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  1. #16

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    Re: Mater's Junkyard Jamboree

    Quote Originally Posted by nonob88 View Post
    and you're basing this off what? just a gut feeling?
    1) Precedent. The entire DCA expansion has notably cut back on certain "non-essential" aspects that were elements of early design concepts. Notable examples include: Wrap-around queue/boardwalk for the Fun Wheel. New roof/canopy structure for King Triton's Carousel. Re-theme of Condor Flats. Carsland Drive-In Restaurant. Screamin' queue makeover. A "Walt Disney Story" attraction for the Carthay Circle Theater. These cut backs from initial ideas/plans were quite clearly to save/divert money so that the "important" attractions (RSR, WoC, and Mermaid) could receive proper funding. Mess those up and nobody will care a lick that Mater's Junkyard Jamboree uses a new fangled ride system.

    2) The utter lack of information regarding the attraction. As I outlined above with regard to the D23 expo, virtually every other aspect of Carsland was addressed, often times in great detail. They told us where the Fastpass machines for RSR would be located. They told us Flo's would be a counter service restaurant. They told us Luigi's would be a flying saucer "reboot." They told us Fillmore's would serve juice. They told us Sarge's and Lizzy's would be retail space. They even went so far as to tell us the names of the food that would be served at the Cozy Cone: Chile Cone Carne, etc. Pretty much the only thing they glossed over was Mater's attraction, for the potentially rather obvious reason that they would't have much to hype about a newer/better version of an off-the-shelf technology, a smaller scale version of which already exists about 50 feet away at Francis' Ladybug Boogie. With all that in mind, I find it hard to believe that they'd just accidentally omit talking about an attraction that would supposedly use a never-before-seen ride technology with never-before-used ride vehicles without at least saying something about it.

    3) The quite obvious Figure 8 attraction pictured in the newly released photo from WDW's Fantasyland expansion. It would be a re-themed clone, and purchasing two of an identical attraction vs. building, from scratch, a never before built, one of a kind attraction would save Disney literally tens of millions of dollars.

    4) And finally, I've seen a rather convincing layout of Mater's depicted as a large figure 8/16 style attraction. While I hate saying "I can't tell you where I've seen it," in fact, I can't tell you where I've seen it. It wasn't recent (it was pre 2009), but it absolutely depicted the attraction with the exact layout seen in the Tinkerbell/Fairy attraction pictured in my earlier post.

    Sure, their plans may have changed at some point to go with a more elaborate and unique attraction, but at every step of the DCA Phase I makeover, we have yet to see anything plussed, and we have several examples of what I believe is an incredibly smart decision by Disney to put funding into the areas that are most desperate for it (with the slightly unfortunate side effect that some really cool preliminary "blue sky" ideas had to be either put on hold or cut completely). This will allow RSR to be the best E-ticket at the entire DLR, as well as maxing out WoC, and giving us perhaps the DLR's best non-E-ticket dark ride in Ariel's Adventure.
    Last edited by simba; 01-20-2010 at 10:52 PM.

  2. #17

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    Re: Mater's Junkyard Jamboree

    Quote Originally Posted by simba View Post
    1) 3) The quite obvious Figure 8 attraction pictured in the newly released photo from WDW's Fantasyland expansion. It would be a re-themed clone, and purchasing two of an identical attraction vs. building, from scratch, a never before built, one of a kind attraction would save Disney literally tens of millions of dollars.
    Actually, if the ride system IS purchased from a ride system manufacturer, I think the savings would only be in the millions (single digit). Most basic ride systems are relatively cheap. That's why amusement parks are able to change out major coasters every few years. It's the Disney theming that eventually pushes up their attraction costs.

  3. #18

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    Re: Mater's Junkyard Jamboree

    Quote Originally Posted by bfdf55 View Post
    Actually, if the ride system IS purchased from a ride system manufacturer, I think the savings would only be in the millions (single digit). Most basic ride systems are relatively cheap. That's why amusement parks are able to change out major coasters every few years. It's the Disney theming that eventually pushes up their attraction costs.
    But the Mater's attraction wouldn't be heavily themed, and a brand new technology that would be involved in creating a unique attraction with a unique vehicle+track could easily run up the cost when it comes to the vehicle design, track design, track construction, track vehicle construction, ride programming, software/hardware design and testing, debugging, etc. The amount of labor goes up exponentially when you need to design and build a new attraction from the ground up vs. just dropping in a pre-built design and then themeing it. It's not just labor to build this unique track and vehicle system, but also labor hours with regard to design, testing, and manufacturing branches that has to factor in as well.

    Using brand new ride propulsion and vehicle designs can be very expensive. I'd venture to say that aside from software design costs, the biggest expense on TSMM was the vehicle design, construction, and testing. The projectors, computers, and screens used are basically off the shelf items that would still only costs in the thousands when added up.

  4. #19

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    Re: Mater's Junkyard Jamboree

    Quote Originally Posted by simba View Post
    But the Mater's attraction wouldn't be heavily themed, and a brand new technology that would be involved in creating a unique attraction with a unique vehicle+track could easily run up the cost when it comes to the vehicle design, track design, track construction, track vehicle construction, ride programming, software/hardware design and testing, debugging, etc. The amount of labor goes up exponentially when you need to design and build a new attraction from the ground up vs. just dropping in a pre-built design and then themeing it. It's not just labor to build this unique track and vehicle system, but also labor hours with regard to design, testing, and manufacturing branches that has to factor in as well.

    Using brand new ride propulsion and vehicle designs can be very expensive. I'd venture to say that aside from software design costs, the biggest expense on TSMM was the vehicle design, construction, and testing. The projectors, computers, and screens used are basically off the shelf items that would still only costs in the thousands when added up.
    I don't know the name of the company but they already have the concept that could be used instead of the figure 8/16. Take a look at this pic here.


  5. #20

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    Re: Mater's Junkyard Jamboree

    Quote Originally Posted by Truecoat View Post
    I don't know the name of the company but they already have the concept that could be used instead of the figure 8/16. Take a look at this pic here.

    Hmm....if that's close to what Mater's Junkyard Jamboree's gonna be like, then this is gonna be cool!

  6. #21

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    Re: Mater's Junkyard Jamboree

    Quote Originally Posted by Truecoat View Post
    I don't know the name of the company but they already have the concept that could be used instead of the figure 8/16. Take a look at this pic here.
    Concepts and rough computer mock ups are great, but that's a far cry from a working, tested, programmed, and ready-to-run ride system like the figure8/16.

    I'm not saying that there's "no way" it will be some sort of tracked whip system like that one pictured, but in light of the evidence I have (as presented in my post #16), it just seems a lot more likely it will be a fig 8x2 as opposed to a track based whip.

  7. #22

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    Re: Mater's Junkyard Jamboree

    Quote Originally Posted by simba View Post
    Concepts and rough computer mock ups are great, but that's a far cry from a working, tested, programmed, and ready-to-run ride system like the figure8/16.

    I'm not saying that there's "no way" it will be some sort of tracked whip system like that one pictured, but in light of the evidence I have (as presented in my post #16), it just seems a lot more likely it will be a fig 8x2 as opposed to a track based whip.
    The drawings that have been observed indicate the 8x2 system will be used. I don't know if the tracked whip system was considered and rejected or just never considered from the start.

  8. #23

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    Re: Mater's Junkyard Jamboree

    Quote Originally Posted by bfdf55 View Post
    The drawings that have been observed indicate the 8x2 system will be used. I don't know if the tracked whip system was considered and rejected or just never considered from the start.
    That's what I've seen as well, however I do know that the drawing(s) I saw were not terribly recent, so I am willing to accept that things may have changed since then. However, the odds of something like a "smaller" attraction like that getting upgraded during the design process over the last year or two seems unlikely to me.

    As I've pointed out earlier in this thread, there are numerous examples of secondary attractions and makeover elements being removed or cut back from what we saw in preliminary models, concept art, and proposals. That's quite typical of that stage of the design process where they shoot for the moon and then end up with the best they can afford. Luckily a good amount of funding was approved for the project, but not enough for them to complete all that we saw in some of the early DCA makeover concept art, some of which I detailed in post #16. They've wisely made sure that the important and major attractions (specifically WoC, Mermaid, and RSR) are getting the funding that is necessary to make their vision for those attractions a reality.

    With all that in mind, I still keep coming back to the fact that they did absolutely zero promotion of Mater's attraction at the D23 Expo, despite many in depth details about several other elements of Carsland. They pretty much gave info on everything but Mater's Junkyard Jamboree. This is why I'm skeptical that a new/innovative tracked whip system would be implemented. If they were going to do that, you could probably bet it would be one of their "bullet points" at some point amongst all the Carsland promotion they've been doing over the past year.

    If anyone has seen any sort of illustration from mid/late 2009 of Mater's that shows a tracked system, I'll gladly change my stance.

  9. #24

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    Re: Mater's Junkyard Jamboree

    I hope it's more than just an "off the shelf" ride.

  10. #25

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    Re: Mater's Junkyard Jamboree

    an imagineer at expo who is working on carsland told me it will be like francis, except towing-or drifting-or whatever the term is- and on a figure 12 track

  11. #26

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    Re: Mater's Junkyard Jamboree

    Quote Originally Posted by Ckelef1 View Post
    an imagineer at expo who is working on carsland told me it will be like francis, except towing-or drifting-or whatever the term is- and on a figure 12 track
    I think that the term should be 'crack the whip' more so than drifting. There are very few rides that do something like this any more. The closest feeling that this would be like is a classic tilt-a-whirl. There will be lots of sharp turns which will send the car swinging out forcing the riders back in their seats.

  12. #27

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    Re: Mater's Junkyard Jamboree

    I personally think Mater's JJ will be a modified (larger) version of the Francis Ladybug Boogie (and the Cars attraction at DLP) of course themed to Mater's Junkyard. You can very easily see how the vehicles could be slightly modified to create more of a "whip" feeling. In those existing figure 8's, the vehicles spin on a central axis. In the new Mater attraction, the vehicles would spin about a point that's outside the main seating section of each vehicle, more like the vehicles on a tilt-a-whirl. The basic idea of the attraction would still be the same, but each vehicle would need a slightly larger radius of clearance. I don't think there's any evidence that suggests the attraction will be anything other than this.

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  13. #28

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    Re: Mater's Junkyard Jamboree

    i really hope its like the la times article and the new ride sestem because it looks like it would be a very good ride

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