Was DCA ever needed? what could it end up costing the D Co.

[BFG3dfx]

This is not a thread about do you like or dislike DCA, its about was it ever needed in the first place. I admit that ppl have put hard wprk into it and that it has some great attractions and that the D Co. has spent a ton of money on it. That outta the way lets look at this idea verus a upgraded DL.

Michael Eisner had many schemes on how to make quick money for the D Co. almost every single one did start to pay the debt of its creation at first but in the end started bleeding from the nose. He was very good at taking someone else work and trying to make money off it, his best was selling of animated classic's on vhs/dvd, but almost everything else he touched was a wreck. He saw a stagnet park and not being a DisneyLand fan saw Dollars in changing it into a WDW Ca. version instead of the possiblities brought to him by WDI Jim Hill : The Disneyland expansion plan that never happened (one set of many great idea's)
He felt the way to go was more gates even though after the opening of the indy ride the park had its highest attendance of 15 million and that was with more than half of TomorrowLand closed.
So the idea of making a vaction spot out of the DL area by having more hotel rooms and a board walk with a new park, was his goal. Did anyone ever think even for a minute that by adding onto this park(plenty of room in many of the lands and the WDI expansion on Main Street) that this park could have met these goals without another park and could have saved a ton of money while bringing in a ton more profit?

Lets look at the cold hard facts of DCA being built as compared to DL bing upgraded.

DL proved by attendance(15 million 1996, which is more than its brought in since dca was built) that building of newer "E" attractions did and would bring in more guests even with parts of the park closed and in disrepear, WDI already had plans on how to handle more traffic in the park, with more upgraded lands and new area's built DL could easy have handled and brought in 16 million or more guests. With special shows playing on different nights instead of everything in one night( for instance, Fantasmic one night and Electrical Parade, Fireworks the next night) plus added attractions and increased lands it would have taken 2 or 3 days to see everything, hence making it a multi day park.

DCA has shown to date that by attendance levels that it can't bring park attendance even up to the levels of 1996 even with the 1 million ap holders. Sure ppl will go into this park since there going for free(Ap) but the park has shown to those that pay for a ticket its no draw, they may buy a parkhopper ticket but their not coming for this park.


AP, does it fix not upgrading DL and building DCA? During the holidays, day before thanksgiving, it was reprted that 64,000 had shown up. Of that huge number, nearly 40,000 were Ap holders. So i'm sure at least 2/3 of those AP's went to DCA but yet that doesn't really matter does it? The DLR is showing increase in attendance while having a decrease in revenue, so what that says is, the AP is causing overcrowding of the park and parking problems while decreasing revenue and making for worse expeience for day ticket buyers.

There was a chance to really do something that was already on the plate and was already proven to be what DL fans wanted but it was shoved aside for what was thought to be a big revenue maker for the Co. instead every gimic they can think of has been employed and not one has worked the magic they had hoped for, sometimes staying on the path isn't just the easiest thing its the best thing.

Harry Potter, The series has sold more than 325 million copies worldwide since 1997 Harry Potter U.S. Sales Set Record, Scholastic Says (Update4) - Bloomberg.com 30 highest grossing films from this decade. Only Two of the Top 30 Grossing Films of This Decade Are Original | /Film 5 in the top 12 are HP. Museum attendance ttp://jimhillmedia.com/blogs/jim_hill/archive/2010/01/11/huge-crowds-for-harry-potter-the-exhibition-offers-clues-as-to-how-universal-orlando-s-wizarding-world-will-be-received.aspx
Why bring up HP? Well first off i hope you understand that if this new HP land is any good at all then WDW is gonna be in a big huge hurt, but hey ive never been to WDW because EPCOT is as much of a draw to me as DCA is. The real deal here is if HP comes to California what it will do to a stagnat DL and underachiving DCA. DCA seems to be happy to try and get 5 or 10 thousand $25.00 admissions a day for a whole park where ar the HP Museum show which gets higher attendance at $26.00 a visit . . . and my point here is if HP ends up being huge in Florida then why wouldn't it come to California? remeber who wanted to buy out Disney? It was Comcast the now owner of Universal Studios, I can just bet that Comcast won't be pulling any punches on putting a hurt to Disney any way it can.

So look at the future here in California, failed to keep on track with DL, failed with new gate(DCA), failed attempt at revenue buy selling cheap AP passes, new owner of Universal Studios and Harry Potter that could be a giant killer for theme parks and if thats the case why would it not come here to Ca.

I do believe that the shareholders would axe the parks if they lost too much money(its a business with shreholders, come on they almost sold out to Comcast before) and keep movies and Disney Stores to sell their merchandise which is where their real profits come from.

Disney has for some time been the leader in one area which is buying up businesses more clevor than themselves and maketing their products and there is one Co. they better buy up before Comcast does because it could be the Co. to save their parks and be a Harry Potter killer . . . Summit Entertainment. I say buy them now, and yes take out the few good attractions from DCA and put them into DL and do all the DL improvements WDI suggested over the years, now bulldoze the rest of DCA , build an entire TWILIGHT park and have it done by 2012. That would make for a vaction like no other for ppl of all ages, you would need more hotel then of course.

[DisneyIPresume]

I think one of the biggest mistakes Disney ever did was build a second park in California. They thought that they could make the DLR into another WDW and that never quite materialized. I also think that they should never build a third gate but that is certainly debatable.

It isn't because DCA is a lousy park. It's just that second and third gates don't work on the west coast in the way that Disney thought they would.

[k_peek_2000]

It isn't because DCA is a lousy park. It's just that second and third gates don't work on the west coast in the way that Disney thought they would.

If that were true, DCA would still be getting lousy attendance. Over time as they opened new attractions that generally brought in more guests. The reason it was never popular was because it wasn't geared towards families. With the acception of just 2 attractions, Limo, and Soarin'. It tried to be a heavily themed Six Flags. That's why every attraction they have added with the acception of TOT has been a Family attraction (MI, TSMM, TTWC and the future Mermaid and Carsland as well as the Mickification of the rest of the park).

[BFG3dfx]

I think one of the biggest mistakes Disney ever did was build a second park in California. They thought that they could make the DLR into another WDW and that never quite materialized. I also think that they should never build a third gate but that is certainly debatable.

It isn't because DCA is a lousy park. It's just that second and third gates don't work on the west coast in the way that Disney thought they would.

DisneyIPresume look at this list of top parks of 2008
TEA Releases theme park attendance figures for 2008 | The DIS Unplugged Disney Blog
Two things not in the top 10 DCA or Universal Studios Florida, cant wait to see 2010's top ten, that will tell alot.

I do think DCA has some great things in it but not enough for me to pay $25.00 to go see. I know Ap holder rave about the park but after their 10th , 20th, or even 50th visit to DLR what are they paying really to go see it a few bucks? you just can't spend Billions on a business with no hope of ever getting that money back and call it a success, i'd love to know what it cost to run that park every day, i would guess it opens late and closes early for a reason.

[BFG3dfx]

If that were true, DCA would still be getting lousy attendance. Over time as they opened new attractions that generally brought in more guests. The reason it was never popular was because it wasn't geared towards families. With the acception of just 2 attractions, Limo, and Soarin'. It tried to be a heavily themed Six Flags. That's why every attraction they have added with the acception of TOT has been a Family attraction (MI, TSMM, TTWC and the future Mermaid and Carsland as well as the Mickification of the rest of the park).

k_peek_2000, both parks have had more attendance due to AP passes which bring no real revenue to the parks which is why Attendance is up while revenue is down. I do think as they add more rides more ppl will buy more parkhopper tickets but thats not near enough to ever 1) pay off the debt. off the park 2) bring in all the extra multi day ppl they are trying so hard to get.

[MatterhornJ]

Was it needed? No.
Did it match to the concept art? No.
Do I enjoy the park? YES.

[BFG3dfx]

If you were a business owner and you did something that made your Co.(indy, 1995 - 14.1 million attendance, 1996 - 15 million attendance) more profit would you do it again? If you tried something that worked at another location but lost you money at this location what would you do? (going on 2 Billion just for the building of dca let alone the big parking structure and what it has cost to run the park and loss of attendance since it was built instead of increase now offset buy giving away the park)

UPDATE: Disney park attendance increases - Around Disney : The Orange County Register

All i can think is someone is a hell of a story teller to the shareholders roflol.

[Ice101]

The biggest problem with DCA is that it was designed not as a permenant 2nd gate. Clearly, Disney planned for a 3rd gate which means that they didn't use all space, all creativity, all theming capabilities for the park. Disney could have done an amazing job if they planned the Resort to be a 2 park resort, just like it should be. DCA will never be a fully self sustainable park at this rate unless Disney starts pumping even more cash to get everything done fast. So thank you Micheal Eisner for realizing it is better to make something on the cheap, then to save it for later and do it right.

[Peoplemover Priit]

The problem with Anaheim and Disneyland is that the city was built around the park, not the other way around. So when Disney executives wanted to get more profit of Disneyland, they thought the best way to was by building a cheap park for quick money. That is why they are in a bit of a whole in trying to make Disneyland a multiple day stop for tourists.

[Awesome]

Technically nothing is ever needed.
New attractions aren't "needed" but I do feel like, while DCA seems to be a "failure" to most people, it is important to DLR.
Why? With just Disneyland, we wouldn't be able to get a wide variety of new rides or expansion ideas.
With a brand new park, Disney has nothing to risk by expanding or trying new rides/ideas, they don't risk ruining a classic park with a HUGE fan-base.
If they didn't build DCA and instead tried some of the crap in DL that they did or are planning on doing in DCA... hundreds of thousands of people would be pissed.

In my opinion, not all of DCA is a complete failure. They have some great rides/attractions like Soarin', TSMM, Screamin', GRR, HToT, and the Animation building... But not ONE of those things would work or even be acceptable in Disneyland.
So personally, I feel like a second park that isn't "Disneyland: Happiest Place on Earth where all your childhood memories are" is needed.

[BFG3dfx]

Technically nothing is ever needed.
New attractions aren't "needed" but I do feel like, while DCA seems to be a "failure" to most people, it is important to DLR.
Why? With just Disneyland, we wouldn't be able to get a wide variety of new rides or expansion ideas.
With a brand new park, Disney has nothing to risk by expanding or trying new rides/ideas, they don't risk ruining a classic park with a HUGE fan-base.
If they didn't build DCA and instead tried some of the crap in DL that they did or are planning on doing in DCA... hundreds of thousands of people would be pissed.

In my opinion, not all of DCA is a complete failure. They have some great rides/attractions like Soarin', TSMM, Screamin', GRR, HToT, and the Animation building... But not ONE of those things would work or even be acceptable in Disneyland.
So personally, I feel like a second park that isn't "Disneyland: Happiest Place on Earth where all your childhood memories are" is needed.

Awesome, good post.

agree there are some good attractions over there, i however don't agree on them not fitting in DL.

Soaring is i think the best attraction in that park and i'd rather have that in TL than Nemo or Buzz or EO.

HToT and the Animation building could be in a new land about hollywood which could have had an entrance right behind the hot dog truck on the end of main street and that land could have came out next to the hat shop at the other end of main street(main street would have looked the same but with a back street open to more shops) and open to traffic during parades.

GRR could be in the land that was Bear Country , splash is sedate but a nice little family ride GRR would be for those who want alittle more and they could bring back the Bear Country Jam plus DCA's gift shop for GRR. put GRR at the end bring BCJ and GGR gift shop up by resturant.

Bring all that Toon stuff over into a new expanded FantasyLand.

Screamin doesn't seem to fit anywhere which is fine because my 74 year old mom thought it was ok, just. Sry no theme of intrest and ive been to six flags too many times.

These are just idea's but between the room behind both main streets which wouldn't need the face of main street to change and room around the river, room in critter country(all that can be torn out) room in TL and i'm sure some other places things could have been done. I still don't see the need for DCA, it doesn't fill the need they said it was built for.

Oh well i'll be dead soon and i won't have any memories of this lol.

[Talisker]

I don't live in the area and have to travel. I used to go to Disneyland for a day when I was visiting relatives in the area. I'd also go to Knott's for a day and maybe Universal. Now, I book a hotel stay and stay for at least three days. During those three days I eat in the parks, I spend a little time in Downtown Disney, and since I'm flying in and don't have a car I rarely if ever go anywhere else on these little mini-vacations.

Because of DCA, I'm spending more time at the resort, spending more money at the resort, and coming back more often.

[BFG3dfx]

I don't live in the area and have to travel. I used to go to Disneyland for a day when I was visiting relatives in the area. I'd also go to Knott's for a day and maybe Universal. Now, I book a hotel stay and stay for at least three days. During those three days I eat in the parks, I spend a little time in Downtown Disney, and since I'm flying in and don't have a car I rarely if ever go anywhere else on these little mini-vacations.

Because of DCA, I'm spending more time at the resort, spending more money at the resort, and coming back more often.

Did you join D23 too and go to the nearest Disney store 3 times a week roflol. So you used to get a car and drive to Knotts and Universal, WOW that drive to universal can be bad because of traffic, its not close you know? and now you get off the plane and take a bus right to DLR because of DCA haha. Ok : ) Well Disney just needs about half a million more of you then.

[Awesome]

Awesome, good post.

agree there are some good attractions over there, i however don't agree on them not fitting in DL.

Soaring is i think the best attraction in that park and i'd rather have that in TL than Nemo or Buzz or EO.

HToT and the Animation building could be in a new land about hollywood which could have had an entrance right behind the hot dog truck on the end of main street and that land could have came out next to the hat shop at the other end of main street(main street would have looked the same but with a back street open to more shops) and open to traffic during parades.

GRR could be in the land that was Bear Country , splash is sedate but a nice little family ride GRR would be for those who want alittle more and they could bring back the Bear Country Jam plus DCA's gift shop for GRR. put GRR at the end bring BCJ and GGR gift shop up by resturant.

Bring all that Toon stuff over into a new expanded FantasyLand.

Screamin doesn't seem to fit anywhere which is fine because my 74 year old mom thought it was ok, just. Sry no theme of intrest and ive been to six flags too many times.

These are just idea's but between the room behind both main streets which wouldn't need the face of main street to change and room around the river, room in critter country(all that can be torn out) room in TL and i'm sure some other places things could have been done. I still don't see the need for DCA, it doesn't fill the need they said it was built for.

Oh well i'll be dead soon and i won't have any memories of this lol.

Soarin' is definitely better than both Buzz, I'm assuming EO (but I've never seen it), and also Innoventions. However it is in NO way related to "The Future". And while that hasn't stopped DL in the past it seems like... it would be a huge step backwards for Tomorrowland if it had been placed there.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Hollywoodland would NOT fit in Disneyland. I can't imagine a single person who would honestly be ok with Disney adding a Hollywood-themed land. The current lands are themed around different fantasies, stories, and things children idolize... Hollywoodland is a huge NO in my book, and I"m sure the books of a TON of other people.

GRR is too large to be placed in Critter Country and bear mountain would add a huge sense of unbalance to the park. It would take away from the Matterhorn.
While theme-wise it might be the best place to put it if they had to put it in Disneyland... I still feel like it doesn't fit the Disneyland vibe. It's too modern.

I'm not a huge Screamin' fan myself either. Last time I rode it I got a headache and haven't ridden it in months. But that's not to say that a lot of other people love it and it is a good addition to DLR.

I stand by my point. While some of the attractions may be "acceptable" in parts of Disneyland, none of them are actually appropriate to the feel of the park.

[BFG3dfx]

Soarin' is definitely better than both Buzz, I'm assuming EO (but I've never seen it), and also Innoventions. However it is in NO way related to "The Future". And while that hasn't stopped DL in the past it seems like... it would be a huge step backwards for Tomorrowland if it had been placed there.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Hollywoodland would NOT fit in Disneyland. I can't imagine a single person who would honestly be ok with Disney adding a Hollywood-themed land. The current lands are themed around different fantasies, stories, and things children idolize... Hollywoodland is a huge NO in my book, and I"m sure the books of a TON of other people.

GRR is too large to be placed in Critter Country and bear mountain would add a huge sense of unbalance to the park. It would take away from the Matterhorn.
While theme-wise it might be the best place to put it if they had to put it in Disneyland... I still feel like it doesn't fit the Disneyland vibe. It's too modern.

I'm not a huge Screamin' fan myself either. Last time I rode it I got a headache and haven't ridden it in months. But that's not to say that a lot of other people love it and it is a good addition to DLR.

I stand by my point. While some of the attractions may be "acceptable" in parts of Disneyland, none of them are actually appropriate to the feel of the park.

Awesome, i do see your points, i know nothing is a perfect fit but i was just saying in general things could be placed somewhere,

i figured Soarin would have to be rethemed to fit TL but i didn't add that beacause that ride is perfect( i think anyways)

As for hollywoodland goes, hollywood is pretty darn old, the land cound be themed to be around same age as main street or a little older, the HToT looks pretty old, 20's to 40's isn't it?