and a showplace of beauty and magic."

    These are great quotes!

  5. #65

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    Re: Disney's America?

    disneyNEWdad sounds like the type who would never consider going to the Grand Canyon, Yosimite, the Everglades, Williamsburg, DC, Paris, Rome, etc. Seriously man.. there is much more to the world to experience and enjoy then interactive rides, AAs, and roller coasters.
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  6. #66

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    Re: Disney's America?

    ^Im just saying IMHO and i guess you do get ridculed for your opinion and i guess that people are allowed to say their dislike for CA but im not allowed to show my dislike for DA. Didnt think micechat was all about making somebody feel bad for their opinion.

    Appreciate it.

    And i have been to the Grand Canyon and the some places in D.C. and lived in Japan and England and seen many beautiful things in both countries.

    I just assumed on a theme park websited you would direct your things towards the themepark aspect. Never said that places like the ones you mentioned where terrible or a place to non visit. I just stated that a themepark with the purpose of telling American History would be a bad idea on the themepark aspect. Same opinion as many have stated that having a themepark in California about California (CA) is a bad ided.
    Last edited by d.N.d.; 08-04-2009 at 11:51 AM.
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  7. #67

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    Re: Disney's America?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneyNEWdad View Post
    ^Im just saying IMHO and i guess you do get ridculed for your opinion and i guess that people are allowed to say their dislike for CA but im not allowed to show my dislike for DA. Didnt think micechat was all about making somebody feel bad for their opinion.
    You're not being ridiculed for your opinion. You are trying to use your opinion to justify your position. That makes it part of the discussion, not some sideline concept people are chasing you about.

    You made it part of the discussion by making it the foundation of your discussion. Sorry I don't agree with your opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneyNEWdad View Post
    I just assumed on a theme park websited you would direct your things towards the themepark aspect. Never said that places like the ones you mentioned where terrible or a place to non visit.
    Seems contrary to what you said on page 1
    Quote Originally Posted by disneyNEWdad View Post
    IMHO...sounds boring kids dont want to go to a park about the history of America and who wants to learn on vacation especially kids.
    Quote Originally Posted by disneyNEWdad View Post
    I just stated that a themepark with the purpose of telling American History would be a bad idea on the themepark aspect.
    And I don't think anyone has challenged what you've stated as your opinion there - it's more about the other stuff you have said that has been countered.

    If you'll never consider anything but Uni or Disney for your themepark trips.. I'd tell you you're missing a ton and should consider being more open minded. There is a lot more out there worth 'paying attention to'
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
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  8. #68

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    Re: Disney's America?

    Ive been to Knotts and it seemed cool up until the Fiesta Village and Roaring 20's section. Not really a place i would go back unless i had extra time on my vacation. As for Cedar point or Six Flaggs never had the desire to go. Always been a disney guy i guess.

    But i just dont feel i would make a special visit for DA and like i previously said being on the Westcost if i was traveling east i would just go to WDW. In fact a fifth gate for WDW would be better for DA because you would buy the park hopper and would probably draw more disney families people.
    Last edited by d.N.d.; 08-04-2009 at 06:23 PM. Reason: my thoughts never stop so i had to add more :)
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  9. #69

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    Re: Disney's America?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneyNEWdad View Post
    In fact a fifth gate for WDW would be better for DA because you would buy the park hopper and would probably draw more disney families people.
    No, the fact is that a new park has a serious potential to cannibalize attendance from the other parks.

    Disney's America clearly was not built around the idea of a destination resort. It seems to me that they did learn from some of the mistakes with Euro Disney. From its location to its subject, the evidence seems to be in favor of Disney trying to attraction people who are already heading to the area (for the history, etc.) instead of trying trying to attract people to just the park.

  10. #70

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    Re: Disney's America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Well, you didn't specify "Theme Parks." The point is, we were talking about places that have population draws. Is this what Flynn meant when he talked about moving the goal posts?

    It sounds like you are very closed-minded when it comes to theme parks. Busch Gardens Williamsburg frequently wins "Most Beautiful Theme Park" awards. Also, they do rank pretty high on some surveys:

    The 10 Best Amusement Parks in America | USA Travel Guide

    I guess you just didn't look hard enough.

    I never said that was its only raison d'etre. But Walt did have in mind that folks would learn a bit at Disneyland. Here are a couple of his quotes:

    "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning, together with every variety of recreation and fun designed to appeal to everyone."

    "The idea of Disneyland is a simple one. It will be a place for people to find happiness and knowledge. It will be a place for parents and children to share pleasant times in one another’s company; a place for teachers and pupils to discover great ways of understanding and education…. Disneyland will be based upon and dedicated to the ideals, the dreams and the hard facts that have created America…. Disneyland will be something of a fair, an exhibition, a playground, a community center, a museum of living facts, and a showplace of beauty and magic."

    Great quotes there Steve. Now I know what WDI goes through when they make a theme park. Trying to bring some history to life is just one of the steps in making a Disney Theme Park. I think DA would've worked well in VA than Buena Park. But having it at Buena Park would've made it easier for me to go to and the Independence Hall Replica is already there. Thats why I brought the scenario up on what would happen if DA did replace Knotts.

    And good points made. Theres more to a theme park than just rides.



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  11. #71

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    Re: Disney's America?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneyNEWdad View Post
    And i stated that EPCOT is a wonderful park and so is DAK and their premises is to educate. The only problem is that they arent going to educate on American History something i feel would take more then the current disney team that designed CA had to make a well mixed park like EPCOT and DAK.
    This sadly shows how little you seem to know of EPCOT Center. Two of its largest attractions, Spaceship Earth and the American Adventure, were almost completely history lessons. Still are. Other attractions also touch largely on history, whether it be human, natural, or cultural. One of the main ideas behind EPCOT, in most of its forms, is that to envision the future, you have to see where you've come from.

    Disney has a long history of being very good at informative, entertaining, and inspiring history lessons (or I should say WED had, WDI hasn't made many good attempts more recently, though I hear good things about the new Hall of Presidents show). It's depressing to me that newer fans are unaware of this, or don't care.

  12. #72

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    Re: Disney's America?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Forbidden Eye View Post
    Great quotes there Steve. Now I know what WDI goes through when they make a theme park.
    Thanks! But in the interest of accuracy, I would like to correct myself, and note that the larger quote I posted above is not actually attributed directly to Walt Disney. It was part of a six-page description of Disneyland that was presented, along with Herb Ryman's drawing of the Park, to the New York financiers, and was the first formal definition of the Park. It was written by Bill Walsh, based on Walt Disney's verbalizations for his Park.

    The press release from Opening Day calls Disneyland, "...a land where fantasy and imagination are companions with history." Walt is quoted in that release as stating that Disneyland was "a fabulous playground--something of a fair, a city from Arabian Nights, a metropolis of the future, a show place of magic and living facts, but above all a place for people to find happiness and knowledge."

    Now, back to Disney's America. Interestingly, there was a concept for "Walt Disney's America" before the idea of Disneyland congealed. Walt described it to Harper Goff in London in 1951: "It's sort of a kiddieland. I don't want to just entertain kids with pony rides and slides and swings. I want them to learn something about their heritage." Walt then went on to describe a series of scenes highlighting events in American History.

    So, to suggest that Disneyland never had an educational component is simply incorrect.
    Last edited by Steve DeGaetano; 08-08-2009 at 08:53 AM.

  13. #73

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    Re: Disney's America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Thanks! But in the interest of accuracy, I would like to correct myself, and note that the larger quote I posted above is not actually attributed directly to Walt Disney. It was part of a six-page description of Disneyland that was presented, along with Herb Ryman's drawing of the Park, to the New York financiers, and was the first formal definition of the Park. It was written by Bill Walsh, based on Walt Disney's verbalizations for his Park.

    The press release from Opening Day calls Disneyland, "...a land where fantasy and imagination are companions with history." Walt is quoted in that release as stating that Disneyland was "a fabulous playground--something of a fair, a city from Arabian Nights, a metropolis of the future, a show place of magic and living facts, but above all a place for people to find happiness and knowledge."

    Now, back to Disney's America. Interestingly, there was a concept for "Walt Disney's America" before the idea of Disneyland congealed. Walt described it to Harper Goff in London in 1951: "It's sort of a kiddieland. I don't want to just entertain kids with pony rides and slides and swings. I want them to learn something about their heritage." Walt then went on to describe a series of scenes highlighting events in American History.

    So, to suggest that Disneyland never had an educational component is simply incorrect.
    Good points there. So the concept of DA was thought of before DL was planned.

    It seems that the educational part of Disneyland is becoming somewhat a minority, but the Imagineers do try to hold on to the educational value. And I've seen that with Epcot and DAK through photos since I've never been to WDW.

    So Steve, In your honest opinion, do you think the Knotts conversion to DA would've worked if the company did acquire Knotts years ago?



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  14. #74

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    Re: Disney's America?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Forbidden Eye View Post
    So Steve, In your honest opinion, do you think the Knotts conversion to DA would've worked if the company did acquire Knotts years ago?
    I think, with the basic "bones" already in place (authentic western architecture, Independence Hall), that it could have been made into something far grander and better than what Cedar fair has turned the place into.

    I don't know about the transportation issues others have raised; but I don't know why it just couldn't have operated as a stand-alone Park, not in conjunction with the Disneyland "Resort."

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