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  1. #61

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    Re: "World of Color" OFFICIALLY Debuts June 11, 2010 (merged threads)

    I am so happy that they are doing AP previews. Because, I don't think I would be able to see the first public show because I go to school and then my dad picks me up and drives us there. lol.
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  2. #62

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    Re: "World of Color" OFFICIALLY Debuts June 11, 2010 (merged threads)

    Quote Originally Posted by d1mex View Post
    So Showpass is confirmed? June 11 YES!!!!! FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I don't think that anyone has made an official announcement about Showpass yet but you have to figure that it will be used on opening day unless they want a riot to break out.

  3. #63

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    Re: "World of Color" OFFICIALLY Debuts June 11, 2010 (merged threads)

    Is it possible that they might do more than one AP preview? I hope.
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  4. #64

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    Re: "World of Color" OFFICIALLY Debuts June 11, 2010 (merged threads)

    Quote Originally Posted by WestsideCM99 View Post
    I'm saying that the showpass people are going to camp out. Showpass doesn't guarantee that the holder gets a front row seat for any section, it just means that you get to watch from the park.
    If you want to camp out for a better view, then more power to you, but if you don't you can still have a decent place to watch the show. Whether or not a tall guy decides to stand in front of you is luck and can happen even without a ticketing system. What happens right now with Fantasmic is that people camp out before the sun even goes down. It is no big deal for an AP to spend a few hours camped out, but for a regular visitor that could mean sacrificing a sizable chunk of their day just to see the show.

    Plus the showpass system would also allow them to make sure more people get the show as hopefully the system would only allow you to get passes for one show a day. Fantasmic has a problem with people camping out and staying for both shows.

  5. #65

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    Re: "World of Color" OFFICIALLY Debuts June 11, 2010 (merged threads)

    Quote Originally Posted by WestsideCM99 View Post
    Just because you have a showpass it doesn't prevent you from winding up at the back of your section standing behind Shaq, Yao Ming, and Manute Bol (sorry, it's playoffs season). I am sure that there will be those who will camp out early just for the principal concern of being up front with an unobstructed view.
    Just having a showpass won't mean you get to stay in the park and camp. They'll clear the park out of EVERYONE before letting ticketed people in. That's the entire method behind discouraging camping!
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  6. #66

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    Re: "World of Color" OFFICIALLY Debuts June 11, 2010 (merged threads)

    Quote Originally Posted by SS77 View Post
    Is it possible that they might do more than one AP preview? I hope.
    Not sure but it's highly likely given the fact that there are over 2 million AP holders. No Offense to the Socal and select passholders but I hope that Disney restricts selection to just the Deluxe and/or Premium AP holders. That not only gives people the incentive to renew their existing Deluxe/Premium pass but it also encourages the Socal passholders to upgrade.

  7. #67

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    Wink Re: "World of Color" OFFICIALLY Debuts June 11, 2010 (merged threads)

    Quote Originally Posted by WestsideCM99 View Post
    Not sure but it's highly likely given the fact that there are over 2 million AP holders. No Offense to the Socal and select passholders but I hope that Disney restricts selection to just the Deluxe and/or Premium AP holders. That not only gives people the incentive to renew their existing Deluxe/Premium pass but it also encourages the Socal passholders to upgrade.
    Premiums get to sit in the park, every one else stands around the lagoon j/k

    I do hope they find a better way to do it than they did with Nemo, where SoCals were let in on a blockout day.

  8. #68

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    Re: "World of Color" OFFICIALLY Debuts June 11, 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by MainStreetJake View Post
    I can understand your situation, as I'm 100+ miles north, so I know what it's like. But from a business perspective, the showpass is the greatest way to get guests in the park and somewhat stay in the park. Get them there early to secure a spot for the WoC. Smart idea...but in my opinion, I think that first come first serve could be the best way.
    you know that a lot of annual passholders will get there early get the show pass and then leave. i could just see this happening for a while and the tourist will be out of luck having to not see the show or standing at an awkward area.

    it would be funny is maybe they could make the fastpass become invalid if the person leaves the park. LOL or better yet do not start offerng fastpasses until around 2pm. This will prevent annual passholders from rushing the park in the morning than leaving to go to work or school. it would give both the average tourist and annual pass holder a fair chance to get a ticket and still enjoy the park

  9. #69

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    Re: "World of Color" OFFICIALLY Debuts June 11, 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by ManaByte View Post
    Actually, it was. Disney had the June 11th date in the Summer Nightastic! press release and then edited the press release after the fact to remove the date.
    I forgot that part...thanks for the reminder. LOL

  10. #70

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    Re: "World of Color" OFFICIALLY Debuts June 11, 2010 (merged threads)

    There should be a week of just AP previews. Regular tourists, 90% of them, won't even know the show is open! Let alone actually know what it is!

  11. #71

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    Re: "World of Color" OFFICIALLY Debuts June 11, 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Baloo View Post
    you know that a lot of annual passholders will get there early get the show pass and then leave. i could just see this happening for a while and the tourist will be out of luck having to not see the show or standing at an awkward area.

    it would be funny is maybe they could make the fastpass become invalid if the person leaves the park. LOL or better yet do not start offerng fastpasses until around 2pm. This will prevent annual passholders from rushing the park in the morning than leaving to go to work or school. it would give both the average tourist and annual pass holder a fair chance to get a ticket and still enjoy the park
    This sounds like a great idea. You leave the park and your Showpass expires. LOL

    Wasn't there talk about only so many Show passes going to APs and tourists? The machine would scan your AP. Once those were out, an AP would HAVE to buy a regular ticket to get a showpass.

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    Re: "World of Color" OFFICIALLY Debuts June 11, 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Baloo View Post
    it would be funny is maybe they could make the fastpass become invalid if the person leaves the park. LOL or better yet do not start offerng fastpasses until around 2pm. This will prevent annual passholders from rushing the park in the morning than leaving to go to work or school. it would give both the average tourist and annual pass holder a fair chance to get a ticket and still enjoy the park
    ... or my rolling availability lotto mentioned before Helps everyone. Moving the start time to the afternoon simply means people will camp out for showpasses instead of at the park.
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  13. #73

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    Re: "World of Color" OFFICIALLY Debuts June 11, 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    ... or my rolling availability lotto mentioned before Helps everyone. Moving the start time to the afternoon simply means people will camp out for showpasses instead of at the park.
    Would you mind exlaining that again? Or sharing the link to where you mentioned it?

  14. #74

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    Re: "World of Color" OFFICIALLY Debuts June 11, 2010 (merged threads)

    I've booked my hotel room and plan on doing whatever it takes to get into one of the two shows on the 11th.

    So watch out.


    EDIT: I should say, rather, that I will be doing whatever it takes (without breaking any rules) to see WOC.
    Last edited by dland_lover; 04-20-2010 at 06:06 PM.

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    Re: "World of Color" OFFICIALLY Debuts June 11, 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by disneyland255 View Post
    Would you mind exlaining that again? Or sharing the link to where you mentioned it?
    Sure
    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    What harder then it needs to be. There is no need to have an online component at all. You already have an authorization system - the tickets. You already have an interface point - the Showpass distribution system.

    Let me break it a total solution that illustrates how you can build systems that solve many of the problems out there and has none of the concerns you mentioned about an online system.

    Problem Area #1 - Out of Town Tourists

    1. how to ensure out of towners paying full price don't get shafted out of WoC during their visit
    2. how to drive hotel bookings
    3. how to protect customer satisfaction between tourists and AP hordes

    Solution

    1. Take a slice of the Showpass capacity and give it to each hotel. The slice is scaled by factors including hotel bookings.
    2. Everyone staying at the hotels gets an opportunity to request showpasses through their concierge for that evening's show. They must make their request by a cut-off time (say 11am). The hotels print out the showpasses and give them to the guests. Guest verification is done however the hotel feels is necessary.. name, room key, whatever.
    3. Consumption by the hotel guests can be limited in three ways. For the early years, limit how many 'guaranteed' WoC shows each hotel stay is given. Example, 1 for <4 nights booking, 2 for >4 night bookings. This limitation would be relaxed over the years as WoC demand levels off. Second, the hotel has a fixed capacity of tickets scaled on their bookings. Third, the cut-off time. After the cut-off time each day, any unclaimed showpass capacity is added back to the main pool.

    This gives a massive incentive to stay at the hotels.. guaranteed WoC Showpasses hassle free! This system could also be later expanded and adapted to future FastPass incentive programs.

    Ok, so that gets you incentives to sell hotel rooms with, and ensures little Susie from Idaho is not going to get locked out of WoC during her stay to Disneyland.

    For guests that don't get a ticket when they request them - they are weighted (see below) to get a ticket for the next show. If after all their attempts there is no capacity, and still have a guaranteed show, simply issue them a ticket (see over subscription near the bottom). The system could also predict how many garunteeds are left and adjust their daily capacity the night before if needed.

    Now what about the rest?

    Problem Area #2 - the AP Hordes

    1. how to prevent camping out in the site all day long
    2. how to prevent mobs waiting to be let into a roped off viewing area
    3. how to prevent a mob waiting to bum rush any showpass distribution machines
    4. how to prevent the show from being 'sold out' minutes after the park opens which makes all the APs angry because they can't come whenever they want

    Solution? Weighted Lotto and Viewing Area rope off

    1. Leave the park open during the day time. Passing through CMs tell any campers they are going to get cleared out before the show, so there is no point in camping here. Show area stays open for what will be day shows eventually at some point in WoC's future
    2. 2hrs before show time, rope off the viewing area and clear out any campers

    Ok.. onto the Showpass distribution.
    The basic premise is a weighted lotto system with rolling availability. You use your ticket media or AP. The system uses two main ideas to increase fairness and avoid mobs.

    Weighting

    The premise is the more you miss out winning, the more you are weighted to win next time. The system uses time windows and keeps track of last time you won. So for instance, the system can say for each 3 hour time window, you get one chance to try to win. No duplicates in the same time window - they are thrown out. For each attempted time window you lose in, you are weighted one additional unit. The system can reset each day, or if you enable long term tracking, you can keep that weight, and even add a date component. If you haven't 'won' in the last 2 weeks, you get 5 extra units. Any time you win, your weighting is reset to zero. You could also weight people based on how much they paid for their ticket. For instance, a 5 day park hopper could be weighted higher then an AP pass, etc. (the unit weights here are just examples..)

    This weighting system does a few things

    1. prevents abuse and forces people to check only once every time window
    2. rewards people that don't win by giving them an increased chance to win next time
    3. can reward people that have not won or visited in awhile
    4. allows disney to manipulate who they want to please

    How to avoid Mobs? Rolling availability
    Instead of 'first come, first serve' the availability is released in blocks throughout the day. This means if you come up first thing, you enter the lotto and you may win a ticket, or not. If you don't, it could have been because there was a) no capacity or b) you didn't win the lotto. Either way, it's transparent to you.. you don't know. What you are told is, you can re-enter the lotto again after 3 hours.

    The process repeats itself - guests attempt to win from the current available amount of tickets. If they lose, they are instructed to come back later in the day to try again. The system automatically rolls out new blocks of tickest throughout the day - and after the hotel cut-off time, those tickets are also added to the pool.

    The rolling availability gives you

    1. The ability to difuse the 'need' to be there first thing and fight over line position
    2. The ability to expand the time window tickets are available so guests arriving later in the day still have an opportunity to see the show (big customer satisfaction point)
    3. Relaxes the urge for massive queues - just come back later - your order in line isn't the only thing that matters!
    4. The ability for someone who loses out on one block of tickets another chance to win on later blocks of tickets, and with the weighting, a better chance even


    When you combine the lotto, weighting and rolling availability.. you get a system that

    • Rewards early visitors who stay in the park all day
    • Expanded availability window
    • Diffuses mob urges
    • Defeats the need to camp
    • Given incentives to stay at Disney Hotels
    • Gives Disney ways to ensure higher paying guests get more services


    You should see the similarities to the Fastpass system. In fact there is little reason why such a model couldn't be adopted to FP later.. but no need at this time.

    Now what are the problems
    Families/Groups - How do you prevent a lotto from splitting up a group?
    TDL already addresses this in a manner - you could reuse that. Another alternative is to have guests scan all tickets before they request their lotto attempt. IE, scan 4 passes, then hit the button.
    Implementation Costs
    Most of this is software - so it can be developed. What is an issue is the actual showpass machines themselves. Normal FP could be used if you didn't use my family/group solution above which allows multiple scans per attempt. Al's comments about the FP machines and cost was a little disheartening.. which is why I said Disney should be creative here and invest. WoC capacity issues are going to be here for a LONG LONG time.
    Counterfiting.
    This will be a problem with any ticket system. Unless Disney adds verification at the ticket taking point, which slows does guest entry, they are going to have this problem with any ticket system. This is going to be a really big problem if they stick to their normal FP processes right now.
    Education
    People are ignorant about FP already that a system with more steps is a challenge. However since the majority you need to concerned about are APs... they don't have such problems knowing the system. For hotel guests, they can get briefed as they check in.
    Race Conditions with family/group ticket scanning
    If people scan multiple tickets, you have race conditions for tracking available capacity. Its no big deal because you can actually oversubscribe the # of tickets you distribute within an error of margin. See next point.
    Oversubscription - Matching Tickets to Capacity
    This isn't as big of a deal as you would think. Mainly because there isn't one guest -> one seat. Every General Admission model must account for the variables of actual capacity, no shows, and dynamic things out of your control. The solution is to allow a certain margin of oversubscription to account for no shows and race conditions, and other guest satisfaction things. It would also be possible to open up for stand-bys if there is any space left after the show is about to start.


    Now if you've gotten this far.. and are still with me, I hope you can see there are intelligent ways you can diffuse crowds, increase incentives, and increase the fairness to all guests... without just brute force methods.
    And also discussed heavily in these threads

    Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker VIII

    and back here
    http://micechat.com/forums/al-lutz-c...post1055608590

    There are really lots of variations you can pursue... from a simple lotto, to a weighted lotto, to a lotto with increasing odds throughout the day, etc.

    All of which btw... keep you in the park if you want to keep trying
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