View Poll Results: What do you think of this concept for a Condor Flats show?

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  1. #46

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    Re: New AA show for Condor Flats (with LOTS of "concept art"!)

    So much effort, I liked the ideas! I'd rather see in the Hollywood area, there's things to remove there and I know Taste Pilot's grill pulls in a pretty penny for them.

  2. #47

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    Re: New AA show for Condor Flats (with LOTS of "concept art"!)

    Quote Originally Posted by aashee View Post
    So much effort, I liked the ideas! I'd rather see in the Hollywood area, there's things to remove there and I know Taste Pilot's grill pulls in a pretty penny for them.
    Thanks. I've heard a few people suggest Hollywood, but I think the attraction would lose a lot of layers in that case--it would only be about the music, whereas in the Condor Flats area you get all the additional elements of the war effort, and it really immerses you in the experiences of the pilots. It has more drama inherent in it, as this concert is just a little bit of fun worked into an otherwise very dangerous life for these people, and this would be played up in the script surrounding the songs, and in the movies for the intermissions.

    (Also, Hollywoodland has lots of space for much more elaborate ride systems, and there's lots of promising attraction ideas to revitalize that area. I can't think of much else that would fit in Condor Flats.)

    I'm pretty sure this restaurant would deliver several pretty pennies. Given the difficulty of getting reservations at the Blue Bayou, I'd say there's definitely a market for more upscale dining at DLR. Also, the basic burger-bar concept of Taste Pilots can be rethemed to almost anything (it seems just made for Carsland, IMHO) and can just as easily make its pretty penny elsewhere in the park.
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  3. #48

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    Re: New AA show for Condor Flats (with LOTS of "concept art"!)

    Quote Originally Posted by MistaDee View Post
    After sitting on this for a while i must say I really would like to see it. But I mentioned it to some of my mainstream friends (22, 14,15) and I was met with a resounding no. They had only heard of Louis Armstrong and one who is majoring in music (the 22 year old) said that he really felt that the music did not warrant a 45 minute show.

    I'm going to have to agree with them. For people who really enjoy this music it makes much more sense to just go to a jazz club and see it live and for real. This would be too much money for something that I really don't believe would be successful. They are classic figures but so is Jane Austen and she isn't going to be appearing in any AA shows soon! (plus the licensing would be huge to use these people's likenesses)
    I think what I'm trying to get at is that the attraction would present so much more than just the music (which is excellent, of course!). What would make it stand out is re-creating the unique atmosphere of the era, especially among servicemen and women. That's an experience that just doesn't exist anymore, and so being to step inside of that would be something very special. Therefore, it's "real" in a very different way from the way a live concert is...it brings back to life a bygone place and time.

    In that respect, I'm not as concerned with people not knowing all about the artists at the beginning (I expect them to have a vague notion of what WWII was, however!). I envision people being pulled in by the gritty wartime atmosphere (and/or trying out a new restaurant), and then being very pleasantly surprised by a whole new experience for them, and discovering this great music and fun characters.

    Also, I think balance and depth are very important in a classic Disney resort. Disneyland has classics like Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln and the Mark Twain, and DCA needs to dig a little deeper to find its character. As you know, I'm quite a thrill junkie for roller coasters, but I think what makes a Disney park special is that there are nuanced attractions and relaxing entertainment, too. Something like this allows guests to take a break from the hectic pace of the resort, still while being immersed in a very entertaining show with E-ticket craft.
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  4. #49

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    Re: New AA show for Condor Flats (with LOTS of "concept art"!)

    I'm curious why you went with AA figures and not live actors? It seems to me that the novelty of audio-animatronics might wear off in the course of a dinner; but live figures might spice it up a wee bit? Particularly for return diners?

    But I really love the ides; I would most certainly go, love the music and the whole atmosphere and I know a lot of people who love the idea of a World War II

    This is a nearby restaurant to where I live that's themed to a WWII base and it's always packed.
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  5. #50

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    Re: New AA show for Condor Flats (with LOTS of "concept art"!)

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoleloveswalt View Post
    I'm curious why you went with AA figures and not live actors? It seems to me that the novelty of audio-animatronics might wear off in the course of a dinner; but live figures might spice it up a wee bit? Particularly for return diners?
    It isn't really feasible to expect human beings to perform 5 concurrent shows, all day, every day, and repeating the same 8-9 minutes over and over again.

    AAs give you the opportunity to re-create the great artists (think Hall of Presidents, but with MUCH more singing and dancing!), which I think is a more special only-in-Disneyland type of experience, rather than hearing songs covered by passable modern singers.

    Another thing is that there is a whole additional component to the show taking place on the video screens. This is meant to really surround you with the nostalgia of the era and make you feel that you are seating amongst people who really lived at that time. When you count up the orchestra, swing dancers, and other diners at the lounge, you're looking at about 150 supporting cast members. Now, that's perfectly feasible to videotape once, but to have live human beings put on that show multiple times a day?! (First of all, where would you have space for an actual dance floor?) And, you can't really combine live actors with those on the video screens for something like this, since it would be just about impossible to time a live performance to look like the recorded characters are dancing to it.

    But, to your main point, the AAs would be programmed to have lots of incidental mannerisms (small gestures and expressions that wouldn't affect the overall timing of the show) that would play semi-randomly throughout the show, and some would even react to the audience's applause level, etc. These little touches would give the show more immediacy and encourage repeat viewing.
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  6. #51

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    Re: New AA show for Condor Flats (with LOTS of "concept art"!)

    I have to say that I LOVE this idea and that it is genius. The theming is great and I can see your vision for this place. This type of attracttion/dinner show would be perfect in Condor Flats with some retheming in the area ofcourse, maybe a couple of WWII planes sitting in picturesque corners instead of that one plane that no one gives a dang about, poor plane. Anyways, it would be a great addition, but the trouble I have is with Soarin'. The building would be themed to the area, but you're essentially walking from a WWII airfield onto commercial airline style gliders. Idk, the Soarin' queue and pre-show would have to be rethemed to something more in theme with the land.

  7. #52

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    Re: New AA show for Condor Flats (with LOTS of "concept art"!)

    Quote Originally Posted by AGD View Post
    It isn't really feasible to expect human beings to perform 5 concurrent shows, all day, every day, and repeating the same 8-9 minutes over and over again.

    AAs give you the opportunity to re-create the great artists (think Hall of Presidents, but with MUCH more singing and dancing!), which I think is a more special only-in-Disneyland type of experience, rather than hearing songs covered by passable modern singers.

    Another thing is that there is a whole additional component to the show taking place on the video screens. This is meant to really surround you with the nostalgia of the era and make you feel that you are seating amongst people who really lived at that time. When you count up the orchestra, swing dancers, and other diners at the lounge, you're looking at about 150 supporting cast members. Now, that's perfectly feasible to videotape once, but to have live human beings put on that show multiple times a day?! (First of all, where would you have space for an actual dance floor?) And, you can't really combine live actors with those on the video screens for something like this, since it would be just about impossible to time a live performance to look like the recorded characters are dancing to it.

    But, to your main point, the AAs would be programmed to have lots of incidental mannerisms (small gestures and expressions that wouldn't affect the overall timing of the show) that would play semi-randomly throughout the show, and some would even react to the audience's applause level, etc. These little touches would give the show more immediacy and encourage repeat viewing.
    But human beings wouldn't have to perform the same songs. They could switch it up, and they could also be switched with other performers. It just seems to me that AA's novelty wears off after a while, and they are also not as advanced or realistic as they would need to be

    Yeah, the video screens were one of my favorite parts of your first post. Love that idea. Could they not work in conjunction with live performers?
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  8. #53

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    Re: New AA show for Condor Flats (with LOTS of "concept art"!)

    I'm on board for the idea. I have to agree, I would love it in Hollywoodland though. I understand the idea for a WWII airfield, and there's a lot that Disney could do with that from it's propaganda cartoons to Dahl's Gremlins, which they were supposed to adapt.

    This idea to me, though, just screams the Hollywood Canteen. The performers you mention all did their stints there (except Ella Fitzgerald, but I'm still checking on that). And for your Christmas overlay, Judy Garland was known for bringing all at the Canteen to tears when she sang "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas."

    Again, I love it either way, but I think tying it to the Hollywood Canteen takes it that next step.

  9. #54

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    Re: New AA show for Condor Flats (with LOTS of "concept art"!)

    I'm always amazed when a 'chatter takes their love of Disney and creates such a detailed concept. Good work.
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  10. #55

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    Re: New AA show for Condor Flats (with LOTS of "concept art"!)

    Quote Originally Posted by AGD View Post
    I think what I'm trying to get at is that the attraction would present so much more than just the music (which is excellent, of course!). What would make it stand out is re-creating the unique atmosphere of the era, especially among servicemen and women. That's an experience that just doesn't exist anymore, and so being to step inside of that would be something very special. Therefore, it's "real" in a very different way from the way a live concert is...it brings back to life a bygone place and time.


    In that respect, I'm not as concerned with people not knowing all about the artists at the beginning (I expect them to have a vague notion of what WWII was, however!). I envision people being pulled in by the gritty wartime atmosphere (and/or trying out a new restaurant), and then being very pleasantly surprised by a whole new experience for them, and discovering this great music and fun characters.

    My friends said that they weren't especially interested in the time period compared to the way they were by visiting space or a jungle. Also some people might be turned off of the restaurant if they dislike the music or theme some people are very sensitive to music and tying down this restaurant to an attraction might actually turn off some people from eating there as all that high energy would be a bit too much for them if they wanted to just take a little time for peace and solace.

    Also, I think balance and depth are very important in a classic Disney resort. Disneyland has classics like Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln and the Mark Twain, and DCA needs to dig a little deeper to find its character. As you know, I'm quite a thrill junkie for roller coasters, but I think what makes a Disney park special is that there are nuanced attractions and relaxing entertainment, too. Something like this allows guests to take a break from the hectic pace of the resort, still while being immersed in a very entertaining show with E-ticket craft.
    Also the lively music might actually make the attraction less enticing as listening to 45 minutes nonstop of high energy music can be boring. As in a concert (pacewise not musicwise) there are changes in tempo and mood to keep interest.

    I still have to question wether this would appeal to the mainstream, I realize your target audience is the harder core disney fan but this still seems like something that would be at the jazz museum than DCA.

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  11. #56

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    Re: New AA show for Condor Flats (with LOTS of "concept art"!)

    I love the music! That's my kind of show! But there is just one issue I keep seeing with this idea that is concerning to me. Relying on a 45 minute "deadline" to eat a meal (an expensive meal at that) is something that I think would cause a lot of problems. Even if you order ahead of time, what if you decide to send the meal back because it isn't cooked right, or you're allergic to something in it, or who knows what? That's going to set back time and the whole thing could become complicated. Also, some people are slow eaters. They might decide to spent 15 minutes watching the show and waiting for their food to cool down before digging in. It's a complete variable. But other than this dilemma, I think it's an awesome idea and I love all the theming elements you've included!

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    Re: New AA show for Condor Flats (with LOTS of "concept art"!)

    Quote Originally Posted by mkeeler View Post
    I'm on board for the idea. I have to agree, I would love it in Hollywoodland though. I understand the idea for a WWII airfield, and there's a lot that Disney could do with that from it's propaganda cartoons to Dahl's Gremlins, which they were supposed to adapt.

    This idea to me, though, just screams the Hollywood Canteen. The performers you mention all did their stints there (except Ella Fitzgerald, but I'm still checking on that). And for your Christmas overlay, Judy Garland was known for bringing all at the Canteen to tears when she sang "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas."

    Again, I love it either way, but I think tying it to the Hollywood Canteen takes it that next step.
    But they were also very famous on the USO circuit as well--especially the Andrews Sisters, Bing Crosby, and Judy Garland. I know that Louis Armstrong traveled with the USO later, and I can't find anything on Ella Fitzgerald.

    And, "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas" was especially popular with soldiers in WWII...that song was actually the whole inspiration for the Christmas overlay.
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  13. #58

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    Re: New AA show for Condor Flats (with LOTS of "concept art"!)

    Quote Originally Posted by MistaDee View Post
    Also the lively music might actually make the attraction less enticing as listening to 45 minutes nonstop of high energy music can be boring. As in a concert (pacewise not musicwise) there are changes in tempo and mood to keep interest.

    I still have to question wether this would appeal to the mainstream, I realize your target audience is the harder core disney fan but this still seems like something that would be at the jazz museum than DCA.

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    That's exactly why I included Judy Garland's "Embraceable You" to have a slow interlude.

    (Bing Crosby's "When My Dream Boat Comes Home" is kind of middle-ground, energy-wise).

    As for the mainstream--well, I don't think a park should confine itself only to what is safe and obvious for a target market...I think that's what went wrong with DCA in the first place.

    Yes, I do need to update the signature...I've just been kept on my toes with all the replies. People have had some really thoughtful comments!
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  14. #59

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    Re: New AA show for Condor Flats (with LOTS of "concept art"!)

    Quote Originally Posted by scorsese View Post
    Even if you order ahead of time, what if you decide to send the meal back because it isn't cooked right, or you're allergic to something in it, or who knows what? That's going to set back time and the whole thing could become complicated.
    Good points. I think in the more rare cases that something goes wrong like you describe, they would just be invited to sit for another round through the theater, or finish their meal in the cocktail lounge if they prefer.

    45 minutes should cover most "normal" meals, and the server would politely offer carry-out containers in the last performance, which would nudge ahead the slow ones!
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    Re: New AA show for Condor Flats (with LOTS of "concept art"!)

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoleloveswalt View Post
    But human beings wouldn't have to perform the same songs. They could switch it up, and they could also be switched with other performers. It just seems to me that AA's novelty wears off after a while, and they are also not as advanced or realistic as they would need to be
    They already have something rather similar to that in the Plaza Gardens. While I certainly like the music for the music's sake, this has a slightly different focus.

    I dunno...I think the new Lincoln and Obama are pretty darn convincing (Lincoln's face is way better, but personally I think Obama's gesturing is more natural). Also, I think it's easier to "choregraph" the AAs to something as structured as a musical performance--to give the body the subtle animation during down-time is one of the hardest things to do convincingly.

    Yeah, the video screens were one of my favorite parts of your first post. Love that idea. Could they not work in conjunction with live performers?
    It's a cause and effect thing. The performance is the "independent" variable, and the audience is the "dependent" variable. Since the audience should be reacting, they can't really be less flexible than the performance. Think of how easy it is to dance to recorded music, but how difficult it would be to play music to match a tape of a person dancing to it.
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