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  1. #3241

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Outta curiosity, does anyone have pictures of/information on the rope net mentioned below?

    Haunted Mansion cast member Shawn Potts recalls a secondary use for the Seance Circle set: "As the Haunted Mansion is built in the sense of a movie set, they only build what's necessary. There's a 15 foot drop between your Doom Buggy and Leota's table. They added a rope net one year. You've probably heard why." (Ed. note: an errant guest once left his Doom Buggy in an attempt to reach Leota's table and fell, not realizing that there was no floor between the Doom Buggy track and the seance table.)

    "The area under Seance Circle is also used for storage for props and spare animatronics from other attractions. When I was around, a Wendy figure from Peter Pan's Flight was down there as well as spare crocodiles from the train track."
    Pictured above right is a detail from the area above the Seance Circle, demonstrating a few of the many objects that Leota has summoned via her supplications.


  2. #3242

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    ghost host = organist?
    mind = blown
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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    The books are props in a staged presentation. In a staged presentation, anything that the viewer cannot possibly see is "offstage" and doesn't exist.

    Does anyone know whether any of the attic glassware is in an exclusively 20th c. design?
    It's the color that makes the glassware very 20th Century. Most of what's in the attic shot is a reproduction of an Adams Glass Co. late 19th Century pattern, based on a Colonial pattern. It's known as King's Crown Ruby Thumbprint, and was made by Indiana Glass from the 1950s to at least the 1980s. The Ruby-edged crystal version is the Ballroom glassware (possibly mixed with Ruby Diamond Point, also by Indiana Glass). The milk glass versions appeared at the height of the Early American decorating craze of the late 1950s through the 1970s. Mixed in are some milk glass pieces made by Jeanette Glass starting in about 1957.

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    If it isn't possible to tell for sure from the rider's POV whether that attic lamp is electric or kerosene without a flash photo, then it doesn't count either. It's a stage prop. It's in the "old-fashioned" style of earlier, kerosene lamps, like many table lamps are. That goes for any other piece of incidental junk in the attic. If you can't see it without a flash, it doesn't count.
    I guess that would mean that the Edison Diamond Disc phonograph (1911 - 1929) counts, as it is front-and-center in one of the attic scenes (WDW, I think), and is visible under show lighting conditions. As a phonograph collector, I recognized it instantly in ride-through videos. It used to still have its front grille fretwork, and torn grille cloth, but both disappeared over the years.

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    I'm not following the logic of this Leota theory. She's 20th century, and therefore she insists on using a 20th c. light, except that she makes it flicker? I don't get it. Also, I've never seen the white globe before. Was it always there, or is it a HMH thing? Also also, I don't know enough about Tiffany-style lamp shades to pinpoint dates.

    Of course, the vulnerable point in using electricity as evidence that the place must have been occupied during the 20th c. (and I don't think anyone here has pushed precisely that argument) is that rich people were electrifying their houses already in the latter 19th c. Conceivably, George or Constance had at least the séance room wired with that new-fangled electricity thing, perhaps an indicator of the importance they assigned to that room and its activities.

    No matter how you slice it, I think you have to conclude that the Tiffany lamp is an error by WED. You just have to decide what the error is. Either (1) they assumed Tiffany lamps like that could be kerosene, or (2) they made what was always intended to be an electric lamp flicker like a flame. It's a judgment call, and obviously we're disagreeing as to which of the two is more likely, but right now I favor the first as a more plausible error.
    Perhaps Madame Leota brought it with her...?

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    I don't understand why some are saying the Leota stone looks more modern than the others. I never picked up that notion. It's certainly in a different style than the others, and it's much more formal and expensive, but what is there in its style that dates it later than the others?
    It looks like a style popular from the late 19th Century through the 1920s. The height of this style was really big between 1900-1915 or thereabouts, and the bust looks Art Nouveau in style, which also fits that time period. It also looks practically brand-new in comparison to the others (of the original WDW set). Those show a lot more age, and look late 18th Century in style, or maybe early 19th - at least to me. Sort of a hybrid style for the older stones is probably more accurate.
    Last edited by Grinning Ghost; 05-06-2011 at 06:14 AM.

  4. #3244

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Interesting theory about the Ghost Host being the Organist. They don't wear the same clothes, but they both have musical talents, and a similar face, sans the giant eyeball. I suppose a ghost doesn't have to look like the way they did when they died. If the Ghost Host is the organist and the piano player at WDW and TDL, is he also the phantom pianist in the Attic?
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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by MANEATINGWREATH View Post
    Interesting theory about the Ghost Host being the Organist. They don't wear the same clothes, but they both have musical talents, and a similar face, sans the giant eyeball. I suppose a ghost doesn't have to look like the way they did when they died. If the Ghost Host is the organist and the piano player at WDW and TDL, is he also the phantom pianist in the Attic?
    Well, in a backstage video from the 90s, Tony Baxter seems to think Master Gracey = Ghost Host = Shadow Piano Player. He never mentioned the organist or other musicians. However, he did preface the video with the fact that he's not an expert on The Haunted Mansion (lots of inaccuracies in that video).

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Ghost View Post
    It's the color that makes the glassware very 20th Century. Most of what's in the attic shot is a reproduction of an Adams Glass Co. late 19th Century pattern, based on a Colonial pattern. It's known as King's Crown Ruby Thumbprint, and was made by Indiana Glass from the 1950s to at least the 1980s. The Ruby-edged crystal version is the Ballroom glassware (possibly mixed with Ruby Diamond Point, also by Indiana Glass). The milk glass versions appeared at the height of the Early American decorating craze of the late 1950s through the 1970s. Mixed in are some milk glass pieces made by Jeanette Glass starting in about 1957.
    If you are right on all counts here, you've just destroyed the theory that the dates of attic items determine how long the house was occupied. That glassware is part of Constance's wedding gifts from her first marriage in 1869. If some of it really is in a style that didn't appear until 1957, then obviously such manufacture dates are meaningless.

    I guess that would mean that the Edison Diamond Disc phonograph (1911 - 1929) counts, as it is front-and-center in one of the attic scenes (WDW, I think), and is visible under show lighting conditions. As a phonograph collector, I recognized it instantly in ride-through videos. It used to still have its front grille fretwork, and torn grille cloth, but both disappeared over the years.
    I've never been to WDW so I can't comment on the appearance and location or the Edison phonograph, or confirm whether it's still there. It's possible an Imagineer thought it was older than it is. I think your expertise in this area may go well beyond anything they anticipated.

    Perhaps Madame Leota brought it with her...?
    ...because _____ (insert something in the blank from ghost or divination lore—real or imagined—that would make this a reasonable expectation. That's my problem with this conjecture).

    It looks like a style popular from the late 19th Century through the 1920s. The height of this style was really big between 1900-1915 or thereabouts, and the bust looks Art Nouveau in style, which also fits that time period. It also looks practically brand-new in comparison to the others (of the original WDW set). Those show a lot more age, and look late 18th Century in style, or maybe early 19th - at least to me. Sort of a hybrid style for the older stones is probably more accurate.
    It's possible I'm missing something, but I don't see anything distinctly Art Nouveau about Leota's tombstone in general or her portrait sculpture in particular. To me it looks pretty stark and plain for AN, actually. The bottom line here is that "Leota came later because her tomb is newer" is unpersuasive to anyone who isn't already persuaded. I can see where it might indicate that she or those who wished to honor her memory had more money.
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  7. #3247

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by RegionsBeyond View Post
    Somewhat related, over on the "ghost stories" thread, a few people mention late at night having an experience of hearing 'running feet' come up behind them just before the doom buggy loading, I.E., near the changing busts, as if someone was coming down the portrait hall, and no one being there. Given I tend to look for normal explanations first....does anyone think this could be a deliberate, programmed sound effect on a delay implemented at some point, like the use of the candle in the outdoor windows?
    Wouldn't surprise me if they did have a footsteps effect, or that it is people walking on the break room area (isn't it close?).

    Thanks for the pretty pictures of the antique lamps!
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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    An unexplained noise was caught on an audio tape recording from a 1976 DL HM ride-thru:

    Listen closely...

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Ugh.

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    On the ghost story things.

    The corner in the actual load area that MrHBG describes is directly underneath the train tracks. Possibly some vibrations came through?

    The other corner, near the follow-you busts, is more mysterious. Here are two blueprints of the area, one current (left, hat tip Datameister) and one older one (right). They redid the chicken exit ramps several years ago. The spot everyone seems to be talking about where they heard footsteps behind them is about where the green spot is. The pink shows where Mansion personnel can go (on the right) and the chicken exit halls are (on the left). The blue spot is so you can get your bearings and match the photo to the blueprints. I don't know if that's good enough to debunk anything.



    There's nothing below the floor but cement at that point.

    Just FWIW, that green spot happens to be the most magical spot in the HM to me, and as it turns out, to Guillermo del Toro also. For me, best spot in all of DL, matter of fact.
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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Ghost View Post
    It looks like a style popular from the late 19th Century through the 1920s. The height of this style was really big between 1900-1915 or thereabouts, and the bust looks Art Nouveau in style, which also fits that time period. It also looks practically brand-new in comparison to the others (of the original WDW set). Those show a lot more age, and look late 18th Century in style, or maybe early 19th - at least to me. Sort of a hybrid style for the older stones is probably more accurate.
    I don't see anything that that would directly relate Leota's bust as Art Nouveau.
    Her tombstone doesn't look new either, it is just about as weathered as all the others



    I have never noticed the phonograph, and I rode the HM almost 40 times in a row in 2009. I'll take a look though some of my flash pictures.

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterGracey13 View Post
    I have never noticed the phonograph, and I rode the HM almost 40 times in a row in 2009. I'll take a look though some of my flash pictures.
    If you have any attic photos those would be good for my occasional WDW Attic Prop before/after photo montages I enjoy doing so much especially now that hm.info is back up.
    Last edited by HMF; 05-06-2011 at 04:38 PM.

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterGracey13 View Post
    I don't see anything that that would directly relate Leota's bust as Art Nouveau.
    Her tombstone doesn't look new either, it is just about as weathered as all the others

    It makes me sad and mad to look at it now. Even on the most positive possible reading of the new queue, it should be brutally obvious to anyone with even two functioning brain cells that the Leota tombstone effect has been ruined. They should take it out. Seriously, send it to DL, or relocate it. Somewhere in the exit area wouldn't be so bad. It would be sort of a way of winding things down after the frenzied mirror gag. It would serve a function similar to what Little Leota does at DL.
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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterGracey13 View Post
    I don't see anything that that would directly relate Leota's bust as Art Nouveau.
    Her tombstone doesn't look new either, it is just about as weathered as all the others

    The hairstyle, and overall look suggests that sort of "Greek Revival" look many women were wearing at the turn of the 20th Century, which falls into the Art Nouveau time frame. It looks just like other busts and statues of that era. Makes me think of "Black Aggie", a statue in a graveyard installed around 1920 (now in Washington, D.C.)


    Quote Originally Posted by MasterGracey13 View Post
    I have never noticed the phonograph, and I rode the HM almost 40 times in a row in 2009. I'll take a look though some of my flash pictures.
    I know it's on the left-hand side of the Attic. At one point, it was back in the corner where Connie is now - turned sideways and facing the oncoming Doombuggies. Then later it was moved to a spot closer to the entrance of the Attic, directly next to the Doombuggy track. Naturally, I can't find any of the attic photos I saw the other day that showed it.

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    The lines and curves are much too conservative and plain for Art Nouveau. That single grooved line along the edge, unrelieved except at the bottom, and passing up and around the top and down without anything in the corners. Such Spartan minimalism. Just ain't AN.
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