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  1. #31

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    Re: A fix for Screamin's scream tubes (with "concept art")

    Personally, I think the villan theme would have seemed very cheap. To keep with the time period, they would have had to use cutouts along the track which seem cheap, and if they decided to do AA's it would be too high tech and take away from the elegant simplicity.

    What I would do is install trellis along the hills like this and then have clear plexiglass run along the side closest to the outside world. I am beginning to wonder though if the scream tubes are more to block views of outside the park than to stop sound. The point about Knotts not having anything like this is a good point.

    Anyway, my quick sketch: (brutalized by the file compression)
    Last edited by Trevor; 11-18-2009 at 01:37 AM.

  2. #32

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    Re: A fix for Screamin's scream tubes (with "concept art")

    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorD View Post
    Personally, I think the villan theme would have seemed very cheap. To keep with the time period, they would have had to use cutouts along the track which seem cheap, and if they decided to do AA's it would be too high tech and take away from the elegant simplicity.
    I agree, I'm also glad the villains theme never came to fruition. The best approach to Screamin would be to simply accentuate its Victorian theme, as the OP has done with their revised scream tunnels. This could also be done by creating a new queue, redesigning the attraction sign, and removing all those golden "suns" from support beams of the coaster.


  3. #33

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    Re: A fix for Screamin's scream tubes (with "concept art")

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkTwain View Post
    I agree, I'm also glad the villains theme never came to fruition. The best approach to Screamin would be to simply accentuate its Victorian theme, as the OP has done with their revised scream tunnels. This could also be done by creating a new queue, redesigning the attraction sign, and removing all those golden "suns" from support beams of the coaster.
    As for the queue, I think that a tonne could be done with the coaster. (See signature..)

  4. #34

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    Re: A fix for Screamin's scream tubes (with "concept art")

    Me personally, I think all the supports on California Screamin need to be redesigned. There are way too many areas where hardware is visible such as pipes and devices used to operate the attraction. It doesn't look like a wooden coaster at all.

  5. #35

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    Re: A fix for Screamin's scream tubes (with "concept art")

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkTwain View Post
    This could also be done by creating a new queue, redesigning the attraction sign, and removing all those golden "suns" from support beams of the coaster.
    Agreed! But that's another post for another day! To some extent, the queue will be easier stylistically--put enough money behind it, make it look like a charming Victorian pavilion, and just "make it pretty." The scream tubes are more difficult in some ways because they are not at all involved in the traditional coaster, but are required by the constraints of the modern location, hence why I wanted to focus on them here.

    A similar problem is the visible pipes, etc., that were mentioned above and would have to be worked into convincing structures for a wood coaster. The plain beams could be addressed fairly easily by affixing a thin skin of woodgrain around them, but I don't know if there are photos around with sufficient detail to tackle the various visible utilities.

  6. #36

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    Re: A fix for Screamin's scream tubes (with "concept art")

    Quote Originally Posted by Seawolf View Post
    Me personally, I think all the supports on California Screamin need to be redesigned. There are way too many areas where hardware is visible such as pipes and devices used to operate the attraction. It doesn't look like a wooden coaster at all.
    Those pipes near the launch really do need to be hidden. This is a good point. Even making that square truss section solid or theming the pipe to look like a rounded and shaved log would work much better.

  7. #37

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    Re: A fix for Screamin's scream tubes (with "concept art")

    I love the concept art with snake included. This is the direction I wanted to see them take with Paradise Pier. A larger than life pierside carnival. Pleasure Island in California. I think a villians version would have worked as long as it was presented in a stylized version and not as reality.
    Women, they make the highs higher and the lows more frequent.

  8. #38

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    Re: A fix for Screamin's scream tubes (with "concept art")

    Quote Originally Posted by AGD View Post
    I'm glad that they didn't go the villains route with Screamin'--there's just too much optimism on a seaside pier that the villain theme wouldn't quite work, especially on an open-air coaster. If they were to do a villains coaster, it would need to be completely enclosed & immersive like Indiana Jones. Just having some dragons & witches tacked onto the open wooden structure of Screamin' would look like the cop-out attempts at theming found at a Six Flags.
    ACtually the idea was a bit more beyond just adding a few villian coverings. The way it was explained ot me was that Screamin would have received a new program that would have allowed WDI to actually slow down/stop the coaster cars for a few seconds in a couple key points. Those sections would have been covered with to fit in with the rest of the pier. Inside these sections the guests would have experience several special effects that put them head to head with a couple villians.

    Interesting concept if they could make it work and it came out well

  9. #39

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    Re: A fix for Screamin's scream tubes (with "concept art")

    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorD View Post
    Personally, I think the villan theme would have seemed very cheap. To keep with the time period, they would have had to use cutouts along the track which seem cheap, and if they decided to do AA's it would be too high tech and take away from the elegant simplicity.

    What I would do is install trellis along the hills like this and then have clear plexiglass run along the side closest to the outside world. I am beginning to wonder though if the scream tubes are more to block views of outside the park than to stop sound. The point about Knotts not having anything like this is a good point.

    Anyway, my quick sketch: (brutalized by the file compression)
    I like the look of that but instead of clear plexiglass i would use wood. a wooden wall would be nice. The inside of the wooden wall could have paintings of the area that guests can see as they climb the lift

  10. #40

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    Re: A fix for Screamin's scream tubes (with "concept art")

    After remembering that the scream tubes are most likely to block views of the outside world, and direct the eye toward the bay instead of LA, I agree (and meant to change my op) fully with that. I can see elaborate paintings of seasides, or even fairgrounds (think fairground art with its gold leaf boardering and stylized and ornate graphics) along the wooden wall. It wouldn't need to be very tall, just high enough to block the angles needed to see below the horizon.

  11. #41

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    Re: A fix for Screamin's scream tubes (with "concept art")

    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorD View Post
    After remembering that the scream tubes are most likely to block views of the outside world, and direct the eye toward the bay instead of LA, I agree (and meant to change my op) fully with that. I can see elaborate paintings of seasides, or even fairgrounds (think fairground art with its gold leaf boardering and stylized and ornate graphics) along the wooden wall. It wouldn't need to be very tall, just high enough to block the angles needed to see below the horizon.
    No, the tubes are there because of noise restrictions. This is a matter of public record: California Screamin' - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Furthermore, no effort has been made to block the view on other sections of the coaster where you can plainly see the outside world.

  12. #42

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    Re: A fix for Screamin's scream tubes (with "concept art")

    Quote Originally Posted by AGD View Post
    No, the tubes are there because of noise restrictions. This is a matter of public record: California Screamin' - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Furthermore, no effort has been made to block the view on other sections of the coaster where you can plainly see the outside world.
    How then does ToT and all of the Knott's rollercoasters get around this restriction?

    Wikipedia is not a valid source. This is expecially the case if it just states the fact without a citation. Anybody who heard that rumor on the internet could have added that comment to wikipedia.

  13. #43

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    Re: A fix for Screamin's scream tubes (with "concept art")

    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorD View Post
    How then does ToT and all of the Knott's rollercoasters get around this restriction?

    Wikipedia doesn't back that up enough for me.
    ToT is facing inwards towards the park. The Maliboomer, on the other hand, requires scream shields. I've never been to Knott's, so I don't know the details there...it may be a combination of any of the following factors: a) certain rides may be old enough to be "grandfathered" in (like Disneyland), b) land near Knotts may be zoned differently, c) rides may be positioned so the acoustics are not likely to affect neighbors as much.

    I've also found an article based on discussions with the principle show lighting designer at WDI, that clearly refers to a "sound tube." I think that should settle any doubts.

  14. #44

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    Re: A fix for Screamin's scream tubes (with "concept art")

    Quote Originally Posted by AGD View Post
    ToT is facing inwards towards the park. The Maliboomer, on the other hand, requires scream shields. I've never been to Knott's, so I don't know the details there...it may be a combination of any of the following factors: a) certain rides may be old enough to be "grandfathered" in (like Disneyland), b) land near Knotts may be zoned differently, c) rides may be positioned so the acoustics are not likely to affect neighbors as much.

    I've also found an article based on discussions with the principle show lighting designer at WDI, that clearly refers to a "sound tube." I think that should settle any doubts.
    Disney has been known to refer to items by the names which the public has adapted. I also doubt that ToT could avoid this argument by being pointed towards the center of the park. The park is only a few blocks long and I doubt that has any legal president to avoid glass sheilds around everything. I highly suspect that they are, if not only partially to block views. If they werent wouldn't they be clear?

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    Re: A fix for Screamin's scream tubes (with "concept art")

    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorD View Post
    Disney has been known to refer to items by the names which the public has adapted. I also doubt that ToT could avoid this argument by being pointed towards the center of the park. The park is only a few blocks long and I doubt that has any legal president to avoid glass sheilds around everything. I highly suspect that they are, if not only partially to block views. If they werent wouldn't they be clear?
    The article was from Nov. 2001. The public had not adopted anything by that time.

    And, yes, where the zones are will have a huge impact on whether noise traveling in a certain direction will be a problem--sound travels in waves, and all that.

    It was probably too expensive to make or maintain clear tubes, or they just loved that d*** teal too much in the late '90s. Any number of stylistic choices may have been made.

    Anyway, I have provided vastly more evidentiary support than is necessary for this thread, and for all the quips about Wikipedia, you are asking for significantly more research than you have offered with your posts (frankly, it's a netiquette no-no to impugn someone's references without providing links of your own).

    I think it's time we brought this back to the focus of the thread, which is incorporating the sound requirements into a more appealing design.

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