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  1. #136

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    Re: Hate Carsland - Alternative Ideas: Death Valley, Toontown or Expanded Hollywoodla

    Quote Originally Posted by ktjacob View Post
    Hey all! See, what you're missing...is that Disney has realized that the "California" theme has not been doing so well, while the PIXAR industry is FLYING up the charts. SOOooo....if you look at all the new improvements to DCA, you will notice that they are trying to get "out" of the "all-CA" theme...and trying to get a more "Pixar" theme going thru that land.

    Hence, the new Toy Story ride....the Pixar parade...Cars Land...etc. I have yet to see a California parade Actually...I don't think I'd be too interested to see that, lol!

    Yes, I know it's still called DCA, however, in my opinion...it's just a matter of time before they start calling it Pixar-land..lol!
    Not true. Buena Vista Street will be Los Angeles in the 1920s, Hollywood Land is well, Hollywood. Paradise Pier is still a seaside boardwalk on the coast of California. Cars Land is Route 66. If anything, they are strengthening the California theme. If they had plans to change the name or the theme, they would have done so already.

    And they actually had a California-themed parade at one point, it was called Eureka.. and it was actually a really good parade. As for the "Toy Story Ride" - it's themed to midway games in Paradise Pier, so it fits.
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  2. #137

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    Re: Hate Carsland - Alternative Ideas: Death Valley, Toontown or Expanded Hollywoodla

    Ah this thread pops back onto my Control Pannel and so back to our dance, Uncle Bob. This time, I lead...

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    Fine, if it makes you feel better, it fits well enough that leaving it out would be stupid.
    Oddly, I don't particularly feel any better at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    Making it a generic desert town and not Radiator Springs when you have a multi-billion dollar franchise would be stupid. Not showcasing your extremely popular characters would be stupid. Disney is a business and not milking Cars for all it's worth, would be stupid.
    Not making it the race track in California that appears in the movie IS stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    The town portrays a typical Route 66 locale, which absolutely portrays an aspect of the California experience and that's good enough.
    Um, no. It's not good enough. Driving here and sleeping over night at the Drifters Lodge in Doodlebug, Arizona is not part of the California experience. It'd be great if Disney ever opens "Disney's Arizona Experience." I know you think we're being to slavish to geography...but when you base a park on a geographical location, what else do you expect?

    If they opened a "Disney's United States Adventure," would you expect lands from Europe and Asia? Why not? ...people came here from there. It was part of their United States experience, right? Good enough? (No)

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    If it didn't why did WDI put a Route 66 section in the original park? I don't buy that that simple of connection puts that logic on a slippery slope to allow anything to go. It's not some crazy leap in logic you try to make it sound like.
    Why do you think Route 66 as a concept is what's at issue here? Route 66 is IN California (320 miles of it is anyway). At no point have I said there shouldn't be Route 66 in DCA, what I DID say was:

    Quote Originally Posted by timbabbcomedian View Post
    A land carved to resemble the topographical features of a Arizona and Texas, based on a movie which itself inspired by the experiences of a man in Seligman, Arizona is not a "perfect fit."
    Tim FTW

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    It's a theme park, it only has to feel right and have a feeling of believablity to let us enter the chosen environment and have fun.
    True...

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    This land will do that perfectly.
    False!

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    You can nit pick anything to death for thematic cohesion, but I just don't see a point to it. DL will fail that test over and over and it's still one of the best theme parks in the world.
    Not really. "Fantasy" "Frontier" "Tomorrow" and "Adventure" are nebulous concepts with meanings that can be stretched in all sorts of different directions. California is a physical place. I'm standing on it right now. I can't go visit Tomorrow (everytime I try, I end up in Today)

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    The reality is that if Disney didn't include Cars in the new DCA in a big way it would have been complete managerial inneptitude.
    On this point we can agree. While I don't like Cars personally, it's a gold mine for Disney and it should be exploited in the parks....no question. And with California's noted car culture, it IS a perfect fit in that sense.

    What is frustrating is that it would have been SO EASY to do it right and they did it wrong instead.

    It would be similar if Disney had decided that they should ad characters from Pirates (the movie) into Pirates (the ride). But instead of Jack Sparrow, they added 3 figures of Elizabeth Swan's dad.

    Quote Originally Posted by ktjacob View Post
    Hey all! See, what you're missing...is that Disney has realized that the "California" theme has not been doing so well, while the PIXAR industry is FLYING up the charts.
    Actually what Disney is missing is that their EXECUTION of the "California" theme is lacking...not the concept itself.

  3. #138

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    Re: Hate Carsland - Alternative Ideas: Death Valley, Toontown or Expanded Hollywoodla

    I commend elitepetite for giving armchair imagineering a go even though alot of you dont agree with the ideas dosnt mean that you have to abuse them!

    Like I have said in a previous thread a Beauty and the Beast Dark ride is an absoloute must in my book! Also toontown being based in DCA dosnt sound too bad but I think I'd still like it in MK but with a major redo and additions.

    In terms of themeing in DCA sure its a bit of a mess I have a suggestion RENAME THE PARK!!!!!!! Disney's Grand American Adventures anyone?

  4. #139

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    Re: Hate Carsland - Alternative Ideas: Death Valley, Toontown or Expanded Hollywoodla

    I think all of you have too much time on your hands to worry so much and get all upset about a park! Boo F'n Hoo, the park is this, the park is that....

    The original poster just said the DCA stinks out loud and it does. End of story!

  5. #140

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    Re: Hate Carsland - Alternative Ideas: Death Valley, Toontown or Expanded Hollywoodla

    I currently live on Route 66 in the Inland Empire, in California. There isn't a night and day difference between Route 66 in the California desert and Route 66 in the Arizona desert. The theme of a desert road side town and automobiles is very, very Californian.

    Funny how we'll bash a theme for a new attraction based on something so arbitrary as state lines, but we have no problem with a classic attraction like Pirates of the Caribbean, set in a Spanish Caribbean island colony but located in New Orleans Square.

  6. #141

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    Re: Hate Carsland - Alternative Ideas: Death Valley, Toontown or Expanded Hollywoodla

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Cutlass View Post
    Funny how we'll bash a theme for a new attraction based on something so arbitrary as state lines, but we have no problem with a classic attraction like Pirates of the Caribbean, set in a Spanish Caribbean island colony but located in New Orleans Square.
    I'd be curious to see where you got your data. Are you really sure that everyone who has a problem with the idea of a non-Californian locale taking up a large chunk of a California-based park also has no problem with Pirates' placement? Personally, I see similar issues with both, and yet I love both in and of themselves, so I'm already an exception to your rule...


  7. #142

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    Re: Hate Carsland - Alternative Ideas: Death Valley, Toontown or Expanded Hollywoodla

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Cutlass View Post
    I currently live on Route 66 in the Inland Empire, in California. There isn't a night and day difference between Route 66 in the California desert and Route 66 in the Arizona desert. The theme of a desert road side town and automobiles is very, very Californian.
    Radiator Springs/Carsland has very specific geologic features and references to real buildings and places along Route 66. Most of this, however, does not exist in California, or represent it in any way without reverting to vague similarities. This essentially goes against the thematic mission statement of DCA.

    Again, why not build a unique Californian environment rather than build a town from a film that strongly suggests it isn't even located in the state of California?

    Funny how we'll bash a theme for a new attraction based on something so arbitrary as state lines, but we have no problem with a classic attraction like Pirates of the Caribbean, set in a Spanish Caribbean island colony but located in New Orleans Square.
    Again, POTC is completely self-contained, and does quite a bit in the way it transitions between scenes to transport you to another place and time. Carsland is just there, out in the open, with very tenuous connections to the overall theme of the park. I'm walking in a Californian boardwalk and suddenly I'm in the middle of Arizona.

  8. #143

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    Re: Hate Carsland - Alternative Ideas: Death Valley, Toontown or Expanded Hollywoodla

    I think CarsLand is better fitting.

    Just change the name to Route 66.

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  9. #144

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    Re: Hate Carsland - Alternative Ideas: Death Valley, Toontown or Expanded Hollywoodla

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Cutlass View Post
    I currently live on Route 66 in the Inland Empire, in California. There isn't a night and day difference between Route 66 in the California desert and Route 66 in the Arizona desert. The theme of a desert road side town and automobiles is very, very Californian.
    Quoted for truth. From someone who lives there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matterhorn Boy View Post
    Radiator Springs/Carsland has very specific geologic features and references to real buildings and places along Route 66.
    Radiator Springs/Cars has very specific geologic features to Southern Utah (Mexican Hat), not on Route 66, and Northern New Mexico (Camel Rock), not on Route 66.

    So maybe what the makers of Cars (the movie) were going for was southwestern high desert and not the specific town of Peach Springs, AZ. In that case, California fits just as well as Arizona, New Mexico or western Texas.

  10. #145

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    Re: Hate Carsland - Alternative Ideas: Death Valley, Toontown or Expanded Hollywoodla

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojave View Post
    Radiator Springs/Cars has very specific geologic features to Southern Utah (Mexican Hat), not on Route 66, and Northern New Mexico (Camel Rock), not on Route 66.

    So maybe what the makers of Cars (the movie) were going for was southwestern high desert and not the specific town of Peach Springs, AZ. In that case, California fits just as well as Arizona, New Mexico or western Texas.
    Which again, does not work if the entire point of the park is to represent specific locales found in California. If the intended goal of the park was to represent the entire southwestern United States, a region encompassing several states, that must have been lost on the people who came up with the name of the park.

    Also, the amount of real-world locales found in California that are used in Radiator Springs/Carsland are seriously lacking for you to make the claim that California fits "just as well" as the other states you mentioned. Here's a link to a site (That I've posted before) that illustrates how few real-world elements Radiator Springs uses from the state of California.

    A Route 66 guide to the “Cars” movie Route 66 News

    If creating a homage to the parts of Route 66 located in California was their intention, then they failed miserably.

  11. #146

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    Re: Hate Carsland - Alternative Ideas: Death Valley, Toontown or Expanded Hollywoodla

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojave View Post
    Radiator Springs/Cars has very specific geologic features to Southern Utah (Mexican Hat), not on Route 66, and Northern New Mexico (Camel Rock), not on Route 66.
    Also not in California. Which is, I believe, the point.

  12. #147

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    Re: Hate Carsland - Alternative Ideas: Death Valley, Toontown or Expanded Hollywoodla

    Quote Originally Posted by Matterhorn Boy View Post
    Which again, does not work if the entire point of the park is to represent specific locales found in California. If the intended goal of the park was to represent the entire southwestern United States, a region encompassing several states, that must have been lost on the people who came up with the name of the park
    Quote Originally Posted by timbabbcomedian View Post
    Also not in California. Which is, I believe, the point.
    You missed my point, which is one of inclusion not exclusion.

  13. #148

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    Re: Hate Carsland - Alternative Ideas: Death Valley, Toontown or Expanded Hollywoodla

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojave View Post
    So maybe what the makers of Cars (the movie) were going for was southwestern high desert and not the specific town of Peach Springs, AZ. In that case, California fits just as well as Arizona, New Mexico or western Texas.
    Right - that's exactly the problem. California is just one of many influences in Radiator Springs. There's nothing about it that specifically and intentionally glorifies California. It's about an idea that has ties to California, just like it has ties to numerous other places.

    I could have missed it, but I don't think anyone's suggesting that from a purely visual/stylistic standpoint, Radiator Springs looks totally incongruous with California. It's simply the knowledge that it's not from California that's rather irksome. At the end of the day, we don't know where Radiator Springs is supposed to be. It's intentionally vague. All we know is that in the context of the film, it's supposed to be apart from California, in the most literal and figurative senses.


  14. #149

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    Re: Hate Carsland - Alternative Ideas: Death Valley, Toontown or Expanded Hollywoodla

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister View Post
    Right - that's exactly the problem. California is just one of many influences in Radiator Springs. There's nothing about it that specifically and intentionally glorifies California. It's about an idea that has ties to California, just like it has ties to numerous other places.

    I could have missed it, but I don't think anyone's suggesting that from a purely visual/stylistic standpoint, Radiator Springs looks totally incongruous with California. It's simply the knowledge that it's not from California that's rather irksome. At the end of the day, we don't know where Radiator Springs is supposed to be. It's intentionally vague. All we know is that in the context of the film, it's supposed to be apart from California, in the most literal and figurative senses.
    I think it's just a difference of philosophy or viewpoint.

    I think Radiator Springs fits California because I include it in a larger generic group of themes and concepts - dramatic desert scenery, Route 66, small town by-passed by major highway, etc.

    Whereas you (and others) appear to exclude California because it is not part of a list of specifics - Peach Springs, Monument Valley-like scenery, a Grand Canyon waterfall, a Missouri motel, the "real" Sally, the "real" Doc, etc.

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    Re: Hate Carsland - Alternative Ideas: Death Valley, Toontown or Expanded Hollywoodla

    It's certainly a philosophical difference - I can understand where you and others (including Disney) are coming from, but it's just not a viewpoint that quite works for me. Again, it's not about totally ripping the California theme to shreds. It's just that the knowledge that Radiator Springs is supposed to be somewhere outside California nags at me.

    The way I see it, the ONLY reason to have a theme for a given park/land/attraction/whatever is to help communicate feelings more clearly and consistently. The way you do that is by ensuring that every element clarifies and actively reinforces the theme, making it all the more clear exactly where the guest is supposed to be. I don't think the idea of Cars Land does that for the California theme at all - it's more like there's just an indirect connection that can be used to kind of justify it. And that defeats the whole purpose of having a theme, IMO.

    But again, I'm looking forward to Cars Land as a self-contained pocket of amazingness. It's just the context that makes me raise an eyebrow.


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