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  1. #61

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    Re: Mass Transit to Disneyland Resort

    The Red Gold Blue and Green lines work great although I haven't been on the Orange line buses yet. But we need something to link up OC to the Metro Rail system. If Irvine gets light rail, and it connects to Santa Ana and Anaheim then it could eventually link up to the LA system.

    Metrolink (Amtrak) trains do go to Anaheim but unless they alter the course so it goes to Downtown Disney, or get an Anaheim light rail link working, I dont see people using it to get to the Mouse.

    If it linked up the stadiums and theme parks it could work to get people on Metrolink, which serves everything from Palmdale to Ontario to Ventura to San Diego. I don't conjure him up often but I think Walt Disney would LOVE a rail link up for the Disneyland Resort.

  2. #62

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    Re: Mass Transit to Disneyland Resort

    Light rail is much more expensive, has a problem with accidents where crossings occur, and doesn't have anymore payload capability than a monorail system.

    The monorails are safer (no crossings), smaller footprint, take a fraction of the time to construct, and just as effective.

    Oh yeah, and the light rail projects are money generators for contractors. That's why politicians don't support the monorails - not enough cost overruns or pork...

  3. #63

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    Re: Mass Transit to Disneyland Resort

    Interesting theory... However, I do know that Seattle was going to build a metropolitan monorail but it ended up being a lot more expensive than light rail, so they are building at ground light rail between downtown and the airport. Monorails were studied for decades in Southern California, yet outside of Disneyland none were ever built.

  4. #64

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    Re: Mass Transit to Disneyland Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer
    Interesting theory... However, I do know that Seattle was going to build a metropolitan monorail but it ended up being a lot more expensive than light rail, so they are building at ground light rail between downtown and the airport. Monorails were studied for decades in Southern California, yet outside of Disneyland none were ever built.
    Unless you mean outside Disneyland and only in Southern California. If not I take it you have not been to Seattle, Las Vegas, Hawaii, Tampa, Newark, or Jacksonville recently... And those don't include the various amusement parks, zoos, and State Fairs. Our very own California Exposition has a monorail that unfortunately only runs during the fair.

    That's only in the U.S. - you're forgetting about the monorails in Japan, Europe, Asia, Canada, South America, and Austrailia.

    Check out the Monorail Society for info.

    Here are the facts on monorail costs by comparison...


    Heavy Rail / Subway
    Contractors and rail consultants love heavy rail. It keeps them busy for years and brings in the big bucks. You pay for it Mr. Taxpayer. As if that isn't enough, operational costs of heavy rail are so high that Mr. Taxpayer (you again) have to subsidize it for as long as it operates.

    Light Rail (trolley)
    Light Rail must have drivers; that costs more. Steel wheels and steel track require constant care. Light Rail doesn't operate at a profit. And what is the cost of human life? Certainly life is more important than the millions taxpayers fork out in lawsuit settlements from tragic Light Rail accidents.

    MONORAIL

    While capital costs can be as much as or more than light rail, monorail can turn a profit once built. The Tokyo Monorail is operated by a private business and turns a profit each year. This is unheard of with conventional rail or bus systems. The Seattle Monorail also turns a profit each year.

    I will verify that Regional Transit’s light rail here in Sacramento is a money loser, yet they continue to expand the system. The political entities don’t necessarily make the best future focused decisions based on proven track records, but often on which contractors/real estate investors will profit from the venture.

  5. #65

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    Re: Mass Transit to Disneyland Resort

    The Seattle Monorail is a joke, it goes from Westlake Center to the Space Needle and it doesn't operate cause both the trains collided into each other last year. And they were going to tear it out for the metropolitan monorail but that plan has been scrapped as it was going to take over 30 years to pay off the monorail bonds with the car tab tax.

    Oh and Las Vegas, it connects the various hotels on the strip, much like a certain FLORIDA monorail system near Orlando. Those don't count.

  6. #66

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    Re: Mass Transit to Disneyland Resort

    I just got my license today. That means if I wanted to do anything I'd need rides or take Metrolink. It's never been that bad for me.

    I went to UniHo a couple of weeks ago using public transit, and it wasn't too bad. Got the Metrolink from San Bernardino to Union then the red line to the park; well, we had to wait for a tram to get up the hill. The whole trip took about two hours from train leaving SB to the park.

    I've also went to Santa Monica using public transportation, and it would have been much much much better if we got one of the more direct buses (like the SM10 from Union) cause it took us around three hours to get there (an hour from San Bernardino to Union, another two on that damn bus)

    I am going to try the whole Metrolink to Disneyland thing on Friday. I'm taking the 91 line from San Bernardino, switching trains at Orange, then getting the OCTA 430 WEST to the park near the Anaheim station. I just hope it's as easy as I'm making it out to be in my head and on paper.


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  7. #67

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    Re: Mass Transit to Disneyland Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer
    The Seattle Monorail is a joke, it goes from Westlake Center to the Space Needle and it doesn't operate cause both the trains collided into each other last year. And they were going to tear it out for the metropolitan monorail but that plan has been scrapped as it was going to take over 30 years to pay off the monorail bonds with the car tab tax.

    Oh and Las Vegas, it connects the various hotels on the strip, much like a certain FLORIDA monorail system near Orlando. Those don't count.
    That's because the car tab tax was a stupid idea in the first place.

    The risk analysis study done at the behest of Seattle City Council Member Richard Conlin and solicited by the city (not by the ETC, as the Weekly reported) found it 90 percent likely that the 1.4 percent monorail tax would cover those costs.

    So Vegas doesn't count because it only connects Hotels? Doesn't major metro light rail so a similar function? How do you measure "counting"? only by where it goes? By how long it is? How many passengers it carries? How much money it makes?

    LAS VEGAS – The Las Vegas Monorail announced recently that it carried its 10 millionth passenger since opening the four-mile, driverless, state-of-the-art urban transportation system along the east side of the famous Las Vegas Strip in 2004. The Robert N. Broadbent Las Vegas Monorail announced its monthly ridership and revenue figures for October, logging more than 893,000 passengers for the month and carrying an average of 28,820 passengers per day. Daily revenues averaged $84,507.

    I can see why you don't want to count it - it proves you are wrong...
    Last edited by Sambo; 02-16-2006 at 07:35 PM.

  8. #68

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    Re: Mass Transit to Disneyland Resort

    Dude, monorails are Disneyland rides. The one built for Seattle's 60s Worlds Fair and the one connecting the themed resort hotels of Vegas are also "rides" more than real mass transit, because they cater to tourists who are hopping from attraction to attraction. Show me a city in America where people hop on the monorail and read their paper on the commute to and from Downtown at 8 am and 5 pm. It just doesn't exist. And nobody in Southern California is considering building a monorail line anywhere, to my knowledge so what does it matter?

  9. #69

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    Re: Mass Transit to Disneyland Resort

    Wouldn't you like to hop on the monorail and read your paper on the commute to and from Downtown at 8 am and 5 pm? The fact that nobody in Southern California is considering building a monorail line anywhere - is exactly why it matters.

    28,820 passengers per day. That's a pretty good "ride". Our local light rail that spans many miles can't even begin to dream of ridership like that. It's all about moving people from point A to point B - regardless of the reason.

    So because here in America we like to hang on to pork projects and have given up our visionary innovator nation status, and only have monorail systems averaging less than four miles, still doesn't mean it is a bad idea. That the rest of the world is outpacing us not only in monorail deployment, but many other areas where we used to be king (steel, manufacturing, electronics, telephony, television, etc, etc...) isn't the fault of the monorail - It is a fundamental lack of leadership. Something else we used to be leaders in...

    I love my country, but it's insistance on status quo as a plan for the future saddens me. That people throw in the towel so easily saddens me even more.

  10. #70

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    Cool Re: Mass Transit to Disneyland Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by Escapé
    HA!!!

    I love your enthusiasm ......... and I'm so sad to admit (as an oc native and SoCal guy my whole life) that it is a total joke SoCal is so behind in mass transit!

    Throughout the 60s, 70s .. and into the 80s .. there have been lots and lots of proposals.

    Many different light rail .. peoplemover .. and monorail ideas over the years .. and they just keep being shot down .. over, and over .. and again .. and again. And here we are at the beginning of the 21st Century .. and .. DIDDLY! Yet .. other regions of the planet .. as you mention .. have had many mass transit options for DECADES.

    I have to say the most notable plan that was pushed to a great degree was the Anaheim Transportation Center in the mid/late 80s. A "maglev" train to Las Vegas .. monorail to Disneyland .. among other transport nicities was all part of this massive transportation hub. It was more like a huge hall .. in the blue prints. More like the "Starfleet Academy" scenes from the first Star Trek film. Very ambitious. It would have gone where the CinemaDome theaters along the banks of the Santa Ana River.

    So .. it's pretty amazing .. 3 decades of some intense mass transit planning .... and the freeways aren't getting any better .. except worse!

    We can blame the automobile lobbyists back in the 40s and 50s .. who helped to dismantle the Red Car line .. in favor of freeways.

    IF the Red Car line was left in place ... along WITH Freeways .. we would have had extended systems going in other places ... that would be a HELP!!

    The Red Car was this:


    And this was how extensive it was .. with lines running here into Orange County








    Here it is on the left edge of the pic .. here on the Balboa peninsula .. here in Orange County



    This system (which permantly closed in 1962) ... Had the right-of-way was left alone .. would be a help to the tremendous strain on freeways today.

    And imagine several lines connecting the DLR resort in all directions of Orange County ... leading into LA as well.

    Some right-of-ways are being reclaimed for mass transit systems for the future.

    But unless the constant red-tape ends ... It will continue to be "A dream away".
    Can you post just a blow up of that map? That is so cool. Wish I had that map. Better yet.... I wish those lines were still going today!

  11. #71

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    Re: Mass Transit to Disneyland Resort

    awwww that went out to Redlands.

    Well, it was extremely easy to get to DL from here, it's just slightly inconvenient the time the trains leave (I had to get up at 5AM!!) and the return isn't that good either. Lukily I didn't have to worry about that this time.
    "Tonight I wash my hands of you
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  12. #72

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    Re: Mass Transit to Disneyland Resort

    Can you take Metrolink to Union Station and then to Anaheim?

  13. #73

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    Re: Mass Transit to Disneyland Resort

    Yes, after you get to union, just get the Orange County line toward Oceanside. The Anaheim station is on the way and the 430 OCTA bus is right outside the station and it's free with your Metrolink ticket. You can get off a few different places and just walk the rest of the way, very simple.

    You can also get off at the Fullerton Station and figure out OCTA from there. I haven't done that, but it gives you an extra train to take. www.OCTA.net is great for helping with the part after taking the Metrolink.

    EDIT 1: And if someone hasn't already posted it, here is the website for the Metrolink.

    EDIT 2: The 430 OCTA only runs from 6:31AM to 8:35AM leaving pretty much a few minutes after each train arrives, and running the other way it only runs 3:40 to 5:53PM. And also just a reminder, the trains and busses only run Mon-Fri.

    yeah, it sucks not having a car.
    Last edited by Hector; 02-26-2006 at 03:18 PM.
    "Tonight I wash my hands of you
    You set the bar I could not live up to
    Tonight the light is breaking through
    So thank you very little and send me postcards from hell"
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  14. #74

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    Re: Mass Transit to Disneyland Resort

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer
    Can you take Metrolink to Union Station and then to Anaheim?
    Yes.
    But, do note that the trains generally go toward Union Station in the morning, and generally go away from Union Station in the evening. This appears to be opposite of what you want to do.
    Times leaving From Union Station to Fullerton: 6:25AM, 6:44AM, 8:00AM, 12:45PM. The latter two will go to Santa Ana.

    Last train out of Fullerton to Union Station: 6:39PM. Amtrak might have later trains.
    And do note that two or more people might be able to split a day's rental car and come and go as they please for less. (Or, the coming and going as they please might be worth the extra cost.)
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  15. #75

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    Re: Mass Transit to Disneyland Resort

    http://www.latimes.com/services/site...login.register
    From the Los Angeles Times
    O.C. Cities Explore Transit Options
    By David Reyes
    Times Staff Writer

    February 28, 2006

    Orange County residents who live a long way from a Metrolink station may soon be able to ride a bus to and from the nearest one. And train riders without a car may get help going to Orange County's beaches, theme parks and major shopping centers.

    Orange County transportation officials, looking for transit ideas, turned over the search to the county's 34 cities, giving them each $100,000 to develop ideas that would enhance Metrolink service.

    In Buena Park, which is building a Metrolink station, the city may join Cypress and La Palma, cities that lack commuter rail service, and plan bus shuttles and park-and-ride locations to the station.

    In Newport Beach, a shuttle from the nearby Irvine Metrolink station could run twice a day, looping to Newport Center, where there are hundreds of workers.

    In Orange, the city could provide buses to carry workers from the downtown Metrolink station to UCI Medical Center, the Block and Children's Hospital of Orange.

    These ideas, which have not gone before city councils, were mentioned in interviews after the Orange County Transportation Authority's action.

    The authority has $30 million to improve Metrolink service in the county, said Carolyn Cavecche, an Orange councilwoman on the county transit board.

    "For Orange, it's possible to have bus transportation from our Metrolink station to the two hospital areas and also the Block," Cavecche said. "However, I wouldn't propose a transportation idea without first securing consistent funding, more than just for one year."

    OCTA Chairman Arthur Brown, who is Buena Park's mayor, said he would like several nearby cities to join Buena Park on Metrolink ideas.

    Instead of building parking structures, Brown said, it's cheaper to increase bus service to major employers in nearby cities or to major attractions like Knott's Berry Farm.

    Newport Beach officials have talked about a joint project with Irvine, such as a bus connector that loops twice a day from the station to Newport Center, where thousands are employed, said Richard Edmonston, Newport Beach traffic engineer.

    "Because many people work long hours and don't always leave their offices at 5 p.m., we would need a service that offers flexibility, and maybe a Metrolink tie might work," he said. ...


    Article continues on LATimes.com (regarding widening I-5 to LA County line)

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