View Poll Results: What do you think of this concept for a Condor Flats show?

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  1. #91

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    Re: New AA show for Condor Flats (with LOTS of "concept art"!)

    Quote Originally Posted by AGD View Post
    I guess I have more faith in the capacity of the modern AA's to give convincing performances.

    "Dead people's music"...ouch! I'd give it more credit than that, and it really does have lots of enduring popularity. For instance, "Candyman" came out only a few years ago and did quite well. I gather from your earlier posts that you're the only one in your circle that listens to this music--maybe you've just internalized your cohort's distaste for it a bit too much. I find it gets pretty wide appreciation. Even my little sister's friends who generally listen to whatever's marketed most heavily (teenagers!), always get enthused for some good old-fashioned swing.
    True true I have exaggerated quite a bit, just coming back from the mall they were playing some Frank Sinatra. Consider me on board with the music! I do still find trouble with the use of celebrities images. Maybe a fictional band doing covers? I don't know.

    Quote Originally Posted by AGD View Post
    Regarding the USO show, it would be more of a USO community center sort of thing (they maintained a lot of these on the home front), so the USO would have been a presence at the base for at least a few years (assuming it takes place somewhere in '44-'45), so they're pretty well established. It's just that it shouldn't have an ultra-pulled together look like a Hollywood club, since this was a space that was refurbed during a war. And the officers' club would of course be very chic.
    Well that sounds good then

    Quote Originally Posted by AGD View Post
    You bring up an interesting point in scale. The way I see it, an attraction like this either needs to go big, or go home. Making it something of a grand scale that you can really sink your teeth into will probably get a bigger response than a watered-down version. This certainly applies as far as effects--choice of songs, sophistication of the AA's, the whole supporting cast to make it very lush. A half-hearted concert won't hold people's attention, but something that really thrusts you into the wartime spirit will.

    As for the length, to be quite honest the main determinant is the restaurant, and without it I would certainly have the show be shorter. However, I think that the market for high-end meals is definitely there, it gives the attraction the potential to be profitable, and it really adds a valuable component to giving the sense that you're really there, which I feel this attraction hinges on. Also, I see the restaurant as a major driving force in its popularity: lots of people might not set out time to see a show for itself, but would be happy to pay good money to be fed & entertained in such fine fashion. As for me, I would make a point to go to Blue Bayou one day and America Swings the next for my meals at the resort!

    So, it basically comes down to: would the attraction be more successful shorter, without a restaurant, or longer with it? I would have to say the latter, and if that limits the casual-spectator attendance somewhat, that's okay, because the demand for the restaurant & counter service would make up for it both financially and popularly.
    Regarding the grandness factor. I think one stageful of band could still be quite grand! Maybe they could have rotating acts per day like 3 different ones per day. The restaurant could be in the balcony and they would be able to stay for as long as they'd like probably 2 acts.

    And still I have to question where the excitement would come from! The theme isn't so fantastical and there doesn't seem to be much humor. Maybe a living character initiative could spice things up.
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  2. #92

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    Re: New AA show for Condor Flats (with LOTS of "concept art"!)

    Quote Originally Posted by MistaDee View Post
    I do still find trouble with the use of celebrities images. Maybe a fictional band doing covers? I don't know.
    You see, I just don't find covers nearly as appealing. You lose so much of the essence of the period and what makes these performers great artists. Also, a cover band is something you can see/hear anywhere. Part of the point of this attraction is bringing these famous people to life, for the nostalgia for those who know them already, and to pleasantly surprise those who didn't yet!

    Yes, it would be more expensive, but it's a cost that adds that only-in-Disneyland special aspect to the attraction, and puts it in a whole different league. And, I'll have to give you some good-hearted teasing since you have an attraction plan that wants *twice* as much space and *twice* as many show scenes and *twice* as many AAs as a rider would go experience in one show, and one of the most expensive ride systems possible . Now, I totally think that extra expense would make your ride so much more special and interesting, but you know in the real world lots of that would be on the chopping block.

    Regarding the grandness factor. I think one stageful of band could still be quite grand! Maybe they could have rotating acts per day like 3 different ones per day.
    I'm working on trying to incorporate Semiquaver's idea for an A show and a B show, so I'll get back to you on this once I sort out some details. It's proving tricky!

    The restaurant could be in the balcony and they would be able to stay for as long as they'd like probably 2 acts.
    Believe me, I really tried to think of some way to include a balcony...but I found it would be just too darn difficult to do the video screens when people have such different viewing angles, that I had to scrap it .

    And still I have to question where the excitement would come from!
    Well, like I said, this isn't supposed to be a thriller ride. It's supposed to be entertaining more than exciting in the traditional sense. Also, since I am a bit of a thrill junkie, this intrigued me as a design challenge to put together something that didn't rely on adrenaline. It should be something that you can slow down and refresh yourself, but still be an E-ticket in quality, and fun in a different way from a roller coaster.

    The theme isn't so fantastical and there doesn't seem to be much humor.
    This will really come through in Charlie's script, which I'll have to say, honestly I'm just too lazy to write in full! But, I see the show and the performers being very dynamic--there's lots of playful banter between Charlie and the band, and the performers. I haven't specifically nailed down a character for the pianist yet, but I think he and Charlie will squabble a bit, or try to upstage each other. The dialogue will be very fast paced, and the AAs will be programmed so there's "sparks" between them and their performances should really bounce off each other.

    Another thing, the dancers would be *very* good--lots of flips, drops, aerials etc. on the left side of the theater, so they'd really keep the energy up.

    Also, the video screens would have lots of funny content--it would play out mostly as pantomime (but there would be low-level realistic chatter that didn't distract from the performance) with slightly exaggerated facial expressions/gestures so you can get the picture. It would be lots of little vignettes--a plain-looking guy keeps asking girls to dance and no one will, but then he turns out to be really good and then they start crowding around him, somebody gets too fresh with a girl and she slaps him, girls squabble over the same guy, guys squabble over the same girl, dance "battles" between couples. On the other side of the theater, you see people vying for attention for the opposite sex, dates arguing with each other when they catch each other checking out someone else, people are kissing up to higher ranking people, buddies are egging each other on to go talk to someone, some guy is persistently chatting up a girl who's totally not interested, and then her date shows up and he's the first guy's commander.

    The movies that are shown between sets would also be funny: either because they're cartoons, or because they have that over-the-top attitude of films of the day. There would also be a running gag that people in the lounge start mocking the films. One would be an announcement like "Commander So-and-so wants to remind all pilots..." and as one guy is imitating the commander, it turns out he's right behind him.

    So, in general, there's an upbeat atmosphere and lots of camaraderie and interaction. I kind of see it that each part should support each other--i.e., everything is centered around the music, but you could watch the attraction once being thoroughly entertained by the music, the next time you could focus on the dancing, the next time the people in the lounge, and each time you should see a gag you hadn't noticed before.

    Okay, that turned out to be a lot longer than I intended, but I hope I could get across the mood I'm seeing for it.
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  3. #93

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    Re: New AA show for Condor Flats (with LOTS of "concept art"!)

    Hehehe you got me there! Though in defense that would be more widely appealing.

    I can't help but think that jokes between AAs would come off terribly and canned. Maybe Charlie could be a cm? There's just something about a real person.

    And as you said the show is centered around music and I think it could be very powerful, but just watching people play it as high energy as you say just isn't that exciting.

    Another reason it might bot work is because of the maturity of the park. This might make sense in Disneyland but dca needs more broadly appealing shows.
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  4. #94

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    Re: New AA show for Condor Flats (with LOTS of "concept art"!)

    Quote Originally Posted by MistaDee View Post
    Hehehe you got me there! Though in defense that would be more widely appealing.

    I can't help but think that jokes between AAs would come off terribly and canned. Maybe Charlie could be a cm? There's just something about a real person.

    And as you said the show is centered around music and I think it could be very powerful, but just watching people play it as high energy as you say just isn't that exciting.

    Another reason it might bot work is because of the maturity of the park. This might make sense in Disneyland but dca needs more broadly appealing shows.
    I dunno...look at the droids in star tours...Capt. Rex, C3PO, and the former-America Sings goose all manage to be pretty funny. I think the timing of a joke depends so much on the comedic timing of the voices.

    Here's a very rough idea of how I imagine the members of the band playing off each other--not so much stand-up jokes, but banter:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXD8ct6kUTE"]Some Like It Hot[/ame]

    The interaction between Charlie & the pianist would be very much like Tony Curtis & Jack Lemon (especially at 6:30). The plot is irrelevant to the present attraction, of course, but the pacing is perfect.
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  5. #95

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    Re: New AA show for Condor Flats (with LOTS of "concept art"!)

    Quote Originally Posted by AGD View Post
    The website says they do...

    Not that you could know it but I meant at DCA. They don't have any speciality shops like Disneyland does that serves anything like the Candy Palace. Talk about layers of difference between parks.

  6. #96

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    Re: New AA show for Condor Flats (with LOTS of "concept art"!)

    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorD View Post
    Not that you could know it but I meant at DCA. They don't have any speciality shops like Disneyland does that serves anything like the Candy Palace. Talk about layers of difference between parks.
    Here's hoping BVS will change that...
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  7. #97

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    Re: New AA show for Condor Flats (with LOTS of "concept art"!)

    Okay, so I've been trying to find the perfect example of comedic banter to illustrate the tone of the show, and often it's hard to dissociate it from the plot of the particular comedy, but I think I found an example here that really shows the dynamic the performers will have on the stage:

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIXZPmKMUuI]YouTube - Julie Andrews and Robert Preston "You And Me"[/ame]

    from Victor/Victoria
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  8. #98

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    Re: New AA show for Condor Flats (with LOTS of "concept art"!)

    Quote Originally Posted by AGD View Post
    I dunno...look at the droids in star tours...Capt. Rex, C3PO, and the former-America Sings goose all manage to be pretty funny. I think the timing of a joke depends so much on the comedic timing of the voices.
    This is true... I suppose some of the comedic value may have worn off after hearing "....but I'm still getting used to my programming!" for the thousandth time kinda killed it for me. With this there could be hundreds of possibilites for different dialogue. (just don't make him as "funny" as mister P)

    I still think just watching people perform music isn't that interesting for an E ticket attraction!
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  9. #99

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    Re: New AA show for Condor Flats (with LOTS of "concept art"!)

    Quote Originally Posted by AGD View Post
    Here's hoping BVS will change that...
    Here here

  10. #100

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    Re: New AA show for Condor Flats (with LOTS of "concept art"!)

    Quote Originally Posted by MistaDee View Post
    This is true... I suppose some of the comedic value may have worn off after hearing "....but I'm still getting used to my programming!" for the thousandth time kinda killed it for me. With this there could be hundreds of possibilites for different dialogue. (just don't make him as "funny" as mister P)
    Honestly, how often do they re-write the lines for their live shows? Not often, really...

    Also, think about the Tower of Terror. If you get a really good CM they can make the loading really funny, but if you get a fair-to-middling CM that just goes through the motions, it loses a lot. Now, if the CM was supposed to hold up the whole show, you could be in a lot of trouble comedically.

    I still think just watching people perform music isn't that interesting for an E ticket attraction!
    And the Tiki room? The Country Bear Jamboree? Isn't GMWML "just" watching him perform a speech?

    btw, lots of people pay lots of money to see music performed, in a wide variety of styles. If you look at the clips of Louis Armstrong, Judy Garland, and especially the Andrews Sisters, they're very engaging & energetic performers.

    And, it's not *just* watching people perform music--there's dancing, there's cartoons, there's sight gags, there's a very lively club atmosphere.
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  11. #101

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    Re: New AA show for Condor Flats (with LOTS of "concept art"!)

    Quote Originally Posted by AGD View Post
    Honestly, how often do they re-write the lines for their live shows? Not often, really...

    Also, think about the Tower of Terror. If you get a really good CM they can make the loading really funny, but if you get a fair-to-middling CM that just goes through the motions, it loses a lot. Now, if the CM was supposed to hold up the whole show, you could be in a lot of trouble comedically.
    No No! You misunderstand I'm on your side, with the new technology these days there could be hundreds of different jokes from Charlie. (Though in defense of the live entertainment the Genie does change jokes quite often)

    Quote Originally Posted by AGD View Post
    And the Tiki room? The Country Bear Jamboree? Isn't GMWML "just" watching him perform a speech?
    This hits the problem on the head! The Tiki Room is a nostalgic classic with birds that would never be able to be real, The Bears were humorous and fantastical and Abraham Lincoln evokes feelings of patriotism and nostalgia! I just don't think that this would have any of these things besides humour and feelings of ...(deep voice) swing

    Quote Originally Posted by AGD View Post
    btw, lots of people pay lots of money to see music performed, in a wide variety of styles. If you look at the clips of Louis Armstrong, Judy Garland, and especially the Andrews Sisters, they're very engaging & energetic performers.
    People pay money to see real people play real music There would be a creepiness factor that I think you are underrating. I don't think this music is old enough to be classic like Mr. Lincoln and wouldn't be enough to hold people's attention for 45 minutes. The restaurant yes because there is food and conversation to distract from the AAs.

    This would work well as a restaurant or as a shorter show, but not the grand concept you've proposed. I don't believe either the park or the public are ready for it. (Though I sure as heck am!)


    Quote Originally Posted by AGD View Post
    And, it's not *just* watching people perform music--there's dancing, there's cartoons, there's sight gags, there's a very lively club atmosphere.
    Mmmm I'm still not sold. These are all things we can see anywhere else, almost like Paradise Pier in the other direction. As PP was too cheesy this is too classy.
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  12. #102

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    Re: New AA show for Condor Flats (with LOTS of "concept art"!)

    Quote Originally Posted by MistaDee View Post
    No No! You misunderstand I'm on your side, with the new technology these days there could be hundreds of different jokes from Charlie. (Though in defense of the live entertainment the Genie does change jokes quite often)
    Yes, and I touch on the "incidental" actions of the AAs to be lifelike and change the show up a bit. A practical thing though, I'd like the AAs to be programmed to seem to interact with each other as much as possible, which means their movements have to be timed together very tightly. That means that any variety in jokes has to be timed such that reactions of the other AAs are still valid (or they all have to be directed by a central processor).

    This hits the problem on the head! The Tiki Room is a nostalgic classic with birds that would never be able to be real, The Bears were humorous and fantastical and Abraham Lincoln evokes feelings of patriotism and nostalgia! I just don't think that this would have any of these things besides humour and feelings of ...(deep voice) swing
    Really, swing and WWII have TONS of Nostalgia associated with them that's going strong in the present day. The Swing Revival of the late '90s, Dancing With The Stars, So You Think You Can Dance, Candyman, Big Bad Voodoo Daddy's new album, Saving Private Ryan, Pearl Harbor, Swing Kids, The Reader, Schindler's List, The English Patient, The Thin Red Line, Enigma, Enemy At The Gates, Life Is Beautiful, Downfall, Flags of Our Fathers, Letters from Iwo Jima, Atonement, Miracle at Santa Anna, The Boy in the Striped Pajamas, Defiance, Valkyrie, Inglorious Basterds...all since 1993.

    And, of course, the enduring youtube popularity of Hitler videos!!
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CyzgOupqLg]YouTube - Hitler Makes a YouTube Video[/ame]
    (Totally not appropriate for Disneyland, of course, but definitely points to the enduring significance of WWII)

    This would work well as a restaurant or as a shorter show, but not the grand concept you've proposed. I don't believe either the park or the public are ready for it. (Though I sure as heck am!)
    I'm working on incorporating Semiquaver's ideas for a 1/2 length show for the spectators, so details will be forthcoming.

    Mmmm I'm still not sold. These are all things we can see anywhere else,
    But you can't have Louis Armstrong serenade you anywhere else, much less imagine that he's chatting with you in a "live" concert. And, unless you have a very committed dance scene in your community, you probably don't get anywhere close to this level of authenticity at swing dances, EVEN if people make the effort to dress up.

    almost like Paradise Pier in the other direction. As PP was too cheesy this is too classy.
    This I freely admit to. DCA needs to be classier. Hence why DCA needs this attraction!
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  13. #103

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    Re: New AA show for Condor Flats (with LOTS of "concept art"!)

    Oh, forgot to address your point about the creepiness factor. For one thing, I think the AAs have just gotten good enough to be able to do this (and I mean just...Obama's facial expressions can't do this, but Lincoln's can). Also, it certainly wouldn't be any more creepy than the Hall of Presidents, actually significantly less so. The singing and gesturing that goes along with it, along with the generally faster pace of the dialogue actually make it much less likely to be creepy, because everyone is doing something, and doing something "big." Especially because the entertainers of the day had very theatrical gestures to their performances, so you can reproduce that more easily than, say, Barack Obama's characteristic hand gestures (which, actually, they got pretty well).
    Last edited by AGD; 02-25-2010 at 08:16 PM. Reason: basic English language fail
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  14. #104

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    Re: New AA show for Condor Flats (with LOTS of "concept art"!)

    Quote Originally Posted by AGD View Post

    Really, swing and WWII have TONS of Nostalgia associated with them that's going strong in the present day. The Swing Revival of the late '90s, Dancing With The Stars, So You Think You Can Dance, Candyman, Big Bad Voodoo Daddy's new album, Saving Private Ryan, Pearl Harbor, Swing Kids, The Reader, Schindler's List, The English Patient, The Thin Red Line, Enigma, Enemy At The Gates, Life Is Beautiful, Downfall, Flags of Our Fathers, Letters from Iwo Jima, Atonement, Miracle at Santa Anna, The Boy in the Striped Pajamas, Defiance, Valkyrie, Inglorious Basterds...all since 1993.

    But you can't have Louis Armstrong serenade you anywhere else, much less imagine that he's chatting with you in a "live" concert. And, unless you have a very committed dance scene in your community, you probably don't get anywhere close to this level of authenticity at swing dances, EVEN if people make the effort to dress up.
    This I freely admit to. DCA needs to be classier. Hence why DCA needs this attraction!
    All the swing references you had were reality tv shows or movies. Neither of these are popular because of swing! They may have it but really it's not an important component. To be frank those reality shows are just post Idol mania with networks eye's going cha ching and the war movies success is due to emotional storytelling and battle scenes. Neither of which are a component of the show.
    And it's true that you can't see Louis Armstrong play live anywhere else but I think that his presence in a theme park would cheapen the man. And! There would be liscensing problems as well. Watching a movie or a tribute band would be a better experience.

    And yes this would be an incredibly classy attraction but it is not a good thing for dca at this point it would be too much of a niche.
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    Re: New AA show for Condor Flats (with LOTS of "concept art"!)

    Quote Originally Posted by MistaDee View Post
    All the swing references you had were reality tv shows or movies. Neither of these are popular because of swing! They may have it but really it's not an important component. To be frank those reality shows are just post Idol mania with networks eye's going cha ching and the war movies success is due to emotional storytelling and battle scenes. Neither of which are a component of the show.
    Totally disagree. The thing is, it's a theme that sells. It's a theme that people flock to, and have tons of cultural associations that brings in an emotional investment.

    And it's true that you can't see Louis Armstrong play live anywhere else but I think that his presence in a theme park would cheapen the man.
    Yeah. Poor Lincoln. I hear they're taking him off the five.

    And! There would be liscensing problems as well.
    All that takes as money, MistaSixteenShowScenes

    Watching a movie or a tribute band would be a better experience.
    Not necessarily. Movies are nice, but that's totally different from having a 3D immersive experience. And, I've heard a lot of tributes and covers...nowhere near the quality of the real thing, and nothing like getting the full flavor of the era.

    And yes this would be an incredibly classy attraction but it is not a good thing for dca at this point it would be too much of a niche.
    This is the mindset that gave us the DCA we have now (or worse, had in 2001). By all means we'd need to keep the pace up for the modern audience, but presenting quality attractions that are thoughtful and fun is what separates Disneyland from Six Flags.
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