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Thread: HollywoodLand?

  1. #46

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    Re: HollywoodLand?

    Quote Originally Posted by WJNM View Post
    And again (speaking mostly to Scott here), Disney has traditionally gone with themes, not time periods (as Steve beautifully pointed out with the Frontierland example). There's not a thematic problem here if the theme is kept Hollywood-ish (be it the concept of Hollywood, as evidenced at MI:M&TTR! and Playhouse Disney, or the geographical location, as evidenced at ToT).
    That's only if you view Hollywood as something comprising only the location, and not the time period and specifics that defined certain eras. There's a huge conceptual difference between the Hollywood of the 30's-40's than the one that exists today. The Frontier Period of America spanned a much greater time period than the days of the studio system and glitz/glamour of old Hollywood, and Frontierland had much greater leniency because of it.

    Do you want evidence of this? Take a look at Fantasyland. Is there theme or time period? Sure, we're in the middle of an architecturally rich Bavarian village - are the rides contained therein (Peter Pan, Snow White, Alice, Toad, Pinocchio) fully reflective of the medieval time period or the theme of the land?
    I would argue that Fantasyland was never designed to represent a specific historical environment the way that Main Street or NOS do. It's all fairy tales and fantasy, not history.

    Look at Main Street. Is attending a speech presented by Mr. Lincoln really consistent with the turn-of-the-century time period of the architecture, or the theme of American patriotism?
    Integrating something that occurred before a specific time period is, to me, a much different matter than adding something modern. Abraham Lincoln is probably the most popular and culturally resonant President we've ever had, and his popularity at the turn of the century was through the roof. While his physical presence on a Main Street of the early 1900's isn't exactly historically accurate, it would be much different if it were "Great Moments With Mr. Clinton" instead.

    So in that sense (along with the Frontierland example), why would it be errant to see modern Disney characters referenced in the Animation attraction? Or would that be too much of a stretch?
    If you have an environment themed to the 1940's, CG characters aren't exactly the best fit. And again, I see much of this expansion/do-over trying to connect the park to Walt Disney. How does ignoring his own personal legacy in favor of Pixar characters accomplish this, I wonder?

    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorD View Post
    That is an interesing point. Let us assume that we are NOS as it is today, representing a certain time period. What is wrong with a r ide that takes us back in time? As long as the attraction is set up and executed properly, this works well. Kind of like here are the streets of NOS as they are today, but if you sail around the bend you travel back in time into the coast as it once was, full of adventure and excitement. Then you come back up out of the story and back into today.
    NOS is supposed to be "A New Orleans of a century ago, when she was the Gay Paree of the American Frontier" -Walt Disney.

    The specific time period is unspecified, but POTC effectively begins in the bayous of New Orleans of the mid 19th century, and HM is set in a haunted Antebellum Mansion with kept grounds and butlers. They are both representative of a specific themed period environment, and aren't supposed to take place in the present day.
    Last edited by Matterhorn Boy; 12-06-2009 at 04:17 PM.

  2. #47

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    Re: HollywoodLand?

    And to solve this WHOLE PROBLEM about HPB....How about changing the Main Street to 1920's/30's/40's Hollywoodland, and the area with Muppets, and Monster's Inc, turn into a Toon Studios getup? WOW...that was hard thinkin'.....
    That seems like a pretty lackluster way to do it if you ask me. The way that post sounds, you seem to be saying that Imagineering is easy.. If it were so simple, DCA 1 would not have happened. Why would that area of Hollywood in that era have a toon studio where you rode on a taxi or watched a stage show that goes bad quickly. There are much better ways to undertake the theming if this area and they would take loads of intricate thought and planning. For example the muppets theater could be redressed as one of Hollywoods gala theaters, while Monsters Inc. was torn out.

    Quote Originally Posted by MainSreetJake View Post
    NOS is supposed to be "A New Orleans of a century ago, when she was the Gay Paree of the American Frontier" -Walt Disney.

    The specific time period is unspecified, but POTC effectively begins in the bayous of New Orleans of the mid 19th century, and HM is set in a haunted Antebellum Mansion with kept grounds and butlers. They are both representative of a specific themed period environment, and aren't supposed to take place in the present day.
    I know that. I mean as they are today as in how the park is currently reflecting the theme, not that NOS is supposed to be modern. Sorry, I realize that that is rather confusing the way it is worded. In any case, that does not change that rides can effectivly take us out of the time period specified as long as the story seamlessly works it in. An example being Indy. Sure, Adventureland has no specific timeline tied to it, but the queue and backstory are very good at moving you back to the time of exploration.

  3. #48

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    Re: HollywoodLand?

    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorD View Post
    That seems like a pretty lackluster way to do it if you ask me. The way that post sounds, you seem to be saying that Imagineering is easy.. If it were so simple, DCA 1 would not have happened. Why would that area of Hollywood in that era have a toon studio where you rode on a taxi or watched a stage show that goes bad quickly. There are much better ways to undertake the theming if this area and they would take loads of intricate thought and planning. For example the muppets theater could be redressed as one of Hollywoods gala theaters, while Monsters Inc. was torn out.
    I was just giving a cheap example, which would be fast, and easy to alleviate the problem of the said themeing conflict. I agree with you that the rides can take us out of the "real" and into the "fantasy". I think the Gala Theater is a good idea, actually. And monsters really does need to be torn out, and something better put in it's place. Something C-D ticket level. Any ideas?

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    Re: HollywoodLand?

    I think it might be cool if they replaced Monsters with a non Disney, non Pixar property. I have a feeling if anything new were to be put in the HPB it would the American Idol Experience show that is at DHS. Disney did the same with Millionaire...

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    Re: HollywoodLand?

    Quote Originally Posted by MainSreetJake View Post
    I was just giving a cheap example, which would be fast, and easy to alleviate the problem of the said theming conflict. I agree with you that the rides can take us out of the "real" and into the "fantasy". I think the Gala Theater is a good idea, actually. And monsters really does need to be torn out, and something better put in it's place. Something C-D ticket level. Any ideas?
    [The original DCA was a] cheap example, which would be fast, and easy to alleviate the problem of [lost profits due to the lack of a resort in CA, which would create] the said theming conflict.

    See how this thinking is so easy to fall into? Heck, Disney did it first! I know I do it too. It plagued me when I joined the forum believing that my ideas were the best and I would one day be the greatest Imagineer Disney ever hired. I'm glad I realized that here instead of after receiving a "better luck next time" letter from Disney. The time invested in creating an idea that is cohesive and well explained is important as it avoids criticism like that which I received in the Paradise Pier Thread in my sig. I'm proud of those ideas, but I destroyed them by failing to address issues or provide depth. It forced me into massive overhauls which confused and distorted the intension of the ideas.

    Don't think that I don't like your ideas or posts. I took all of the feedback I received early in my tenure here personally and was really affected by it. I was so mad at Data that I barely realized that what I appreciated about Disney was right in line with he. I don't know if hes just putting up with me now, but feedback from him and others is what saved my creativity from a sad death.

    If the touchy feely isn't doing it for you, lets sum it up by saying why use a cheap fix to fix a cheap fix? The leak always starts again at the patch.

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    Re: HollywoodLand?

    Quote Originally Posted by jcman3777 View Post
    I think it might be cool if they replaced Monsters with a non Disney, non Pixar property. I have a feeling if anything new were to be put in the HPB it would the American Idol Experience show that is at DHS. Disney did the same with Millionaire...
    Millionaire was on ABC, which Disney owns. Its true though, and there are a million stories waiting to be told among the "glimmering streets of Hollywood in its golden age." Idealistically it would not be a ride that can be justified through some secondary source.

    The difference between secondary and primary that I mean to highlight here is this:

    "Welcome to the Hollywood Theater, we are going to watch a play/movie about a haunted hotel"
    "Welcome to the Hollywood Backlot, the following ride will be an action ride, because Hollywood makes action movies which recreate this stuff."

    vs.

    "Welcome to the Hollywood Tower Hotel, right this way to the elevator to your floor"

    The first examples clearly abuses the theme of Hollywood with the theater and backlot tie ins. Sure, it is location accurate and all that, but what a cop out when it comes to creativity. Where as the second forms the basis for one of the resorts most popular and imersive rides.. Big big difference.
    Last edited by Trevor; 12-07-2009 at 03:27 AM.

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    Re: HollywoodLand?

    I think we're really spinning our wheels here trying to nail down a specific time period or theme for "Hollywoodland." The "theme" of Hollywoodland shouldn't be Hollywood itself or Buena Vista Street or the LA of the 20s or 30s or 40s. This is all way too constricting.

    Hollywoodland should represent the idea of Hollywood. The place where dreams came true; the Emerald City that midwesterners like Dorothy (and Walt) fantasized about before begining their adventurous journeys that took them there. The bright place where one could get "discovered" while sipping a soda at the Top Hat Cafe, or the dark place behind the pebbled glass door in the Cahuenga Building where Phillip Marlowe swigged shots of rot gut.

    This could be the Hollywood of the 1920s, or the Hollywood where Lucy swiped the Duke's footprints from Graumann's. There's a lot of material here, a lot of story, romance and adventure. If Disney focuses on the idea of Hollywood, it should be a success.

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    Re: HollywoodLand?

    Similar to Great Movie Ride !
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    Re: HollywoodLand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    I think we're really spinning our wheels here trying to nail down a specific time period or theme for "Hollywoodland." The "theme" of Hollywoodland shouldn't be Hollywood itself or Buena Vista Street or the LA of the 20s or 30s or 40s. This is all way too constricting.

    Hollywoodland should represent the idea of Hollywood. The place where dreams came true; the Emerald City that midwesterners like Dorothy (and Walt) fantasized about before begining their adventurous journeys that took them there. The bright place where one could get "discovered" while sipping a soda at the Top Hat Cafe, or the dark place behind the pebbled glass door in the Cahuenga Building where Phillip Marlowe swigged shots of rot gut.

    This could be the Hollywood of the 1920s, or the Hollywood where Lucy swiped the Duke's footprints from Graumann's. There's a lot of material here, a lot of story, romance and adventure. If Disney focuses on the idea of Hollywood, it should be a success.
    I for your concept and Ideal!
    But get rid of the fake building's fronts...if I want to see that kind of stuff then I go to -ush!
    make it look like Hollywood in the 20's 30's!
    Soaring like an EAGLE !

  10. #55

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    Re: HollywoodLand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleman View Post
    I for your concept and Ideal!
    But get rid of the fake building's fronts...if I want to see that kind of stuff then I go to -ush!
    make it look like Hollywood in the 20's 30's!

    Doing HollywoodLand properly would be to make the buidlings serve a purpose. The problem with a good portion of it is the Disney Animation Building which takes up a big chunk of real estate. That is why the facades are there and that is why you have a fake studio wall leading up to Tower of Terror.

    That will be an interesting challenge for the Imagineers.


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    Re: HollywoodLand?

    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorD View Post
    Millionaire was on ABC, which Disney owns. Its true though, and there are a million stories waiting to be told among the "glimmering streets of Hollywood in its golden age." Idealistically it would not be a ride that can be justified through some secondary source.

    The difference between secondary and primary that I mean to highlight here is this:

    "Welcome to the Hollywood Theater, we are going to watch a play/movie about a haunted hotel"
    "Welcome to the Hollywood Backlot, the following ride will be an action ride, because Hollywood makes action movies which recreate this stuff."

    vs.

    "Welcome to the Hollywood Tower Hotel, right this way to the elevator to your floor"

    The first examples clearly abuses the theme of Hollywood with the theater and backlot tie ins. Sure, it is location accurate and all that, but what a cop out when it comes to creativity. Where as the second forms the basis for one of the resorts most popular and immersive rides.. Big big difference.
    You understand what I meant about Millionaire though. An ABC show doesn't have Disney branded characters. It would show a bit of edge to the Hollywod section.

    And yes I understand the difference. It is the difference of being IN your own movie and seeing how it is all done. DHS does both. Why can't DCA do that as well? They kind of already do. Disney Animation. Hyperion Theater.

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    Re: HollywoodLand?

    DCA only got "Millionaire" because there wasn't enough to do. It was a last ditch effort after its grand opening to get more attractions into the park.

    I do agree that there should be more non-franchise attractions in Hollywood area but I wouldn't want to use "millionaire" as an example.


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    Re: HollywoodLand?

    I see nothing wrong with the name its a fitting tribute to the area known as hollywoodland way back when
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    Re: HollywoodLand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    DCA only got "Millionaire" because there wasn't enough to do. It was a last ditch effort after its grand opening to get more attractions into the park.

    I do agree that there should be more non-franchise attractions in Hollywood area but I wouldn't want to use "millionaire" as an example.
    Yeah. Millionaire was a bad example.

    If Disney were to use one it would probably be American Idol Experience. Seeing as it is new and popular at DHS.

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    Re: HollywoodLand?

    Quote Originally Posted by jcman3777 View Post
    Yeah. Millionaire was a bad example.

    If Disney were to use one it would probably be American Idol Experience. Seeing as it is new and popular at DHS.

    LOL, I'm going to say American Idol is an even worse example because

    a) it's not Disney
    b) it's pure filler
    c) it wasn't a last ditch effort, so they actually PLANNED for it



    It being Hollywood and Disney, there's a ton of things they can do but I'm ultimately looking forward most to the new direction of the land. A good premise is key, everything else will follow.

    With the land called "hollywood pictures backlot", making it cheap and fake is all part of the theme. Once they get rid of that, I'm sure the ideas implemented will be stronger ones.


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