Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker VIII

[bfdf55]

Originally Posted by kaliwolf

This guy isn't a hack as some of you seem to think. He was essentially design head on DLP's Discoveryland and HKDL's Tomorrowland. He worked heavily on the Living Seas at EPCOT Center. Heck Theophilus Carter, your avatar is likely one of his pieces (he worked on DCA from close to the start, and saw it through all the changes, from some pretty good ideas like Circle of Hands, to what we got...) When you interview, particularly with a place like Laughing Place (strong ties back to the WDC itself), you don't talk trash. You have to try to put it in a positive light. Have you ever seen an Imagineer really trash a project they've worked on? Sometimes when you're stuck with ideas you don't like, you have to try to find the good in them to get you through.

Rarely (with a notorious Hench DCA exception) do any Imagineers (or any company employee for that matter) ever speak negatively during official interviews. Even when they are totally embarrassed by the result, they put on their “corporate Disney face” and regurgitate the company PR.

However, one can occasionally get their personal opinions during unwary casual conversation (off the record). It’s during those conversations that one can reassert confidence in the true feelings and intent of some Imagineers (some remain corporate even during casual conversation) as they reveal when they feel that Imagineering could have done better if given the chance (budget, political support, etc.).

Yes, they do the best they can with what they have to work with, but they often feel they shouldn’t have to make do with poor concepts to start with. When real creative Imagineers are kept from developing truly creative ideas (usually due to politics or favoritism), it's disheartening to them and insincere to us.

[Nautilus]

Originally Posted by kaliwolf

More bad news, Valerie Edwards, Director of Sculpture for WDI (recently noted for creating the sculpture of Obama's face for the Hall of Presidents) was also let go/forced out. In a D23 interview she noted that her mentor was John Hench, and that she also learned a great deal from Blaine Gibson (WDI's previous master sculptor, among countless other accolades). What the heck is happening at WDI??? It's like they're having a meltdown. You don't get rid of these people, not unless something putridly political is going on.

It's political, don't worry, there's no meltdown. There is still plenty of high quality talent left.

[TrevorD]

I thought the new DLR president was good news. Not so?

[bfdf55]

Originally Posted by Nautilus

It's political, don't worry, there's no meltdown. There is still plenty of high quality talent left.

Actually, political actions often result in meltdown. There have been differing amounts of serious political actions going on at Imagineering over the past fifteen years or so, with differing level of negative effects. Everything from firing top creative Imagineers while promoting lesser ones, to subverting true creative concepts in favor if weaker, but politically acceptable ideas.

If it weren't true, how would you explain the lack creative quality applied to DCA, HKDL and DSP?

Apparently, while there have been several organizational restructuring over the past couple of decades, shuffling some upper management around, essentially the same sub level of management still retains it's previous control over a good deal of the creative aspects of the company.

While there are still some true "high quality talent" remaining at Imagineering, there is certainly no longer "plenty". And those remaining
have been slowly eliminated. I would estimate only around a half dozen of that level remain. And it's possible that at least half of them may be gone by the end of next year.

So, personally, I feel that there is a meltdown in progress (again). Whether it can be stemmed and turned around is yet to be seen.

[bfdf55]

Originally Posted by TrevorD

I thought the new DLR president was good news. Not so?

So far, Disneyland (with the new president) doesn't have any direct power over Imagineering (other than controlling what goes into their park). The issues are concerning Imagineering alone.

[TrevorD]

Oh, Ok, it was just that someone in a previous post said that all the changes including Grier's replacement were to keep "yes men" in power. I thought that it was actually the opposite with George having had been pushed out of the DLR in the past, and now coming back.

[DisneyFan28]

Originally Posted by Ron W

The new frozen drink stand is open:



A big disappointment after Edelweiss Snacks. Are they going to abandon the Victorian look on the west side of the bay and make it all plastic bubbles to match Jumpin' Jellyfish? On top of that it doesn't even look well built, just slapped together.

Frozen drinks... what kind?

[kaliwolf]

Originally Posted by TrevorD

Oh, Ok, it was just that someone in a previous post said that all the changes including Grier's replacement were to keep "yes men" in power. I thought that it was actually the opposite with George having had been pushed out of the DLR in the past, and now coming back.

Sorry to break it to you Trevor, but you just bought into the marketing crafted message of George's appointment. Hype that Al is inexplicably either buying, or actually promoting too. He may have been pushed out, but that doesn't mean he was some champion of quality. Go search for WDW1974's comments on the man, they've been backed up by CMs that worked during George's previous tenure.

[Nautilus]

Originally Posted by bfdf55

Actually, political actions often result in meltdown. There have been differing amounts of serious political actions going on at Imagineering over the past fifteen years or so, with differing level of negative effects. Everything from firing top creative Imagineers while promoting lesser ones, to subverting true creative concepts in favor if weaker, but politically acceptable ideas.

If it weren't true, how would you explain the lack creative quality applied to DCA, HKDL and DSP?

Apparently, while there have been several organizational restructuring over the past couple of decades, shuffling some upper management around, essentially the same sub level of management still retains it's previous control over a good deal of the creative aspects of the company.

While there are still some true "high quality talent" remaining at Imagineering, there is certainly no longer "plenty". And those remaining
have been slowly eliminated. I would estimate only around a half dozen of that level remain. And it's possible that at least half of them may be gone by the end of next year.

So, personally, I feel that there is a meltdown in progress (again). Whether it can be stemmed and turned around is yet to be seen.

Clearly you've never seen the amount of people working there. There isn't "around a half dozen left" that are actually good. There are actually quite a lot of people there who are just as good as people you are familiar with. (Just because you don't know them doesn't mean they don't exist). At this point "half" of them aren't going anywhere at the end of the year. I wouldn't call this a "meltdown" when only two people have left recently. Even that doesn't lessen the quality. It's all internal business that won't affect the parks creatively, but makes WDI just a tad more efficient.

[yoyoflamingo]

It seems like things are slowly imploding in the WDC. It's sad to see so many talented people go, especially if they are for political reasons.

I have also seen what Al and WDW1974 have said about the new president, and it's interesting to see the contradiction. I'm hoping for the best, but fearing the worst. Hopefully things will work out for for the parks, but I think everyone agrees that Jay needs to go first and foremost.

[TrevorD]

Originally Posted by kaliwolf

Sorry to break it to you Trevor, but you just bought into the marketing crafted message of George's appointment. Hype that Al is inexplicably either buying, or actually promoting too. He may have been pushed out, but that doesn't mean he was some champion of quality. Go search for WDW1974's comments on the man, they've been backed up by CMs that worked during George's previous tenure.

If I bought into it, why am I asking questions and comparing and contrasting statements made about him. Buying into a side would mean that I was arguing a side, where as I am still searching for the truth. I dont buy until I know.

[lighttragic]

went to the resort yesterday (saturday) Still alot of work related material in paradise bay... I doubt they will start filling again for another few days.. How do they expect to work on the swings que area while the bay is filling up.

[kaliwolf]

Originally Posted by Nautilus

Clearly you've never seen the amount of people working there. There isn't "around a half dozen left" that are actually good. There are actually quite a lot of people there who are just as good as people you are familiar with. (Just because you don't know them doesn't mean they don't exist). At this point "half" of them aren't going anywhere at the end of the year. I wouldn't call this a "meltdown" when only two people have left recently. Even that doesn't lessen the quality. It's all internal business that won't affect the parks creatively, but makes WDI just a tad more efficient.

I can't believe you're seeing this as a good thing. Various sources are now indicating that they were pushed out because they stood up for quality projects (Tim supposedly pushed hard to get the big budget Pirates/Splash hybrid put into HKDL). Valerie's dismissal is particularly disturbing, since it's being said she was raising concerns over the quality of the sculpture for outsourced AAs. Sculpture is one of the most important things for AAs, without high quality and an eye for exact detail you end up with plastic monstrosities like you see in local fairs or haunted houses. Without a watchdog on the inside, what's to keep quality from drastically going down?

I'm sure there's a lot of new talent in the halls of WDI, but there's something strong to be said of continuity. Valerie and Tim were both trained by, and have strong ties to the great designers of WED (Val's father was one of the animators on Sleeping Beauty even). At the very least they have a ton of knowledge and experience to pass onto the next generation. Without that opportunity, all that expertise is just lost to WDI. As for that next generation, they could all have more talent in their little fingers than Marc Davis or John Hench had in their whole bodies, but that might not matter. Creative talent is wasted if they are indoctrinated in a toxic political culture, and are taught that you have to "play the game" or "keep your head down" or "side with this faction" to stay employed. You get nowhere with people who can't stand up for their ideas and can only say "yes."

[Ron W]

Originally Posted by DisneyFan28

Frozen drinks... what kind?

Wild Cherry
Blue Raspberry
100% Apple Juice

[yoyoflamingo]

Originally Posted by kaliwolf

I can't believe you're seeing this as a good thing. Various sources are now indicating that they were pushed out because they stood up for quality projects (Tim supposedly pushed hard to get the big budget Pirates/Splash hybrid put into HKDL). Valerie's dismissal is particularly disturbing, since it's being said she was raising concerns over the quality of the sculpture for outsourced AAs. Sculpture is one of the most important things for AAs, without high quality and an eye for exact detail you end up with plastic monstrosities like you see in local fairs or haunted houses. Without a watchdog on the inside, what's to keep quality from drastically going down?

Valerie was mentored by Blaine Gibson, who was hand picked by Walt himself, so the expectation for quality was instilled in her from the beginning. I agree, this is bad news IMO.