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  1. #316

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    Look at page 78 in in the 2003 edition. And yes, I think HBG is in front of the bass. Why would there be an invisible bass fiddle in the attic? Note that the picture frame is not visible through the bass. HBG's "glowing edge" is semi-transparent elsewhere, like between the vertical side of his hat and the birdcage, and also the edge of his cloak next to his cane where it crosses the baseboard.
    Well, with his hat, it's obvious that he is in front of the bird cage. But with the bass fiddle, it appears as if he is behind it, because the outline edge of the fiddle is clearly in front of the glowing edge, and it should not be. Colin Campbell made an artistic error with the edge of the bass fiddle showing very noticeably in front of the glowing edge of Hattie. That is what I am saying gives the illusion that the fiddle is transparent (not invisible!). That outline should have been obscured by the glowing edge of Hattie's cloak, just as his hat obscures the birdcage. The glowing edge should be on top of the outline, not under it.

    --

    As far as the Surrell book - oh well, I don't remember those images. Haven't dug it out in a few years, even though it's just six inches above my computer! I'd have to empty out a cabinet to get to it at the bottom of the pile of stuff in there, and we wouldn't want that to happen, now would we!

  2. #317

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    IMO, you may be pressing Campbell's loose, painterly style for more precision and consistency than it aspires to. It looks like he may have physically put down a brush stroke or two for the bass trim on top of the "glowing edge," but I doubt that he had any intention of making it look like the bass was in front of that edge, and personally, I have no trouble reading the glowing edge as being in front of the bass, even as the thing now stands. I wouldn't call it a mistake or an error, just a slightly less convincing depiction of semi-transparency than he usually achieves.
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

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  3. #318

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    IMO, you may be pressing Campbell's loose, painterly style for more precision and consistency than it aspires to. It looks like he may have physically put down a brush stroke or two for the bass trim on top of the "glowing edge," but I doubt that he had any intention of making it look like the bass was in front of that edge, and personally, I have no trouble reading the glowing edge as being in front of the bass, even as the thing now stands. I wouldn't call it a mistake or an error, just a slightly less convincing depiction of semi-transparency than he usually achieves.
    Funny - to me it always looked like the bass was see-through. I've been curious about it for 35 years now, and it always made me wonder.

    Here is the original, where it appears to me that the bass is in front of Hattie:



    And here it is corrected, putting Hattie in front of the bass, as it should have appeared:


    Now it looks right, with the trunk in the foreground, Hattie in the middle, and the bass in the background behind him. Can you see the difference now?

  4. #319

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Ghost View Post
    Funny - to me it always looked like the bass was see-through. I've been curious about it for 35 years now, and it always made me wonder.

    Here is the original, where it appears to me that the bass is in front of Hattie:



    And here it is corrected, putting Hattie in front of the bass, as it should have appeared:


    Now it looks right, with the trunk in the foreground, Hattie in the middle, and the bass in the background behind him. Can you see the difference now?
    Sure, I can see the difference. I just don't think it matters. It's never occurred to me to think the bass is (semi)transparent and HBG is behind it. You could go through Campbell's artwork with a microscope and find any number of such boo-boo's. Unlike you, I don't think this one looks funny. It's too normal-looking within a depiction of semi-transparency. What does irk me is the terrible job of showing the moonlit shadow of the shudder on the wall over by the window. Utterly unconvincing and contrary to any optical logic. Then there's the half-hearted overpainting of an unwanted or misplaced bottle. CC was doing an illustration for a kid's record, not the Sistine Chapel, and ironically (to us HBG fanatics), this particular painting is one of the most flawed. I really like his work, but I try not to ask more from it than is fair.
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

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  5. #320

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    Sure, I can see the difference. I just don't think it matters. It's never occurred to me to think the bass is (semi)transparent and HBG is behind it. You could go through Campbell's artwork with a microscope and find any number of such boo-boo's. Unlike you, I don't think this one looks funny. It's too normal-looking within a depiction of semi-transparency. What does irk me is the terrible job of showing the moonlit shadow of the shudder on the wall over by the window. Utterly unconvincing and contrary to any optical logic. Then there's the half-hearted overpainting of an unwanted or misplaced bottle. CC was doing an illustration for a kid's record, not the Sistine Chapel, and ironically (to us HBG fanatics), this particular painting is one of the most flawed. I really like his work, but I try not to ask more from it than is fair.
    I never paid much attention to the shutters in the background. They weren't the main subject of the painting, and that never stood out like a sore thumb to me like the bass does. That one tiny detail always threw off the perspective as to whether Hattie was in front of it or behind it. I never noticed the painted-out bottle either until you pointed it out a while back. I only saw it as an unexplained pink stain on Hattie's foot, with no definitive shape coming to mind. Only when I saw the full painting could I tell that it was a bottle, because the bottom of it is still showing in the original, but cropped out of the frame in the album print. Initially, I had always thought the pink stain was a printing flaw on my copy, until I saw it on other copies as well.

    As to the shutters, the shadow is probably that of the other shutter that is out of the frame, but regardless of which one is supposed to be casting the shadow, the angle is all wrong. Again, something I never noticed because it wasn't the main subject.

  6. #321

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    This whole conversation must be excruciatingly tedious to all but the most hardcore Threadsters, but in the end it does provide a valuable illustration of the subjective element in evaluating artwork. The shutter shadow that makes me shudder has cast a shadow over this painting with me from day one. I've actually been embarrassed for good ol' Collin and wondered how he could have let something that bad go out. As for the bass-and-cloak scandal...never even noticed it before, and even now, with my lapels grabbed and my nose pushed against it, it still looks okay—or okay enough—for me.

    So here I run into another viewer of comparable vintage and with comparable affection for this artistic artifact, but with his "Looks okay...never really paid attention" on the one hand and his "What a train wreck!" on the other totally reversed from mine.

    Ghost to show ya.
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

    The conversation continues at Long-Forgotten, the blog.

  7. #322

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    This whole conversation must be excruciatingly tedious to all but the most hardcore Threadsters, but in the end it does provide a valuable illustration of the subjective element in evaluating artwork. The shutter shadow that makes me shudder has cast a shadow over this painting with me from day one. I've actually been embarrassed for good ol' Collin and wondered how he could have let something that bad go out. As for the bass-and-cloak scandal...never even noticed it before, and even now, with my lapels grabbed and my nose pushed against it, it still looks okay—or okay enough—for me.

    So here I run into another viewer of comparable vintage and with comparable affection for this artistic artifact, but with his "Looks okay...never really paid attention" on the one hand and his "What a train wreck!" on the other totally reversed from mine.

    Ghost to show ya.
    LOL! Good point! We both have issues with the same artwork, but on totally opposite sides of the same painting. Ghost to show ya indeed!

  8. #323

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    The tragedy, of course, is that there's no realistic chance that I can get you to see the error of your ways and change your mind at this late stage of the game. I tell you, it's a lonely life, being the last sane person on the planet. Still, I shall continue to carry the torch forward, shedding its benevolent beams on all who draw near...
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

    The conversation continues at Long-Forgotten, the blog.

  9. #324

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    I made a custom Hatbox Ghost head! I posted this over at Doombuggies' forums, but figured people here might enjoy it too. Plus, I'm really happy with how it turned out! I was able to use a cast from an Ezra head since he and HB use the same sculpt (don't worry, it wasn't an original!!) and painted it up. Next thing to work on is his collar


    Click here to see it bigger

  10. #325

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain EO View Post
    I made a custom Hatbox Ghost head! I posted this over at Doombuggies' forums, but figured people here might enjoy it too. Plus, I'm really happy with how it turned out! I was able to use a cast from an Ezra head since he and HB use the same sculpt (don't worry, it wasn't an original!!) and painted it up. Next thing to work on is his collar


    Click here to see it bigger

    That's pretty cool! Good job

  11. #326

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Good work on the Hatbox sculpt there, I dig it...any plans for the head once completed? Halloween decor/display, perhaps, or just to leave about in hidden places to frighten family members....?

  12. #327

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    My only problem for making my two HB heads is finding a good skull as a base. The wigs should be fairly simple to attain, and I do have some ideas lurking about. Maybe I will have to post my concept art.

  13. #328

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    A couple of VERY DEFINITELY "Long-Forgotten"-type items this evening, gang.

    First, an aerial photo from November 1964 that I hadn't seen before:



    Items of interest, especially to some of you (looks at Data): What is that structure on (our) left, beside the HM? Also, note the nice walkway on the far right leading up to our mystery structure, which appears to have some kind of covering at this point. I still suspect that this large garden structure with the high walls was a convenient parking place for unsightly heavy equipment, dirt piles on this side of the berm, etc., but with that nice walkway going up to it and the nice brickwork, I'm suspecting more and more that this was indeed earmarked as the site for the Museum of the Weird.

    Second, our member-in-exile TheHatboxGhost noticed an item on E-bay, a 19th c. leather hatbox with top hat.







    So what? Well, it's never occurred to me before, but the specific style of hatbox carried by the Hatbox Ghost is for a men's top hat such as he himself is wearing. In other words, it's the box for his hat. The fact that his head disappears, leaving the hat behind, and appears in the hatbox, is a little ironic, you see? Whoops, wrong item is going into the box here. I had always thought it was a pretty generic hatbox, but as you can see from these photos, it's not.

    Learn something new every day. Only at the Thread, friend, only at the Thread.
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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    Items of interest, especially to some of you (looks at Data): What is that structure on (our) left, beside the HM?
    You know me too well. I'm gonna venture an educated guess that this was just a smaller version of the current west boiler/chiller plant. In fact, looking at other photos, I'm pretty sure that's what it was. By the 70s or so, it'd taken a form pretty similar to how it is now - in fact, the additions might have even been made around when HM opened, but I'm having a hard time narrowing down the date.


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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Boiler-chiller plant? Shoot, I was hoping for something a little more...I dunno...numinous.

    Two more very lovely goodies for tonight. First, some of you haven't gotten your cyber-mitts on a nice, big, clean version of my HBG avatar photo, so here y'go.



    For an even bigger version, go here.

    Second, if you're a Snow White fan you really need to check out this fantastic new-ish blog, Filmic Light: A Snow White Sanctum. An item of particular interest is a photo of what purports to be the only surviving artifact from the original SW ride in the old Fantasyland of DL. You can read about it here, and see a large version with the perspective and foreshortening distortions corrected, here.




    Who loves ya, baby?
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

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