Page 3 of 11 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 157
  1. #31

    • MiceChat News Team
    • Top Shelf!
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    BANZAI INSTITUTE for Biomedical Engineering and Strategic Information
    Posts
    13,137

    Re: The Exploitation of Walt for Buena Vista St.

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    Two specific thoughts... the majority of park merchandise was not about him, his life, or his beliefs... the merchandise was themed to specific lands and sold. He did guidebooks... but even that really advocated the merits of the subjects covered... not Walt.

    Secondly, he did various tv specials, initially used the ABC ones to finish the park... but again the specials promoted the park, not Walt, his life, or his personal beliefs! There is a difference between showing what someone created and reading someone's biography.
    I never said or hinted that the majority of merch sold in the park was Walt-centric, I only pointed out that there were things sold with his presence present in rebuttal to your response:
    And yet, aside from his name he didn't really promote himself within the park.
    Also I believe arguably that it was Walt he was selling in all aspects including his life and beliefs. Where do you believe the impetus for the philosophies and direction sprang from even for Disneyland alone? Mr. Disney's various interests ranging from Abraham Lincoln, the old west, family entertainment, his studio and the future.

    Also I referenced his national TV exposure thinking far more of his weekly hosting appearances that lasted for years rather than occasional TV specials. Doing them from your office, a second home to many, is fairly personal. And intentionally so on his part.
    "If you don't know how to draw, you don't belong in this building" - John Lasseter 2006

  2. #32

    • Closed Account
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    5,897

    Re: The Exploitation of Walt for Buena Vista St.

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    Those who didn't know him have continually quoted him in defense of every major decision.
    I would just like to add that "Disneyland will never be completed as long as there is imagination left in the world."

    Every MiceChat thread has to feature this quote at least once, right?

  3. #33

    • "I Break Things"
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    12,447

    Re: The Exploitation of Walt for Buena Vista St.

    I'd like to link this...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Exactly right on both points. As kids in the 50's and 60's, I and my siblings and our family friends were diehard Disney fans -- but not fans of Walt. As kids or adults, we were into Disneyland and Disney movies and Disney characters and Davy Crockett and the Mouseketeers -- but not Walt.

    In our minds Walt was the host of the show, the guy who made things happen, the filmmaker, the artist, the inspiration behind it all. The magic was in the Disney stuff itself -- in Peter Pan and Tinkerbell and, above all, Disneyland. Walt was not magic. Walt was liked and admired and praised, but not beloved, and never revered. Disneyland was liked and loved and admired and praised and revered. Disneyland was magic.

    Sure, Walt's face was on the guidebooks you bought at the Park, and his signature was on the ticket books and elsewhere. But so far as promoting "Walt" went, that was about it. If you were a Walt fan (and growing up I never knew of any) you were SOL -- aside from his short introductions for the weekly TV show and an occasional media interview, there was zip.

    The whole selling of "Walt Our Revered Founder" is not a Disney thing. It's an Eisner thing. He started it, his successors are continuing it.

    It's business. Anyone who thinks the execs' hearts are in it hasn't been on the inside.
    with this...

    Quote Originally Posted by ALIASd View Post
    I never said or hinted that the majority of merch sold in the park was Walt-centric, I only pointed out that there were things sold with his presence present in rebuttal to your response:


    Also I believe arguably that it was Walt he was selling in all aspects including his life and beliefs. Where do you believe the impetus for the philosophies and direction sprang from even for Disneyland alone? Mr. Disney's various interests ranging from Abraham Lincoln, the old west, family entertainment, his studio and the future.

    Also I referenced his national TV exposure thinking far more of his weekly hosting appearances that lasted for years rather than occasional TV specials. Doing them from your office, a second home to many, is fairly personal. And intentionally so on his part.
    Due to the fact that it demonstrates exactly what I am referring to. People went to the park to see what Walt had created... not necessarily to see Walt. While part of Walt's ideal are included in his creations... his creations also have the stylistic and creative spirit of their individual animators as well! You can argue that the parks individual lands are reflective of Walt. I would counter that aside from Fantasyland they are reflective of 1950's public interests (Jungles, Old West, Space, and conservative small town America)...

    Again I stress Walt didn't need to justify his decisions with his own quotes, sell books in the park based on his life, or build statues in honor of his success. Everything that I have read about him indicates he was both humble and private. The company has managed to do the exact opposite.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


    "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"


  4. #34

    • "I Break Things"
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    12,447

    Re: The Exploitation of Walt for Buena Vista St.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    I would just like to add that "Disneyland will never be completed as long as there is imagination left in the world."

    Every MiceChat thread has to feature this quote at least once, right?
    and now suddenly certain elements of Micechat are speechless.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


    "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"


  5. #35

    • I see mouse people
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Too far from Disneyland
    Posts
    3,768
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: The Exploitation of Walt for Buena Vista St.

    I dunno, Mr. Wiggins. Davy Crockett was before my time, but I always was enchanted by Walt himself. I thought of him as the master magician, the man who made the magic, who made the entire park. I've read some of the biographies, even those that make him out to be a less-than-stellar human being. But he's still Walt Disney, a larger than life figure.
    I agree the marketing dept. has no qualms about using him to sell stuff. And to a point, I don't really have a problem. As I said, I don't want to see Walt Disney toilet paper.
    But what's wrong with the partners statue? The man built the park. He might not have had the ego to install a statue of himself, but I don't see why it's a bad thing that someone else did.
    Even using Walt as a tie-in to the Buena Vista St. I don't see as a bad thing. I would rather they keep a Disney theme than just toss in areas that don't have any unifying factor. More people have probably seen the words "Buena Vista" at the beginning of Disney films than anywhere else.
    I don't know...maybe I'm getting mellow in my old age and current situation. (ha!)
    I want Walt Disney to be remembered. I want his image to be familiar to the people who are enjoying what he created. I don't think he'd really mind that.

  6. #36

    • Senior Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    8,894

    Re: The Exploitation of Walt for Buena Vista St.

    Quote Originally Posted by ALIASd View Post
    Also I believe arguably that it was Walt he was selling in all aspects including his life and beliefs. Where do you believe the impetus for the philosophies and direction sprang from even for Disneyland alone? Mr. Disney's various interests ranging from Abraham Lincoln, the old west, family entertainment, his studio and the future.
    I disagree. Walt reflected the interests and cultural values of his audience, from the 20's through the 50's. He was a studio mogul, futurist and (above all) story man, who directed his studio's energies toward the things that interested him personally. The points you cite as things Walt was "selling" were the things Walt loved as a child -- which also resonated with large portions of the public. Walt wasn't selling, so much as he was playing. Playing hard, by his own rules, and for keeps, but playing nonetheless. His philosophy and method are not remotely connected to those of Disney today. Or with the movie business itself, for that matter.


    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 08-25-2009 at 02:08 PM.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  7. #37

    • "I Break Things"
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    12,447

    Re: The Exploitation of Walt for Buena Vista St.

    This has become an interesting discussion... trying to separate Walt's beliefs and ideals from his creations...
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


    "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"


  8. #38

    • Senior Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    8,894

    Re: The Exploitation of Walt for Buena Vista St.

    Quote Originally Posted by SnorkletsMom View Post
    But what's wrong with the partners statue? The man built the park. He might not have had the ego to install a statue of himself, but I don't see why it's a bad thing that someone else did.
    Even using Walt as a tie-in to the Buena Vista St. I don't see as a bad thing. I would rather they keep a Disney theme than just toss in areas that don't have any unifying factor. More people have probably seen the words "Buena Vista" at the beginning of Disney films than anywhere else.
    I don't know...maybe I'm getting mellow in my old age and current situation. (ha!)
    I want Walt Disney to be remembered. I want his image to be familiar to the people who are enjoying what he created. I don't think he'd really mind that.
    To me there's nothing wrong with selling Walt's life and philosophy.

    Except for the hypocrisy of how the company doing the selling really feels about his philosophy.

    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  9. #39

    • "I Break Things"
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    12,447

    Re: The Exploitation of Walt for Buena Vista St.

    Quote Originally Posted by SnorkletsMom View Post
    I dunno, Mr. Wiggins. Davy Crockett was before my time, but I always was enchanted by Walt himself. I thought of him as the master magician, the man who made the magic, who made the entire park. I've read some of the biographies, even those that make him out to be a less-than-stellar human being. But he's still Walt Disney, a larger than life figure.
    Harry Houdini is the individual I immediately thought of when you said master magician. It's ironic because Houdini's audience was there for the tricks as much as they were there to see him. He was a master showman and many went not only to say they saw the tricks, but to actually shake the hand of the handcuff king...

    In contrast many in the 50's and 60's went to Disneyland to see Disneyland. Many of them probably saw the park in various episodes of the TV shows. Some remember seeing it under construction, or watching the live broadcast of opening day. But they went to see Disney the land, not necessarily Disney the man. If they saw Walt they wanted an autograph, or a handshake, but that was a bonus... not the intent of the trip. Their intents were reflected in the attractions they rode, the shows they watched, and the souvenirs they bought. This was a celebration of Disney's creations and Americana in general... not a celebration of the man responsible for it.

    Now we are presented with a land that could easily stand on its own. Instead of leaving it as a 1920's LA it is being tweaked further... as a 1920's LA Walt saw... I ask why? What purpose does it serve? Why is it suddenly important to identify with Walt instead of identifying with the creations he made? Walt made a great theme park... so make another one... Disney shouldn't need to quote Disney or tie-in to Disney like some cheap movie/character tie-in to do it.
    Last edited by techskip; 08-25-2009 at 02:16 PM.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


    "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"


  10. #40

    • "I Break Things"
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    12,447

    Re: The Exploitation of Walt for Buena Vista St.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    To me there's nothing wrong with selling Walt's life and philosophy.

    Except for the hypocrisy of how the company doing the selling really feels about his philosophy.
    I take issue with using Walt's archaic quotes to justify modern decisions.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


    "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"


  11. #41

    • Senior Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    8,894

    Re: The Exploitation of Walt for Buena Vista St.

    ^ That, too!


    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  12. #42

    • I see mouse people
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Too far from Disneyland
    Posts
    3,768
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: The Exploitation of Walt for Buena Vista St.

    Ironic that Houdini was essentially killed by his own image.

    Skip, I understand what you're saying and I don't completely disagree. But I, personally, would rather they tie the area in with Walt than start having separate areas that are no longer part of a whole, even if the connection is tenuous. Then it becomes Six Flags, a collection of zones that doesn't blend well and seems cheapened overall. (I know, the current mgmt. doesn't need help cheapening the park)
    I don't know...I guess we'll see how good or bad it is when it's finally complete.

    btw...I really liked this thread and the overall civil discussion. :-)

  13. #43

    • "I Break Things"
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    12,447

    Re: The Exploitation of Walt for Buena Vista St.

    Quote Originally Posted by SnorkletsMom View Post
    Ironic that Houdini was essentially killed by his own image.
    I hadn't expected anyone to catch on to that part... to some degree that is true of Houdini.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


    "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"


  14. #44

    • MiceAge Columnist
    • Dateline Disneylander
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Disneyland, U.S.A.
    Posts
    8,139

    Re: The Exploitation of Walt for Buena Vista St.

    Quote Originally Posted by SnorkletsMom View Post
    Ironic that Houdini was essentially killed by his own image.

    Skip, I understand what you're saying and I don't completely disagree. But I, personally, would rather they tie the area in with Walt than start having separate areas that are no longer part of a whole, even if the connection is tenuous. Then it becomes Six Flags, a collection of zones that doesn't blend well and seems cheapened overall. (I know, the current mgmt. doesn't need help cheapening the park)
    I don't know...I guess we'll see how good or bad it is when it's finally complete.

    btw...I really liked this thread and the overall civil discussion. :-)
    How does making Buena Vista Street about Walt Disney help it fit any better with "the whole"? DCA is, and will continue to be a collection of zones that don't blend well. The California theme is the only thing holding anything together, nevermind that they started off with a watered down California theme and then continued to pour buckets into the theme as if they were trying to drown it at birth.

    Photos, news, and commentary every week from Walt Disney's Magic Kingdom!

    | | |

  15. #45

    • "I Break Things"
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    12,447

    Re: The Exploitation of Walt for Buena Vista St.

    Quote Originally Posted by SnorkletsMom View Post
    btw...I really liked this thread and the overall civil discussion. :-)
    thank you

    my compliments to all who have contributed thus far. I challenge anyone to present a reason why Walt must be tied to Buena Vista... otherwise I am content to say that he was exploited in the presentation for the purposes of pushing what Disney considered a sub-par land.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


    "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"


Page 3 of 11 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. [Question] Buena Vista Palace Bus Service
    By halltd in forum Walt Disney World Resort
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-11-2008, 03:12 PM
  2. No More Buena Vista!?!
    By Mr_Incredible in forum MiceChat News Archive
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-28-2007, 08:27 PM
  3. Buena Vista to Roll out More Blu-Ray Discs - ADN, 12/19/06
    By disneytim in forum MiceChat News Archive
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 12-25-2006, 07:52 PM
  4. Buena Vista Games...
    By cellarhound in forum MiceChat News Archive
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 09-28-2005, 11:00 PM
  5. Buena Vista Network
    By dramaqueen in forum MiceChat Main Lounge
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-22-2005, 11:03 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •