Crowd Levels At Disneyland - Something NEEDS To Be Done - Thoughts of an AP Holder

[tinkermonkey]

Originally Posted by mousechild

I think his dream is the usual MiceChat dream:

Low Cost

No Crowds

Great Maintenance

Terrific Food

New Rides Every Year.


Seriously, have you seen anything new in this thread?

AidensDaddy - do you see what MouseChild did there? Got the point across and left it open for discussion. No 15 minute coffee break with left over halloween candy purely for the sugar to get thru it long disertation on what needed to be said. Take note.

Originally Posted by AidensDaddy

Maybe the term you're looking for is hypocrite.

Thank you for recognizing your own failings and why people are having a difficult time getting past that and actually finding any redeeming value in anything else you might have said. Or said but edited. Or re-said. Or might have said but it's gone now. Or thought but forgot to say. Or...

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

I honestly think that they don't do it anymore because DTD exists now. It's hard to stop people with something they bought at DTD from entering the park, without possibly pissing off the customer and the DTD retailer. And it's hard to stop someone and say you can't bring food into the park when there is someone else in line standing next to you with a bagel and coffee from La Brea Bakery.

That does make sense........points to you Bob^

[SusieP.]

Originally Posted by AidensDaddy

I've gone through my posts on this thread and done some editing on a couple of them.

Originally Posted by AidensDaddy

Please read the revised original post to answer your question.

You've just compromised a 14 page thread by changing your OP and several other posts. By all means, revise your position throughout the thread, but don't yank the rug out from under everyone who has been reading this for 2 days.

[tinkermonkey]

Good point SusieP! (when don't you have good points, though - really) If someone wants to keep arguing their point based on the original post, they should do just that. Especially if they got thru that first post. For the OP to now ask readers to read the first post again AND all 22 pages (my settings have it at 22, others have it less?) is ridiculous.

[yoyoflamingo]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

This is where you lose me, and I would imagine a number of other people. There is no logical reason why Disney would ever want an "off-season". It has no benefit to them whatsoever. I want Disney to be successful, make lots of money and put back a reasonable amount of that money into the parks to improve and expand them. They have all these assets and to not try and keep them utilized at near their optimal level all year long is just a bad business plan. As I said before, this is the reason for AP's to exist and why they will not be eliminated completely.

Where I do think you bring up some legitimate isssues that are a problem for Disney is those times of extreme overcrowding that at the least ruin the atmosphere and harm the image of the park and could potentially be dangerous. Although, I think you've overplayed this issue somewhat to the point of sounding a little alarmist.

In the end I think the best solution is pretty much what Tech has suggested and what Sed call his intermediate solution. Get rid of So Cal Select and Premium. Raise the price on the two remaining passes. As Sed says, no AP's should have access on the busiest tourist days. The overall number also does need to be reduced some because current levels allow for a crushing number of APs to randomly show up at any time.

However, I think there is an important business role for APs as well as it being a nice thing to be able to offer frequent visitors. Disney just needs to find the right balance, unfortunately with things changing in both parks it will take some time to find the right balance. We just need to be patient. Many of the things already planned are going to really help alleviate this problem.

This is the exact thing I would say, with one thing added:

Disney can't "go back" to 2 busy times per year, regardless of marketing or not. Just because they have Halloween and Christmas events doesn't guarantee the park't attendance level. The summer and Spring Break are also traditionally busy periods, but are not due to Disney (the AP has something to do with it, but not the complete whole). And, with World of Color coming in Spring, Disney have the construction walls up is a GOOD thing, since DCA wouldn't ever get its makeover if they worried about crowds, as was posted by the OP. It' s a necessity, that has to be lived with. It's not a simple project that can be started and stopped during busy times, but a multiyear project that is going to make epic changes in DCA's history. Someone HAS to inconvenienced, whether it be Christmas, summer, Spring Break, etc.

hoping this makes sense....

[SusieP.]

(It's a lot of pages, no matter what your settings are at!)

[kristibaer]

Originally Posted by mousechild

So how do you want to allocate them, bid for them? I am guessing that most people on this board wouldn't like the price.

Not that I agree 150k as a limit (we were higher than that last year and none of AP's complained like this about crowds).

BUT, if they thought about cutting the numbers of AP's, they could set a date that all AP's are done (i.e. 12/31/10). No matter when you renew next year, your pass expires 12/31/10 and is prorated to allow for the number of days available in the calendar year. Then effective 1/1/11, it's first come, first serve. No bidding, no raffles, no outrageous price increases for the privilege; they are on sale until the sell out or release half then and half six months later.

[sir clinksalot]

Originally Posted by disneyland duckies

I understand your frustration with the crowds at Disneyland, and that the payment plan for SoCal passholders has been a nightmare for attendance at the parks. But, most of the payment plan passholders are at the lowest levels of the passes. If you get yourself a copy of the blockout days calendars for SoCal Select and SoCal passes, and go when they are blocked out, you should find it a bit better. Such as Saturdays are now Waaaayyyy better than a Sunday. I don't think that Disneyland will keep the payment plan when all is said and done, so we just have to wait it out. There was a press release 2 days ago about DLR limiting annual passes to 500,000 starting in 2011, and my theory is that the payment plan passholders come in crowd up the parks, and too many of these passholders cannot afford to, and therefore are not spending money while they are there, so DLR isn't really making as much money as they thought they would, so they will pull the plug. Disney is also returning to the way things were before a trip to a Disney park meant getting something for free (i.e. year of a million dreams, & get in free on your bday) so hopefully we will see a downward trend in attendance in the coming months.

This is a great post ... and from a first time poster, even better.

And your absolutely right. Saturday's in the summer and during Halloween Time were MUCH less than a Friday Night or Sunday during the same time-frame. And I'm sure Holidaytime will be no different. Which is why we are planning on making our holiday visits on Saturday's. I'm sure it will be busy (not saying it won't be) but probably not as busy as other days.

[mousechild]

Originally Posted by kristibaer

Not that I agree 150k as a limit (we were higher than that last year and none of AP's complained like this about crowds).

BUT, if they thought about cutting the numbers of AP's, they could set a date that all AP's are done (i.e. 12/31/10). No matter when you renew next year, your pass expires 12/31/10 and is prorated to allow for the number of days available in the calendar year. Then effective 1/1/11, it's first come, first serve. No bidding, no raffles, no outrageous price increases for the privilege; they are on sale until the sell out or release half then and half six months later.

Well that isn't going to happen, Disney isn't dumb and that is no way to maximize gate receipts. It would be more like the artificially low prices for concert tickets without the secondary market. Plus you would end up with people that couldn't get all the tickets their family needs/wants. What do you want them to do have everyone line up on the esplanade for distribution on Jan 1st?

[mousechild]

Originally Posted by sir clinksalot

This is a great post ... and from a first time poster, even better.

And your absolutely right. Saturday's in the summer and during Halloween Time were MUCH less than a Friday Night or Sunday during the same time-frame. And I'm sure Holidaytime will be no different. Which is why we are planning on making our holiday visits on Saturday's. I'm sure it will be busy (not saying it won't be) but probably not as busy as other days.

So now we have to see how Disney distributes the artificial limit of 500K passes. Perhaps all AP premium, or a very limited number of lesser passes?

[kristibaer]

Originally Posted by mousechild

Well that isn't going to happen, Disney isn't dumb and that is no way to maximize gate receipts. It would be more like the artificially low prices for concert tickets without the secondary market. Plus you would end up with people that couldn't get all the tickets their family needs. What do you want them to do have everyone line up on the esplanade for distribution on Jan 1st?

It was only an offering of how they could reset the number of AP's out there. I think we all know that will never happen. They need to make the AP's harder to get so people will stop renewing.

The only way I see Disney attempting to begin to reduce the number of AP's is as many have suggested here, stop financing (especially the lower passes, $8/mo isn't necessary to finance) and review the overall AP system.

[Duck44]

Originally Posted by mousechild

So now we have to see how Disney distributes the artificial limit of 500K passes.

Only people with kids get APs?

[kristibaer]

Originally Posted by Duck44

Only people with kids get APs?

Or D23 members

[WestsideCM99]

Originally Posted by mousechild

So now we have to see how Disney distributes the artificial limit of 500K passes. Perhaps all AP premium, or a very limited number of lesser passes?

Or they could manipulate the existing base by increasing blackout dates for lesser passes like the select and socal so that they are only able to visit on non-weekend days for only 6 months out of the year, and then bumping up the prices considerably for the Deluxe and the Premium so that the lesser passholders that want to visit the park often perceive more value in the more expensive passes, but the ones that only want to visit casually will not upgrade but will at the same time not visit the park so much. This decrease the amount of APs visiting during certain seasons and maintaining profit at the same time.

[sediment]

Everything I read about reducing the number of AP's purchased/renewed is more complicated than my harebrained idea. Make it simpler than my idea, and you got a deal.

Harebrained idea:
All APs get one more renewal, starting on "X" (insert yesterday). (Maybe two more renewals. I'm not very flexible after that.)
Then we see what kind of attendance/revenue numbers can be had.