Mass Transit to Disneyland Resort

[sediment]

You are talking about the RR. And elevating the track would also make it more expensive. Since I am a cynical person I am willing to bet that UP will use the safety issue to drive a hard bargain. I also not aware of the railroads in this country being worried about public goodwill.

Now as far as elevated tracks go I can't believe that UP would find a high speed train above its tracks to be safer. Lets face it the planners should have included UP in the engineering studies from the start. Doesn't seem like they did and now the price must be paid.

Well, if the elevated train derails, it would roll off and away from the U.P. lines.
No price will be paid, since the HSR will never be built.

[CaliforniaAdventurer]

Just as the North South maglev hits a snag with the Union Pacific RR:

Levitating train from L.A. to Las Vegas gets boost

Plans for a levitating train from Las Vegas to Disneyland can move forward under a transportation bill signed by President Bush on Friday that frees up $45 million for the futuristic project.


Derided by critics as pie in the sky, the train would use magnetic levitation technology to carry passengers from Disneyland to Las Vegas in well under two hours, traveling at speeds of up to 300 mph. It would be the first MagLev system in the U.S.

The money is the largest cash infusion in the project's nearly 20-year history. It will pay for environmental studies for the first leg of the project.
The money had been delayed by a drafting error in Congress' 2005 highway bill, which was corrected along with some other changes by the legislation signed Friday by Bush. The delay had allowed a competing and cheaper diesel-electric plan to emerge as an alternative, but with the money now freed up supporters hope to move forward with the MagLev plan.

The train is meant to ease traffic on increasingly clogged Interstate 15, the main route for the millions of Southern Californians who make the 250-plus-mile drive to Las Vegas each year. There is no train on the route—Amtrak's Desert Wind between Los Angeles and Las Vegas was canceled in 1997 because of low ridership.
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., praised passage of the law, saying the MagLev project "will safely and efficiently move people between Southern California and Las Vegas."

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

[sediment]

Just as the North South maglev hits a snag with the Union Pacific RR:

Levitating train from L.A. to Las Vegas gets boost



http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

Wow, $45 million. Wow. (Note lack of exclamation points.)
You'd think that the State of Nevada would pony up a ton of money for this. I'd certainly ride it, especially at these current gas prices.
My suggestion:
Start building it from Vegas. Every 50 miles or so of completion, open it up to public, near a large empty parking lot. Wean them off the car.
Also: small trains, every 15 minutes or so. Not large trains every hour or so. It's electric, so there is less a need for a large engine pulling it to maximize economies of scale.

[Bruce Bergman]

Wow, $45 million. Wow. (Note lack of exclamation points.)
You'd think that the State of Nevada would pony up a ton of money for this. I'd certainly ride it, especially at these current gas prices.
My suggestion:
Start building it from Vegas. Every 50 miles or so of completion, open it up to public, near a large empty parking lot. Wean them off the car.
Also: small trains, every 15 minutes or so. Not large trains every hour or so. It's electric, so there is less a need for a large engine pulling it to maximize economies of scale.

1: $45 million isn't much. Would be enough to do the engineering and the prototyping work, perhaps build a full-scale engineering mock-up of the rails and catenary... And it's going to cost a LOT more if they can't follow the existing railroad ROW and have to blaze all new routes. And build all new access roads and utility infrastructure to support it...

2. Nevada should be ponying up a substantial percentage in matching funds, considering that all the Casinos will be the major beneficiaries of the line. But they're perfectly happy right now not paying anything extra for Federally funded highways to funnel the rubes to them.

3: The "Build Backwards, open stations" plan would be perfect, and would encourage rail commuting too - but if build intermediate stations the main line has to be double-tracked. And triple tracked on the grades where freight trains would slow down. And they have to put the stations on sidings way off to the side from the mainline - preferably behind safety berms or block walls.

So when the route is completed there are "Express" trains that go straight through, and "Local" trains that can stop in Stateline, Searchlight, Baker, Apple Valley, etc. and the Express can go by while the Local is in one of the stations. And the freight has their own track so they can just keep chugging.

--<< Bruce >>--

[sediment]

I was thinking that new maglev train would require its own tracks.

As for stops: No need for non-express trains. Maybe one week every day, or for some number of hours per day there would be non-express trains. The rest of the time it's all express, all the time. Simply put, those towns don't need stops. They'll go the way of Radiator Springs, should rail replace the interstate (which I doubt).
It will be less cost and fewer logistics to build only two tracks, and not a third or fourth line.

[CaliforniaAdventurer]

fight over the Expo Line, Part 3

Re: the controversy surrounding at-grade crossings on the first phase of the Expo Line, the light rail line under construction between downtown Los Angeles and Culver City. (Click here for Part 1, and here for Part 2).

Today I want to look ahead a bit to the second phase of the project, which is planned to extend the line from Culver City to downtown Santa Monica by the middle of the next decade. If completed, it would be the first modern rail line to travel the entirety of the Westside to downtown L.A…

….It's not exactly thrilling stuff, but if you've ever wondered how decisions are made about where light rail goes and how it's built, the answer is that it's often done years ahead of time -- and is the result of discussions and arguments like the one detailed above.

What do you think about the Expo Line and where it should go?

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/bott...r--1.html#more

[CaliforniaAdventurer]

Proposed routes of the project:

[CaliforniaAdventurer]

Why can't they make the Expo line swing by the airport (LAX) on it's way to Santa Monica.

[sediment]

I know it's not you who is asking, but:

I want the Expo Line to turn southwest along Culver Blvd, all the way to the ocean, then turn left (heading SSE) at Vista Del Mar, turn left (heading E) and tunnel under LAX to a station (under the International Terminal) that meets with the underground, driverless transit loop that goes to each of the terminals.
Security clearance and baggage check there at the station before entering driverless transit loop, which will take you to under the gates (past security).
The extended Green Line will also end at this station. It will follow Imperial Blvd to Vista Del Mar, turn right, then right again, using the same tunnels.

[CaliforniaAdventurer]

Sediment for MTA Commissioner ! ! !

[Bruce Bergman]

I was thinking that new maglev train would require its own tracks.

If they go Maglev, it would require seperate tracks. But if they wait for Maglev to be out of the laboratory and ready for use, it'll be 50 years and we'll still be waiting - Every time they think they've solved one problem, they discover three more. Power consumption and magnet current control and flight-height control is a problem, and carrying around liquid nitrogen for superconductive magnets...

They could build standard High Speed Rail TGV-style next to the Freight tracks, using steel wheels rolling on welded steel tracks and concrete sleepers, and start Now. And be Open inside of 10 years.

It could go either way - dual high-speed lines following the ROW and to one side of the freight rails OR one high-speed line and leave the old line in place for freight.

But it's a lot safer to have one high-speed track for Eastbound and one for Westbound - less chances for unintended meetings at 300MPH closing speeds...

As for stops: No need for non-express trains. Maybe one week every day, or for some number of hours per day there would be non-express trains. The rest of the time it's all express, all the time. Simply put, those towns don't need stops. They'll go the way of Radiator Springs, should rail replace the interstate (which I doubt).
It will be less cost and fewer logistics to build only two tracks, and not a third or fourth line.

No intermediate stops? No local train service? Aaaaaand your proposed line just got shot down in flames at the ballot box - those people in "Flyover Country" vote, too. And they might want to keep living in Baker and commute into Vegas or Orange County for work or school. Or catch a flight at McCarran or LAX or SNA.

The original proposal was build in ~50 mile sections and make a new terminal and a big parking lot as you build out the system. You don't want to do all that, and not leave those stations in place as local line stations.

--<< Bruce >>--

[sediment]

No intermediate stops? No local train service? Aaaaaand your proposed line just got shot down in flames at the ballot box - those people in "Flyover Country" vote, too. And they might want to keep living in Baker and commute into Vegas or Orange County for work or school. Or catch a flight at McCarran or LAX or SNA.

The original proposal was build in ~50 mile sections and make a new terminal and a big parking lot as you build out the system. You don't want to do all that, and not leave those stations in place as local line stations.

--<< Bruce >>--

If there is a demand for local service, then there will be local service. I'd rather not have to build extra tracks just to accommodate that. The logistics for scheduling could be a nightmare. My tiny brain can only think of my time span idea, where there are one- or two-hour spans in which there is either express or local, but not both. At 300mph, it's less than an hour from Apple Valley (last planned stop until the decision to go west or south or both is made). So, for two hours there is express service -- eight trains 15 minutes apart. For the next two hours, local service. Local service might add a half-hour to the trip (six stops five minutes each, plus some deceleration and acceleration time). and back and forth the rest of the day. There's some godawful casino shift starting at 4AM. Make sure there are a few trains arriving at that time from Baker and the like.

Meh. They vote, but numbers count when voting. Guess how many people live in Baker, CA?

Spoiler

914

So, how wide are the rights of way? Or, what is the thinnest spot?

[sediment]

Stations can be very temporary. Giant quonset hut to shield the sun. Slab of parking lot cement, to be converted into less of a parking lot and more of a quaint stop on the way to Vegas. (Outlet stores, for example -- remember the trains come every 15 minutes.)

The city with the temporary stop can be made to pay some for the stop to become permanent.
Do note that I'm not in charge of this. I merely make up ideas. Someone else has to make them a reality.

[Bruce Bergman]

The whole idea of putting the station platform on a siding is just like putting off-ramps and on-ramps on a freeway. The Local pulls in to the station for it's stop, they re-line the switches for the main, and the Express zooms by on the mainline at full speed. Then the Local pulls out and goes to the next Local stop. They might have to space the expresses 20 minutes apart to allow for the Local to dart between stations between Expresses.

Or, they could have each train stop at one of the intermediate stations in rotation on the mid-day runs, play Hopscotch. The little towns still get service, and you don't delay any one train too much.

That population count is misleading - that might be people inside the City Limits, but there's lots more little homesteads out in the desert and hills within an hour's drive. Even Noplace is getting crowded.

For regular railroads you need roughly 16' wide for each track, and with the Highspeed you'd want a little more space between rails with 200 MPH traffic going in opposite directions. No fair if a combination of strong prevailing desert winds and opposing train generated winds blows one of the trains off the track as they pass...

Most of the time they can take new space to widen the ROW strip if needed, it's all open desert. Although the direction they can go from the existing track roadbed gets dictated by which side the highway or mountain is on.

(They might have to shift the regular tracks over to always put the Highspeed on the north side of the Freight tracks. You really don't want the Highspeed and Freight tracks crossing each other, if they get the timing wrong that would get REALLY messy.)

--<< Bruce >>--

[sediment]

Pop of whole ZIP code that includes Baker: 992 (2005 est.).

Now, with a high-speed rail connecting to Vegas, one can expect a boom of some sort, assuming enough water is accessible. Certainly, solar energy can be had, though running that many air conditioners at a time will not be feasible.
(I'd dig into a mountain, make a cave-like house.)
In short, it is inhospitable for most normal people.

That choreography of express/local seems scary in my hyperactive imagination. Timing the express to be passing just as the local one is stopped? All the time?
Let me think a little harder: suppose there was one local per hour. It leaves its starting point. Express leaves, say, five minutes later. (Not sure that is a safe distance. but bear with me.) First stop will have to take at least five minutes, but if the siding's rail line were five minutes long (16 miles, assuming 200mph), then the local train could slow down without affecting the speed of the train behind it.
I'm thinking maybe one local per hour, four express per hour. Again, small-length trains at first. Get longer ones as needed.