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  1. #106

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    Re: Hollywoodland Armchair Imagineering E-Ticket Concept

    Quote Originally Posted by MistaDee View Post
    Well now that the track layout is pretty much wrapped up we should start fleshing out each of the scenes. Sound good?
    I have a concept for another attraction that I'm currently trying to finish up--2-1/2 more renderings to go!!! (plus explanations )--so I'm going to focus on that for a bit. But, if I have any new ideas for this one I'll jot them down.
    My Armchair Imagineering threads:
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  2. #107

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    Re: Hollywoodland Armchair Imagineering E-Ticket Concept

    Quote Originally Posted by AGD View Post
    I have a concept for another attraction that I'm currently trying to finish up--2-1/2 more renderings to go!!! (plus explanations )--so I'm going to focus on that for a bit. But, if I have any new ideas for this one I'll jot them down.
    Alright I'll be looking forward to that.
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  3. #108

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    Re: Hollywoodland Armchair Imagineering E-Ticket Concept

    I really like this idea and think it would work great in the park. There's a lot of savvy people on this forum so what if everyone start putting together sketches and/or photoshops for concept designs for this idea and MistaDee submit it to Disney as a proposal? I bet they seriously consider it at the least?

  4. #109

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    Re: Hollywoodland Armchair Imagineering E-Ticket Concept

    Quote Originally Posted by Dick O Dell View Post
    I really like this idea and think it would work great in the park. There's a lot of savvy people on this forum so what if everyone start putting together sketches and/or photoshops for concept designs for this idea and MistaDee submit it to Disney as a proposal? I bet they seriously consider it at the least?
    They can't accept any proposals or submissions, unfortunately...
    My Armchair Imagineering threads:
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    ~America Swings!~ ~Screamin's Scream Tubes~ ~Holiday Show in Hollywoodland~

    Collaborations:
    _______________________
    ~A Cinema Adventure~ ~A Cops & Gangsters Chase~
    . . . . by MistaDee . . . . . . .by Peoplemover Priit

  5. #110

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    Re: Hollywoodland Armchair Imagineering E-Ticket Concept

    Quote Originally Posted by Dick O Dell View Post
    I really like this idea and think it would work great in the park. There's a lot of savvy people on this forum so what if everyone start putting together sketches and/or photoshops for concept designs for this idea and MistaDee submit it to Disney as a proposal? I bet they seriously consider it at the least?
    Why thank you I'm quite flattered, but they legally aren't allowed to do this as someone could press charges if they used an idea submitted to them and they just don't want to deal with the hubbabub.
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  6. #111

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    Red Face Re: Hollywoodland Armchair Imagineering E-Ticket Concept

    Quote Originally Posted by MistaDee View Post
    Why thank you I'm quite flattered, but they legally aren't allowed to do this as someone could press charges if they used an idea submitted to them and they just don't want to deal with the hubbabub.
    Part of me really wishes they would let you sign a waiver giving them permission to use the idea without compensation, and then let you submit it...I think the vast majority of Armchair Imagineers here would think that seeing any of our ideas realized would be so much cooler than any monetary benefit!!

    Of course, I know that's a thoroughly unrealistic dream, and I suspect it has just as much to do with the fact that there's simply no incentive for them to wade through thousands and thousands of crazy ideas for a few good ones, as with the legal implications.
    My Armchair Imagineering threads:
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    ~America Swings!~ ~Screamin's Scream Tubes~ ~Holiday Show in Hollywoodland~

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  7. #112

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    Re: Hollywoodland Armchair Imagineering E-Ticket Concept

    Quote Originally Posted by AGD View Post
    Part of me really wishes they would let you sign a waiver giving them permission to use the idea without compensation, and then let you submit it...I think the vast majority of Armchair Imagineers here would think that seeing any of our ideas realized would be so much cooler than any monetary benefit!!

    Of course, I know that's a thoroughly unrealistic dream, and I suspect it has just as much to do with the fact that there's simply no incentive for them to wade through thousands and thousands of crazy ideas for a few good ones, as with the legal implications.
    If only..... Though I do trust in Imagineering as they do much better work than we do. Most concepts here are a mash up of ideas they've already put forward with a new theme. They are the true innovators. It's the suits thats really holding them back with corporate synergy and other nonsense *coughCARSLANDcough*
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  8. #113

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    Re: Hollywoodland Armchair Imagineering E-Ticket Concept

    Quote Originally Posted by MistaDee View Post
    If only..... Though I do trust in Imagineering as they do much better work than we do. Most concepts here are a mash up of ideas they've already put forward with a new theme. They are the true innovators. It's the suits thats really holding them back with corporate synergy and other nonsense *coughCARSLANDcough*
    Yeah, every time I see something sub-par in the parks and think, "I could totally do better than that!" I remember that it's really budget, not creativity, that's the problem. Nothing like looking at the concepts of Western River, Discovery Bay, (or all of Tokyo Disney Sea!) and realizing... "ok, I can't do that..."
    My Armchair Imagineering threads:
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    ~America Swings!~ ~Screamin's Scream Tubes~ ~Holiday Show in Hollywoodland~

    Collaborations:
    _______________________
    ~A Cinema Adventure~ ~A Cops & Gangsters Chase~
    . . . . by MistaDee . . . . . . .by Peoplemover Priit

  9. #114

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    Re: Hollywoodland Armchair Imagineering E-Ticket Concept

    Quote Originally Posted by AGD View Post
    Yeah, every time I see something sub-par in the parks and think, "I could totally do better than that!" I remember that it's really budget, not creativity, that's the problem. Nothing like looking at the concepts of Western River, Discovery Bay, (or all of Tokyo Disney Sea!) and realizing... "ok, I can't do that..."
    Exactly, I'm sure anything we think of here has been thought of before there.
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  10. #115

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    Re: Hollywoodland Armchair Imagineering E-Ticket Concept

    Here are some issues I’ve noticed with this attraction. I agree with AGD that the loading area should be in the neighborhood of 200 seats in order to sell the idea that it is an actual movie theater. Given the speed and spin that you propose, these movie theater seats will need good restraints (most likely seatbelts) and each vehicle will need walls for safety purposes. I hope you weren’t planning on selling that deception too much. In fact, when I first read this idea about a theater that breaks up into ride vehicles, the first thing I thought of was EPCOT’s (because it’s still an anagram in my thoughts) Universe of Energy. I doubt those vehicles ever tricked anyone into thinking they were in a stagnant theater, but I digress.

    You are also going to need at least one load theaters and one exit theater. If the transition through the screen scene takes 2 minutes for the final car to exit the load area and each of the 8 show scenes lasts 15 seconds, the final car is entering its first show scene at about the same time that the first car is returning to the theater from its final scene. 15 sec. x 8 = 120sec. = 2 minutes. (Not counting the Cam Era scenes that take place while the vehicles are standing still.) That theater then has to unload, get sent back to the load theater and reloaded again before its next show. What you could do is place your load and exit theaters adjacent to each other so that each can be used for load and unload and the vehicles just get sent between the two through the show building. You could easily up your capacity by going from two to four theaters that run as pairs. I also think it will look better to guests to enter a theater while the previous group is exiting. It makes it look like the people in front of you just watched a presentation for some strange camera. Walking into an empty theater just gives off the vibe of, “What happened to all those people in line ahead of us?” which is something I always loved about the Haunted Mansion.

    Making the show scenes 30 seconds instead of 15 isn’t going to help your capacity any. You’re just buying two minutes. Not nearly enough time to field another set of cars. A better option would be to have the theater pass through the screen as a whole and then break up and shoot off into individual scenes. That way you can up your capacity by not having to wait 2 minutes before your dispatch area is free.

    I’m not a fan of rides with excessive back stories. I think that trying to force a detailed narrative on a primarily visceral experience only convolutes your story. This particular story is convoluted enough already. To me the S.E.A tie in feels forced. I know about early Hollywood exoticism, but very few, if any of those films were actually shot on location. If you want Cam to be some wacky documentarian, I don’t see the connection to Hollywood cinema. If Cam just bought the theater and camera as a novelty, this layer of the story is completely expendable. If you trim the setup to just being a new film process or coloring technique (of which there were many at the Magnafilm, Vitascope, Kodachrome, Technicolor etc.) the show hardly needs any setup at all. Especially if the posters in the lobby say things like, “Totascope: It’s like you’re really there!” and “Visit worlds that until now you could only imagine!” You could even pass the whole show off as how the process is intended to work and avoid the, “and everything goes wrong” cliché of just about every ride made since Star Tours. That may not work out though, since you intend the ride to be very erratic by nature.

    You also have to think about how detailed you need and want your show scenes to be. Your guests will have 15-30 seconds in each scene. In that time, they have to figure out where they are and what is going on. Going from a train heist in the old west, to a larger chorus dance number, to a Roman chariot race will be very jarring and your audience can get lost very easily. As an experiment, give someone else your TV remote and tell them to change to a different movie channel every 15 seconds. How long does it take you to get lost? Now compound that with the idea that instead of looking at a screen, your guests will be completely surrounded by sets and characters. You intend to have a lot going on in each scene and it will take riders time to process what they are seeing, especially if your sets go into great detail. Randomizing the show scenes is not the way to go with this. That route will just confuse guests and they will get off your ride not knowing what they just saw or how they are supposed to feel about it. If you stick with the Cameron Era character, he can help out by borrowing a page from the Adventures Thru Inner Space handbook and provide narration while he watches you through the viewfinder, but even then I worry about all the mixed signals being sent out over such a short period of time. I don’t see any unifying theme other than non-stop action. This ride is supposed to be a trip through golden era movie genres, yet it doesn’t take the time to put any of them into any sort of context.
    It bothers me when people selectively edit quotes to support whatever point they are trying to prove.

  11. #116

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    Re: Hollywoodland Armchair Imagineering E-Ticket Concept

    Hi Dan,

    Thanks for your thoughtful comments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Dan View Post
    Given the speed and spin that you propose, these movie theater seats will need good restraints (most likely seatbelts)
    Yes, I was thinking that having them themed to look like those velvet ropes they use at theaters to cordon off walkways would be quite charming.

    and each vehicle will need walls for safety purposes.
    Not really walls, I'd say. Indiana Jones doesn't have walls. All you would need are fairly luxurious-looking theater seats with "armrests" that hold people in as much as necessary.

    I hope you weren’t planning on selling that deception too much.
    Really, are *any* ride vehicles that thoroughly convincing? Of course you could see breaks between the blocks of seats, but I think that suspension of disbelief is just fine. It's not like ToT looks that much like the inside of a maintenance elevator, either. It's not like Jeeps actually sit 16 people (or hang gliders, 87).

    You are also going to need at least one load theaters and one exit theater.
    Yes, we've already come to exactly the same conclusion. Diagrams are on page 5.

    Walking into an empty theater just gives off the vibe of, “What happened to all those people in line ahead of us?” which is something I always loved about the Haunted Mansion.
    Yes, and how come all those people went into the Starspeeder before us, and it's only Captain Rex's first flight?

    The story is that you've been invited to a special presentation, not something that everyone and their mother get herded into.

    Making the show scenes 30 seconds instead of 15 isn’t going to help your capacity any. You’re just buying two minutes.
    Actually, this has not been proposed anyway. The show scenes are still 30 seconds, but the cars follow each other with a 15-second spacing between them--i.e. two vehicles (or sets if they're not fully broken up) in a scene at any given time.

    Just to be picky, shortening the length of the scene doesn't improve capacity AT ALL. All that is determined is how many people are loaded per unit time. Ride length is irrelevant--hence why Pirates, at ~10 minutes, can have such a high capacity (all you need is enough cars to hold everyone on board).

    A better option would be to have the theater pass through the screen as a whole and then break up and shoot off into individual scenes.
    But, it isn't spatially possible to have the entrances of so many scenes be contiguous. Or, you'd need a gigantic connecting atrium, which might as well be the theater.

    I’m not a fan of rides with excessive back stories. I think that trying to force a detailed narrative on a primarily visceral experience only convolutes your story.
    I'll have to disagree pretty strongly here. Where would ToT be without it's backstory?! The whole point of this is that it's spooky and escapist, and it needs to have a catalyst. And, really, this isn't that much backstory--Wealthy businessman/Hollywood mogul has found this film artifact that he wants to show you, and things go wrong. That's it. And, without that, why would anything happen?

    To me the S.E.A tie in feels forced.
    I think you're a bit confused with what is explicit and implicit. No one really needs to know what S.E.A. is or how exactly Mr. Era got this movie camera in order to enjoy the attraction. All you really need is movie palace --> eclectic gentleman of Hollywood elite --> obtained little-known artifact --> demo --> chaos. The details about S.E.A. are subtly worked in where one chooses to look for them, but no massive explanation needs to be made. For instance, how many guests actually know that Tokyo DisneySEA stands for Society of Explorers and Adventurers? Next to no one, I'll bet. It's a subtle theming detail for enrichment.

    I know about early Hollywood exoticism, but very few, if any of those films were actually shot on location.
    This isn't actually close at all to what's been stated for the set-up of this attraction. The point is not that these films were made there (or anything like that). It's that Mr. Era made his money on adventures in exotic places, and now he's enjoying his fortune in Hollywood, where he happens to be "in demand" both for his money and grand new theater, but also because he's an expert in the type of places many movies wanted to portray, and he's a fascinating man-about-town.

    If you trim the setup to just being a new film process or coloring technique (of which there were many at the Magnafilm, Vitascope, Kodachrome, Technicolor etc.) the show hardly needs any setup at all.
    No mystery, no intrigue, no far-away-romanticism, no reflection of the character of Hollywoodland, no sense of danger. This does nothing to psychologically heighten the experience of the ride, nor does it offer any layers of depth in design or storytelling.

    Especially if the posters in the lobby say things like, “Totascope: It’s like you’re really there!” and “Visit worlds that until now you could only imagine!”
    1958 called. It wants its Tomorrowland concepts back.

    As an experiment, give someone else your TV remote and tell them to change to a different movie channel every 15 seconds.
    So, I actually took you up on this (as I mentioned, each scene is 30 seconds, not 15). I got youtube vids of ride throughs of 5 major attractions, and played randomly-selected 30-second clips of them (Indiana Jones, Haunted Mansion, Thunder, Pirates, and Splash Mountain, in that order--in case you're curious). Trust me, 30 seconds is PLENTY of time. You can appreciate your environment in under 5 seconds, and after that it's up to the scene to impress you with whatever it has to offer.

    You intend to have a lot going on in each scene and it will take riders time to process what they are seeing, especially if your sets go into great detail.
    Not really--the point of each scene is that they are "mood" pieces, i.e. that they are iconic to many different genres, and are all at the highest-energy point in their genre. You aren't there to be appreciating any plot, all you need to understand is what genre you're in, and that it is likely to kill you by whatever means is most convenient to it (i.e. six-shooters, blazing chariots, can-can high kicks to the head...).

    Randomizing the show scenes is not the way to go with this. That route will just confuse guests and they will get off your ride not knowing what they just saw or how they are supposed to feel about it.
    EXACTLY. You are supposed to be caterwauling through scenes in an out-of-control, cursed, mystic alternate film universe. It's SUPPOSED to be disorienting. It's a thrill ride.

    If you stick with the Cameron Era character, he can help out by borrowing a page from the Adventures Thru Inner Space handbook and provide narration while he watches you through the viewfinder,
    Oh dear heavens, no. Talk about all excitement grinding to a halt. You're not on a guided tour! It's supposed to seem dangerous, and the whole point is that he's lost control of the whole system--that's why you're there. If he knew where you were he'd have gotten you out already.

    I don’t see any unifying theme other than non-stop action.
    Yep. Death-defying adventure through a cursed universe where the great movies of the 1930s are "real" (and dangerous).

    This ride is supposed to be a trip through golden era movie genres,
    No, it isn't. This is not the Great Movie Ride. The point isn't to showcase movie-making, it's to provide a sense of danger, thrill, and wonderment through a magical treatment of Hollywood's Golden Age.

    -----

    Oh, well...I guess I agreed with you about the seatbelts (and the loading, which I already timed & diagrammed 3 weeks ago).

    But, I really do appreciate your taking the time to read & comment (and I think I can pretty safely speak for MistaDee on that as well).
    My Armchair Imagineering threads:
    ______________________________________
    ~America Swings!~ ~Screamin's Scream Tubes~ ~Holiday Show in Hollywoodland~

    Collaborations:
    _______________________
    ~A Cinema Adventure~ ~A Cops & Gangsters Chase~
    . . . . by MistaDee . . . . . . .by Peoplemover Priit

  12. #117

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    Re: Hollywoodland Armchair Imagineering E-Ticket Concept

    I'm not even gonna try to top AGD's response.

    Judging by the lack of response... someone was put in their place!
    Just kidding. I really do appreciate the criticisms but as AGD put ever so eloquently I really don't think you got the vibe of the attraction (perhaps my convoluted writing skills )
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  13. #118

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    Re: Hollywoodland Armchair Imagineering E-Ticket Concept

    Great idea you should be an imagineer.

  14. #119

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    Re: Hollywoodland Armchair Imagineering E-Ticket Concept

    Why thank you I had noticed several other idea threads got the "you should be an imagineer" praise and I had felt a little snubbed so thank you very much.
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  15. #120

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    Re: Hollywoodland Armchair Imagineering E-Ticket Concept

    So I am going to do a re incorporation ofthis into an all encompassing hollywoodland redo thread so anyone who has contributed or has ideas would like to reply with them that would be great thanks!
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