Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker VIII

[Mojave]

Originally Posted by Macro

<dries off arm after trying it with a glass in a waste bin full of water>
Oops. Looks like its time for another "mea stupida".

I hope you recycled that water back into the OC ground water system.

[flynnibus]

Originally Posted by thermo648

I have a feeling that we may just have to trust in the engineers of the project for this. You're right though, Flynn, that I was wrong, or was at least using the wrong wording, in talking about neutral buoyancy, my mistake.

No worries - its a fun discussion. Correction is just part of what happens when we all ramble on - its when people get belligerent that the fun goes away

Originally Posted by thermo648

With that as well, though, if the platform is brought above a neutral buoyancy and the scissor lifts hold it in place, then there is going to be less of a danger of major pressure being applied to the platform in the downward direction.

Yeah, that's what I just outlined in my reply to mycroft - it seems like the most likely scenario IMHO.

Originally Posted by thermo648

Also, as you stated earlier, movement in the water is more difficult, especially quick movement, so the quick movements will be dulled because of the slowing of movement that the water will have combined with the above neutral buoyancy. So the fountain's pressure will probably still be a factor, but not quite as large of a factor as we make it out to be.

Quick movement is tough because simply turning pumps on/off is slow. The way you get speed in response is to build up pressure, and use the release of that stored energy to speed up your response. It's like using a fan vs a bottle of compressed air. Both can blow at high volumes, but the fan must get up to speed, while the compressed air is nearly instant. In this feedback loop you can add air quickly with pressure, but it's harder to release air in quick precise bursts... so you could end up with a very aggressive solenoid trying to close the loop. The movement of the platform itself would be slowed due the viscosity of the water slowing its movement.. also adding lag to the feedback loop.

Originally Posted by thermo648

(Of course this is just conjecture from what I've seen and experienced. I'm too lazy to do the actual math, so feel free to correct what I've stated incorrectly if you want to take the time )

The best thing about engineering is.. you can always approximate It's only when you are the one doing the actual computations that you need to worry about precision

The best class ever was nuclear engineering. The best feeling was being able to cross off entire portions of equations because the orders of magnitude were so dramatically different.. uusally the complex integral portions were just insignificant and you usually ended up with almost basic algebra problems. After doing things like electromagnetic wave theory, transmission systems, etc... being able to throw away large portions of equations was like christmas!

My physical professors were also very big on the equations and approximations and not the numbers. In fact, on each test, we always had approximation problems where we had to justify our work and estimates.

For instance, one test he said we had to approximate the number of bricks that were in the library across the street. You had to come up with estimates, validate how you got those numbers, and then work out the math. Fun, but challenging to qualify each of your assumptions. Else you got the 'dead rat' scribbled on your test.

[rollrcostrfrk807]

Originally Posted by insider67

Lots of concrete going in at both carsland and Paradise Pier Park. The concrete pumper in carsland has been goin nonstop for about 4 hours and theres a line of cement trucks about 10 trucks long. PoM area has been filled in pretty good and they are pouring cement into the water fountain play area. All in all its been an extremely busy night for all the cement workers.

Does anyone have pictures?

[MrToadOfToadHall]

Doesn't sound like any of our usual photogs made it today. I may run down tomorrow for a bit. I'll let you all know.

[rollrcostrfrk807]

well i guess we can all wait until Picture Thursday if you can not make it tomorrow.

[bfdf55]

Originally Posted by flynnibus

Stress is caused by forces. Unbalanced Forces are what cause the problem. If the platform is pushed up in a non-uniform way to cause the same amount of deflection its going to have the same problems in the water or out.

In the water, if its neutrally bouyant, the same force required to push the platform up like that above the water in the picture would result in GREATER deflection in the water. Lifting it out of the water is HARDER, not easier then in the water. So the non-uniform force would cause more stress.

I'm sure it's something they are doing on purpose, or the floats are on the fritz No way something like that would go unnoticed.

Personally I'm just suprised by the amount of deflection they are allowing it to undertake. Such flex means its even harder to maintain a level surface. Remember the platform will be floating UNDER the water, which means it must be held in place, not just floating on top. Flex in the platform means different parts can move independently and must be tightly controlled.

What will be interesting is how the forces of the various fountain jets going off will affect the flexing of the platform. During the show, there will be a number of different water effects, from constant fan sprays and numerous small jets forming patterns, to huge shooters pumping large amounts of water into the air. All those forces will cause the platform to flex in different ways.

While the tanks under the platform will be able to raise and lower the platform to the desired depth, they won’t provide support against the forces of the jets during the show.

[rollrcostrfrk807]

Originally Posted by insider67

Just by looking at the people in front of it...around 15 to 18 feet

30-foot tree
source: Holidays at Disneyland | Disneyland Resort

[thermo648]

I don't know if anyone has commented on this, but there appears to be just simple lights installed on the platform (in the upper left hand corner), and they appear to be halogen flood lights of some sort. And they're supported just by that single band as you can see in the picture and they also seem to have a watertight seal, so they definitely appear to be a permanent addition Just thought I'd mention it. Anyone have a guess as to what their purpose could be in the show?

[aussiedave]

^the other right

[MrToadOfToadHall]

Originally Posted by thermo648

I don't know if anyone has commented on this, but there appears to be just simple lights installed on the platform (in the upper right hand corner), and they appear to be halogen flood lights of some sort. And they're supported just by that single band as you can see in the picture and they also seem to have a watertight seal, so they definitely appear to be a permanent addition Just thought I'd mention it. Anyone have a guess as to what their purpose could be in the show?

Funny you should mention those. I was just browsing Darkbeer's latest batch of photos from Sunday and came across that same photo and light. It could just be to create intense white (or colored) columns of vertical light. It could also be used to illuminate some fountain sprays. Or it could have something to do with the downstage video mist screen areas, as it is in roughy the correct location for the center screen. So far, none of us have seen any evidence of what creates the downstage screens. It could be that it is simply segments of the existing spray nozzles being used to create fans of mist, but I suspect there are still a few key pieces missing from the platform, including the dual nozzle for the main mist screens. The two large hoses were still lying on the deck when I was there Sunday.

[lighttragic]

Originally Posted by bfdf55

What will be interesting is how the forces of the various fountain jets going off will affect the flexing of the platform. During the show, there will be a number of different water effects, from constant fan sprays and numerous small jets forming patterns, to huge shooters pumping large amounts of water into the air. All those forces will cause the platform to flex in different ways.

While the tanks under the platform will be able to raise and lower the platform to the desired depth, they won’t provide support against the forces of the jets during the show.

As Steve Davison calls it the show of his career , I am sure Disney and the engineers have thought this through to make sure everything on the platform will function correctly

[BiggestDisneyFan]

Originally Posted by thermo648

I don't know if anyone has commented on this, but there appears to be just simple lights installed on the platform (in the upper right hand corner), and they appear to be halogen flood lights of some sort. And they're supported just by that single band as you can see in the picture and they also seem to have a watertight seal, so they definitely appear to be a permanent addition Just thought I'd mention it. Anyone have a guess as to what their purpose could be in the show?

Perhaps those lights are there 'just in case' they need to do maintenance on the platform, at night? Of course, I'm sure that they could aim a big spotlight (or ten) at the platform, if need be, but having a local floodlight might just be easier. Also, they could use these, while the platform is in its lowest position, to illuminate the water, for whatever reason.

[thermo648]

Originally Posted by aussiedave

^the other right

thanks

[bfdf55]

Originally Posted by lighttragic

As Steve Davison calls it the show of his career , I am sure Disney and the engineers have thought this through to make sure everything on the platform will function correctly

Your screen name "lighttragic" kind of contradicts your assertion that whatever Disney and their engineers do "will function correctly".

[TrevorD]

Originally Posted by MrToadOfToadHall

Funny you should mention those. I was just browsing Darkbeer's latest batch of photos from Sunday and came across that same photo and light. It could just be to create intense white (or colored) columns of vertical light. It could also be used to illuminate some fountain sprays. Or it could have something to do with the downstage video mist screen areas, as it is in roughy the correct location for the center screen. So far, none of us have seen any evidence of what creates the downstage screens. It could be that it is simply segments of the existing spray nozzles being used to create fans of mist, but I suspect there are still a few key pieces missing from the platform, including the dual nozzle for the main mist screens. The two large hoses were still lying on the deck when I was there Sunday.

I wonder if a white light on the screen would serve to help the colours appear more vividly.