Page 209 of 618 FirstFirst ... 109159184199206207208209210211212219234259309 ... LastLast
Results 3,121 to 3,135 of 9267
  1. #3121

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    That old dark house at the end of the dimly lit street.
    Posts
    508

    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by MANEATINGWREATH View Post
    Were they written by residents of Halloween Town or residents of the Mansion? If the residents of the Mansion wrote the scarols, then yes, I can guarantee that there are vampires lurking somewhere in the Mansion (Excluding Scary Teddy and the Vampire Bros. during HMH). You can find other scarols on YouTube as well, but none of them are as unsettling to me as "We Three Dracs."

    My belief on having Medusa, Dracula, Jack the Ripper, and other legendary ghosts buried in TDL's exit crypt is the fact that the Mansion is located in Fantasyland. That means that the Mansion is in a fantasy-based world unlike our own. It works. But that's just at TDL as far as we know. To me the American Mansions and Phantom Manor are set in the real world, despite the seemingly impossible characters and situations living inside them. To me the Mansion is an old house that just so happens to have ghosts in it (And in WDW's case, outside as well). It definitely implies that such creatures as Dracula and living mummies can exist. If ghosts can exist, then why can't monsters? There are zombies in Phantom Manor.
    .
    The HMH is very much like the new Interactive queue, no consideration to the logic of the HM, therefore should not be considered in any argument.

    I dont know why, but I totally forgot that this "overlay" takes over the DL HM nearly 1/2 of the year.

    Zombies? No. They would be in desperate attempt to feed on the flesh of the living if they were. I'm pretty sure that they are corpses animated by spirits (Much like the coffin guy). The difference between Mummies and Dracula is that Mummies exist in the real world. The one in the mansion (in my assumption) is a ghost of a mummy, since he has the glowing green/blue look.

  2. #3122

    • Inhospitable about happy
    • Offline

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    5,615

    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by SmellyOrangutan View Post
    The Burial Crypt of Famous Villains concept art (for Tokyo) was done probably at least a decade after the finished DL and WDW Haunted Mansions had been open to the public. The Haunted Mansion, as we know it, had already been existence for years.

    I'm saying that Marc Davis (definitely an authority on the HM) considered these types of creatures and characters to already exist in the Haunted Mansion's reality. Even if only previously depicted in portraits at DL and WDW. Now they would have burial crypts.

    The idea probably wasn't used because the Imagineers just wanted to take the easier route and do an exact replica of the WDW mansion.

    As for unnatural spiders, it looks like Davis also did Tokyo HM concept art for a chandelier fashioned out of a giant spider.

    See both concepts at GRD's old blog here:
    The Ghost Relations Department: 14 years later and still going strong

    I think the reason you mostly see just "regular" ghosts in the HM is because having various monsters running around would detract from the general idea of a haunted house.

    But that doesn't mean they don't exist in the same universe.

    Some of the wraiths rising from the graveyard sure don't look human.

    I'm with you on the "HM represents the real world, except ghosts are real" thing.
    I'd just extend it to the "HM represents the real world, except the supernatural is real."
    And that includes witches, vampires, gorgons, hellhounds, and even sea serpents.



    The Sinister Eleven paintings are either:
    a. Distorted by the ghosts, like you said...or
    b. They're paintings that the ghosts themselves hung up on the walls.

    Before you say that's too ridiculous, remember the library is full of ghost stories written by ghost writers. Who's to say ghosts don't get their portraits done by ghost artists?

    Also, there's this. From a voice-over by Pete Renoudet for the grand opening of the HM in '69:
    I, too, would not wish to exaggerate the difference between our two positions, which in the end is not that great. But it's a worthwhile discussion, no?

    I think Davis always thought it should be as you describe, and he still thought so when he did the Tokyo plans, but for whatever reason he didn't get his way. That giant spider light is odd, to say the least. What is that, a real, live spider? Acting as a piece of the architecture or furniture, holding up the light fixture? It looks "real," but it's hard to imagine how it could be, even in fantasy. I don't know what he was doing there, frankly.

    The wraiths in the graveyard don't look human? I'm puzzled by that argument. They sure do look like ghosts, and more humanoid than anything else. The real blobby ones are just starting to materialize, presumably.

    Notice the "family portraits" in the CoD. They're static, and they're ghastly. I figure they're like the changing portraits, except the ghosts are through messing with you at this point and have left them scary. No more puss„footin'. The point is, there is a variety of things they've done with the artwork, and I would say that the simplest explanation of the Sinister 11's is probably the best. They're just another type of manipulation. Forgive me, but suggesting that they may have been executed in their entirety by the ghosts themselves sounds a little desperate to me.

    The "ghost writers" quip is one of many such puns, of course. Since he's being tongue-in-cheek to some degree, it's hard to know how literal you're supposed to take these jests. You can conclude that all those books were indeed written by ghosts, but that's not a necessary conclusion. You could even speculate that what he possibly means is that the authors are all dead, and therefore they are now "ghost writers."

    To me, the strongest arguments for your position are (1) Davis evidently was stubbornly loyal to a similar position, and (2) we've got a crypt that seems at first blush to belong to a legendary or literary character. Davis is Davis, of course, but no single Imagineer got exactly what he wanted with the HM, and I am struck by the fact that it was only his ghosts that undeniably, indisputably survived the creative process. It seems like it takes a lot of effort to find more, and I don't see much in the fruits of such efforts that is compelling rather than merely possible.
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

    The conversation continues at Long-Forgotten, the blog.

  3. #3123

    • I'm a Lutheran
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,138

    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Has anyone considered that the Mansion might not even exist at all? "Or is it just your imagination...hmm?" Perhaps the Mansion can simply be one big nightmare-like mirage.
    Theatrical Roles: Various Roles (The Laramie Project), Fred (Oklahoma!), Oberon (Shakespeare in Hollywood), Hero (A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum), Valere (The Miser), Moonface Martin (Anything Goes), Thenardier/Laborer/Army Officer/Ensemble (Les Miserables), Franz (The Sound of Music), Tobias Ragg (Sweeney Todd), Tinman (The Wiz), Elles Dad/Winthrop/Ensemble (Legally Blonde), William Barfee/Leaf's Dad/Jesus Christ (25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee), Fiddler on the Roof (Rabbi), The Adventures of Tom Sawyer (Muff Potter/Ensemble), Shrek the Musical (Lord Farquaad)

  4. #3124

    • Member of Baxter's Army
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Haunted Mansion
    Posts
    2,389

    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by MANEATINGWREATH View Post
    Has anyone considered that the Mansion might not even exist at all? "Or is it just your imagination...hmm?" Perhaps the Mansion can simply be one big nightmare-like mirage.
    That seems to be what the new queue is suggesting.

  5. #3125

    • Inhospitable about happy
    • Offline

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    5,615

    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Here's my big problem with the Dread busts.

    I think it's evident that Carsillo is a fan of Blaine Gibson- style caricature and evidently prefers it to the more realistic style of, say, the Constance portraits. But I think he has BADLY misunderstood what Gibson was up to. None of his pirates or ghosts are supposed to look cartoony or unrealistic. It's purely a case of heavy caricature so that you can immediately read the characters, even from a distance. But if you go right up and scrutinize one of his pirates from inches away, they look slightly ridiculous, almost cartoony. When I was a kid, it never occurred to me to see the pirates as anything other than realistic human figures. Back then, I never even noticed how heavy was the caricature. They looked "normal" from the boat. Same with the ghosts.

    I think the Dread busts would look fine if they were down in the ballroom area, or behind the misty scrims of the graveyard. But you don't see them that way. You see them in broad daylight, up close, slowly, and they look cartoonish in that environment. Carsillo and company can claim with complete justice that these characters are stylistically in the Blaine Gibson tradition of caricature, but they have forgotten why Gibson adopted that style.
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

    The conversation continues at Long-Forgotten, the blog.

  6. #3126

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    752

    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    The wraiths in the graveyard don't look human? I'm puzzled by that argument. They sure do look like ghosts, and more humanoid than anything else. The real blobby ones are just starting to materialize, presumably.
    Yeah they're probably just human ghosts beginning to materialize.
    But maybe they're some kind of weird jellyfish-like ghosts, who knows?

    Vampires and gnomes, oh my
    During the 30th anniversary of the HM at Disneyland, there were some live actors playing vampires in the ride. That was a one time thing though, of course.

    Though it probably wouldn't count, one of the Haunted Mansion model kits was "Vampire's Midnight Madness."

    Also in that model kit series, Gus was referred to as a gnome (another non-human creature).

    From wikipedia:
    A gnome is a diminutive spirit in Renaissance magic and alchemy, first introduced by Paracelsus and later adopted by more recent authors including those of modern fantasy literature. Its characteristics have been reinterpreted to suit the needs of various story-tellers, but it is typically said to be a small, humanoid creature that lives underground.[2]
    However, gnomes are usually depicted as a lot smaller than Gus.
    Also, I don't think Marc Davis was depicting a gnome prisoner in particular - just a very short human.

    As for my crazy Haunted Mansion Holiday theory...

    A couple of Nightmare Before Christmas items showed up at the WDW Mansion in '07.
    There's now a NBC book in the library and a Jack snowglobe (I think) in the attic.
    My theory is that in the HM, the Nightmare Before Christmas isn't a famous Tim Burton movie but a beloved spooky bedtime story.
    In HMH, the story and characters were somehow magically brought to life within the HM for the holidays. Maybe Leota conjured them up and manifested them into existence.

    It's either something like that or I don't think it should be considered as part of the bigger picture in the HM's universe.

    Here's my big problem with the Dread busts.
    Totally agree 100%. They missed the point of Blaine Gibson's caricature-like faces, which were intended to be seen from a distance.
    I say redo them or put them in a crypt gift shop at the end, where it wouldn't be as much of an issue.
    Last edited by SmellyOrangutan; 05-02-2011 at 06:50 PM.

  7. #3127

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    752

    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Has anyone considered that the Mansion might not even exist at all? "Or is it just your imagination...hmm?" Perhaps the Mansion can simply be one big nightmare-like mirage.
    Yeah I've pondered some pretty far out stuff. Like the mansion itself being some sort of larger entity that contains all the spirits. It disguises itself as a house and has popped up in different places - New Orleans, New York, etc.

  8. #3128

    • Inhospitable about happy
    • Offline

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    5,615

    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by SmellyOrangutan View Post
    Originally one of the WDW spiders had killed a guy.
    We don't see evidence of any of the ghosts doing this.
    Seems kind of unlikely that one of the ghosts would enlarge a spider to kill people.
    That's a good point. Does anyone know if the giant spiders were there when the Man in the Web was there, or did they replace him? There are no spiders in X's concept art. But admittedly, the web orb itself is suspiciously big. In the end I don't think big spiders are that big a deal. You mentioned the giant jungle spiders of the Jungle Cruise, which are not presented as a fantasy element but a genuine species. There are real spiders with leg spans of almost a foot, so they might fall under the heading of believable exaggeration.
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

    The conversation continues at Long-Forgotten, the blog.

  9. #3129

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    752

    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    The "large glowing spiders = supernatural creatures" theme was also explored in the Haunted Mansion video game. The game features many spiders that look to be roughly the same size as those seen originally in WDW's mansion.

    The game designers took the concept even further and included spiders the size of automobiles:


  10. #3130

    • I'm a Lutheran
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,138

    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    I think some things are best left to the imagination. Did those nasty spiders kill a man? Or did the man just get caught in a large spiderweb and give up all hope. We don't know what the animatronic/dummy (More than likely a static figure) looked like in the "flesh," so perhaps he could have been wearing something similar to the Mansion butlers. Another dead butler or some unfortunate soul who got out of his Doom Buggy for a closer look at the Mansion? You decide.

    I kind of like the theory of the Mansion being a ghostly entity that can take on different appearances and travel to different areas around the world. It can possibly be an open house that goes around the earth and hosts open houses for any interested ghosts.
    Theatrical Roles: Various Roles (The Laramie Project), Fred (Oklahoma!), Oberon (Shakespeare in Hollywood), Hero (A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum), Valere (The Miser), Moonface Martin (Anything Goes), Thenardier/Laborer/Army Officer/Ensemble (Les Miserables), Franz (The Sound of Music), Tobias Ragg (Sweeney Todd), Tinman (The Wiz), Elles Dad/Winthrop/Ensemble (Legally Blonde), William Barfee/Leaf's Dad/Jesus Christ (25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee), Fiddler on the Roof (Rabbi), The Adventures of Tom Sawyer (Muff Potter/Ensemble), Shrek the Musical (Lord Farquaad)

  11. #3131

    • Inhospitable about happy
    • Offline

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    5,615

    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by SmellyOrangutan View Post
    The "large glowing spiders = supernatural creatures" theme was also explored in the Haunted Mansion video game. The game features many spiders that look to be roughly the same size as those seen originally in WDW's mansion.
    That's all fun, but I'm sure you would be quick to admit that things like HM video games, loosely-based HM model kits, and one-off CM costumes for anniversary gags can't carry much weight.
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

    The conversation continues at Long-Forgotten, the blog.

  12. #3132

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    752

    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    That's all fun, but I'm sure you would be quick to admit that things like HM video games, Loosely-based HM model kits, and one-off CM costumes for anniversary gags can't carry much weight.
    Of course. But it shows I'm not alone in this particular viewpoint/interpretation.

    I posted this a couple pages back:
    Going back to GdT's movie (and speaking of the "world" of the Haunted Mansion), an article just came out featuring Disney Studios' president of production Sean Bailey.
    Bailey: 'Our job is to build worlds' - Entertainment News, Film News, Media - Variety
    No new info on the movie, but it sounds like it's definitely happening.
    It seems the article's been edited a bit since I first read it.
    Previously mentioned in the article were the new Oz, Muppets, Haunted Mansion, and 20K Leagues movies. Just in case anyone read that wondering what I was talking about.

  13. #3133

    • I'm a Lutheran
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,138

    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Just a few things I thought that I'd like to point out about the "new" (2007 is still pretty new) vocals in WDW's Graveyard.

    To begin with since all of the vocals have been replaced (Except the singing busts, mummy, and old man), a few new things have been added on purpose or by mistake. At the end of her solo, the Duchess shouts "SCREAM" and can be heard muttering "sugar" seconds after. What the? She is at a tea party of some kind, so perhaps she wants some more sugar for her tea? The awesome blog "Strange and Frightening Sounds" mentions that perhaps the voice actress said "sugar" as if she messed up with a line or something, an easy alternative to other words of anger that start with an "s."

    Another thing new is the fact that the Executioner says "they begin to terrorize" instead of "they pretend to terrorize." Mistake?
    Theatrical Roles: Various Roles (The Laramie Project), Fred (Oklahoma!), Oberon (Shakespeare in Hollywood), Hero (A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum), Valere (The Miser), Moonface Martin (Anything Goes), Thenardier/Laborer/Army Officer/Ensemble (Les Miserables), Franz (The Sound of Music), Tobias Ragg (Sweeney Todd), Tinman (The Wiz), Elles Dad/Winthrop/Ensemble (Legally Blonde), William Barfee/Leaf's Dad/Jesus Christ (25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee), Fiddler on the Roof (Rabbi), The Adventures of Tom Sawyer (Muff Potter/Ensemble), Shrek the Musical (Lord Farquaad)

  14. #3134

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    752

    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    At the end of her solo, the Duchess shouts "SCREAM" and can be heard muttering "sugar" seconds after. What the? She is at a tea party of some kind, so perhaps she wants some more sugar for her tea? The awesome blog "Strange and Frightening Sounds" mentions that perhaps the voice actress said "sugar" as if she messed up with a line or something, an easy alternative to other words of anger that start with an "s."
    I believe she says "Scream or sugar" like "Cream or sugar." It's kinda dumb.

    Looking back...
    with that overly "Disney-sounding," cutesy new voice they gave her, it kind of foreshadowed the arrival of Prudence Pock and her ilk.

    Another thing new is the fact that the Executioner says "they begin to terrorize" instead of "they pretend to terrorize." Mistake?
    Yep. You'd think someone would have noticed that before putting it in.

    The awesome blog "Strange and Frightening Sounds"
    That kid's actually doing his own (low-budget) HM film, basing it on the "Story and Song" album -
    http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/A-N...16640358417793
    Last edited by SmellyOrangutan; 05-02-2011 at 09:42 PM.

  15. #3135

    • Larger Than (After)Life
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    A Dusty Attic
    Posts
    1,824

    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by MANEATINGWREATH View Post
    Hatbox Ghost, you mentioned that you want to wipe out the WDW HM from your mind completely? What if they bring you back there before they bring you back to DL?
    I'd be afraid of what I'd look and sound like -- and where they'd stick me.

    I'd rather never come back than be part of that -- UGH -- queue.

LinkBacks (?)

  1. 11-02-2010, 03:59 PM
  2. 06-30-2010, 05:00 AM

Similar Threads

  1. [Chat] Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect vs The Army of Darkness, or the Thread 5
    By CaitlinMcFly in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 2077
    Last Post: 10-08-2009, 02:45 AM
  2. Replies: 2011
    Last Post: 01-12-2009, 09:50 PM
  3. Replies: 2544
    Last Post: 05-07-2008, 06:39 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •