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  1. #106

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    Re: So...whose is it, really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Atari Adventure View Post
    Not in my family, nor any family that I know of. Every detail is important and relevent. When contracted, the artist has strict specifications to follow.
    You telling us that people still contract this kind of work?? That seems pretty pathetic.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  2. #107

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    Re: So...whose is it, really?

    Quote Originally Posted by sediment View Post
    You telling us that people still contract this kind of work?? That seems pretty pathetic.
    An artist is not going to do it for free, Joe the Plumber might. I am sure the Queen of England would agree with you.

  3. #108

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    Re: So...whose is it, really?

    Missed this the first time around...

    I wish we did thread nominations on this board. And forget month, I'd like to nominate this for "Thread of the Year."

    Great work, everyone. Can we please have more threads that are of this caliber? The investigative research bug is well suited for us super-fans.

  4. #109

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    Re: So...whose is it, really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Atari Adventure View Post
    Not in my family, nor any family that I know of. Every detail is important and relevent. When contracted, the artist has strict specifications to follow.
    Are you talking about heraldry or graphic design? I'm talking about heraldry, in which a lion passant is a lion passant is a lion passant, and stylistic differences between artists are disregarded in tracing genealogy by means of achievements. Some of these coats of arms have survived for hundreds of years and would certainly not be drawn or painted by the same person every time, and that's not even taking into account changing fashions in art from one era to the next.

  5. #110

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    Re: So...whose is it, really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karalora View Post
    Are you talking about heraldry or graphic design? I'm talking about heraldry, in which a lion passant is a lion passant is a lion passant, and stylistic differences between artists are disregarded in tracing genealogy by means of achievements. Some of these coats of arms have survived for hundreds of years and would certainly not be drawn or painted by the same person every time, and that's not even taking into account changing fashions in art from one era to the next.
    In my opinion they go hand in hand. We have two Coats of Arms in our family. French and Dutch. It was drilled into us as kids what every color and detail meant. Example, on our Dutch Coat of Arms there is a Wolf. His stance, direction, items held, color of the Wolf as well as background color all have meaning.

    My information comes from my family history. Not from some website!

  6. #111

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    Re: So...whose is it, really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Atari Adventure View Post
    In my opinion they go hand in hand. We have two Coats of Arms in our family. French and Dutch. It was drilled into us as kids what every color and detail meant.
    The symbolism behind the various details on a coat of arms is entirely dependent on the family it represents. Some families have very specific details, and as such very specific requirements should a crest be drawn by a new artist. Other families have forgotten the meaning behind such details, and as such the main focus is the overall look and not necessarily the stylistic details. You can see stunning examples of both in various heraldry books... some coats do not change at all over centuries, others seem to change on a per era basis.

    Many coats also changed as the "rank" of the family itself was elevated. Technically they should also have changed as the "rank" was downgraded... but the reality is any downgrade is a humiliating embarrassment that no one wants to admit to. In cases where such a demotion was required then the family in question might have opted for a revised crest, thereby creating the confusion we see today. You also have the added confusion of marriage, and decisions made by the "next generation" which may or may not want to continue the tradition of their ancestors. You have a special family tradition... not everyone was as strict as your family or as traditional over the centuries.
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  7. #112

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    Re: So...whose is it, really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Atari Adventure View Post
    His stance, direction, items held, color of the Wolf as well as background color all have meaning.
    Okay, and how does that contradict my point? A lion passant is a lion passant. The exact angle at which the lifted forelimb is held, or the precise shape of the S-curve made by the tail, are not specified and are left up to the artist. What makes the C.R. English shield different from the Disneyland castle shield are the crest and the probable colors, not the the fact that the lions are not identical in appearance.

  8. #113

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    Re: So...whose is it, really?

    Im italian, so my coat of arms is two guns and a dead body hanging out of a car surounded by a 5,000 dollar gucci suit of arms...


    just trying to break up the monotony....umm...ya, ok ill shut up now....


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  9. #114

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    Re: So...whose is it, really?

    Thanks Karalora--I thought the main difference (other than the color) would be the lion head vs. the full lion on the crest.

  10. #115

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    Re: So...whose is it, really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Atari Adventure View Post
    An artist is not going to do it for free, Joe the Plumber might. I am sure the Queen of England would agree with you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Atari Adventure View Post
    In my opinion they go hand in hand. We have two Coats of Arms in our family. French and Dutch. It was drilled into us as kids what every color and detail meant. Example, on our Dutch Coat of Arms there is a Wolf. His stance, direction, items held, color of the Wolf as well as background color all have meaning.

    My information comes from my family history. Not from some website!
    I was wondering more about people in this day and age creating their coats of arms from scratch. Not people with coats of arms handed down from the ages.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  11. #116

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    Re: So...whose is it, really?

    Quote Originally Posted by dlandfamily View Post
    im italian, so my coat of arms is two guns and a dead body hanging out of a car surounded by a 5,000 dollar gucci suit of arms...


    Just trying to break up the monotony....umm...ya, ok ill shut up now....
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