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  1. #3481

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    When you review a movie, it's perfectly fair game to say, "What was Spielberg thinking? He blew it." Carsillo is the Art Director and Show Designer for these additions. He seems like a very nice guy, and his motives were good, but he is the man responsible for ruining one of the Haunted Mansions (that is still my opinion; I know others take a softer view). In a discussion forum dedicated to the Haunted Mansions, that qualifies as a big deal. Smelly has just today pointed out another example of sheer stupidity in this thing, and it's not a bad thing but a good thing to take full note of it and not just let it go. This must not be allowed to happen to Anaheim. If the fans quietly accept what happened in WDW, just let it go, it increases the chances that it could.
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  2. #3482

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    When you review a movie, it's perfectly fair game to say, "What was Spielberg thinking? He blew it." Carsillo is the Art Director and Show Designer for these additions. He seems like a very nice guy, and his motives were good, but he is the man responsible for ruining one of the Haunted Mansions (that is still my opinion; I know others take a softer view). In a discussion forum dedicated to the Haunted Mansions, that qualifies as a big deal. Smelly has just today pointed out another example of sheer stupidity in this thing, and it's not a bad thing but a good thing to take full note of it and not just let it go. This must not be allowed to happen to Anaheim. If the fans quietly accept what happened in WDW, just let it go, it increases the chances that it could.
    But calling him Osama Bin Laden is beyond the pale. Not only is it insulting, but it's also hyperbole that diminishes both Carsillo and the horror and evil that was Osama Bin Laden. Not to mention that now that Bin Laden has been killed violently, comparing Carsillo to him could be construed as a threat. You've made your point. You don't like it. Harping on it is unnecessary and diminishes all of us. I'm going to take my leave of this thread now and maybe I'll come back later when it's less disgusting and horrifying.
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  3. #3483

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    In defense of HBG2, I understand his frustration. He runs what is, no doubt, one of the most insightful blogs on the web, a blog devoted entirely to The Haunted Mansion. There is NOTHING about his writing that is unprofessional. He's as adept at what he does as any journalist -- if not moreso. He wanted to interview Carsillo for his blog. And, mind you, it is Carsillo himself who proudly takes credit for the queue design. And, as far as I know, it is Carsillo who cut off communication abruptly, after he, no doubt, saw the problems with his design that were being pointed out in various forums. Why? I have no idea. One can only assume that he does not wish to address these issues directly. In my communication with him, he did not recognize them as problems. He seems to see HBG2, me and others who dislike the queue as merely having strong differences of opinion. Continuity, presentation and structure do not seem to concern him at all.

    So, naturally, HBG2 makes reference to Carsillo. He is the one who's taken credit for the queue and he is now no longer replying. Is he obligated to? Of course not. But being how HBG2 has been nothing but professional, the queue's designer could, at least, extend the same courtesy. HBG2's good-natured barbs are out of frustration, but humor is subjective. What some find funny, others may find offensive. At times, it's hard to not feel like it's us against them. What was once a family business run by a man with vision and passion is now owned by a major corporation and controlled by boards, departments, shareholders and VPs. All we want is to not see these national treasures ruined by a faceless entity. And America's Disney parks are national treasures.





  4. #3484

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by RegionsBeyond View Post
    New queue = bad. 100 percent agree, and you can see...there were conceptual issues inherent from the start, even from how they thought about what to add and the tone and lack of foresight in how well it would fit the Mansion.

    That being said, the name-calling of specific people does get tiresome...just my opinion. I am not even saying, stop pointing out the queue is bad..it is. And I like and respect the posters in this thread....saying product is bad and badly conceived is one thing, the personal name-calling shtick is another to me. Too bad this thread has to get mired down in the kind of us-vs-them stuff between members too, which plagues the rest of MiceChat...*shrug*
    Good post.

    I don't think it's necessarily out of line to criticize by name, however. When you review a movie, it's fair game to say, "What was Spielberg thinking? He blew it!" Mr. Carsillo seems like a very nice guy, and his motives were good, but he is the Art Director and Show Designer for this wave of WDW additions. He is the man responsible for ruining one of the Haunted Mansions (that is still my honest opinion; I know others take a softer view). Smelly has just today pointed out another glaring example of sheer stupidity in PLQ, and it isn't a bad thing but a good thing to take full note of it. As I keep saying, this must not be allowed to happen to Anaheim. If the fans quietly move on and fail to express appropriate outrage when these things are noticed, it only increases the chances that it all could come to Disneyland in some form. If some of my satire seems to cross a line, I apologize for that.

    [edit: oops, double post, sorta. I thought the other was lost and essentially rewrote it].
    Last edited by HBG2; 05-17-2011 at 05:14 PM.
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  5. #3485

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    And, YES, the exterior of WDW's Haunted Mansion attraction has been RUINED by the queue. NO real Haunted House in the universe that Walt Disney created for that attraction would EVER have such a thing standing outside in front of it -- EVER!





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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by TheHatboxGhost View Post
    And, YES, the exterior of WDW's Haunted Mansion attraction has been RUINED by the queue. NO real Haunted House in the universe that Walt Disney created for that attraction would EVER have such a thing standing outside in front of it -- EVER!
    Uh, Marc Davis and Claude Coates created that universe, Walt did indirectly but you could say that anything that happened after his death was indirectly created by Walt.

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by BassBone View Post
    But calling him Osama Bin Laden is beyond the pale. Not only is it insulting, but it's also hyperbole that diminishes both Carsillo and the horror and evil that was Osama Bin Laden. Not to mention that now that Bin Laden has been killed violently, comparing Carsillo to him could be construed as a threat. You've made your point. You don't like it. Harping on it is unnecessary and diminishes all of us. I'm going to take my leave of this thread now and maybe I'll come back later when it's less disgusting and horrifying.
    I totally agree. I did that once, way back there (OBL tagging, that is), and I later apologized to him and to all of you for having done so. I apologize again. Shouldn't have done it, period.
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HMF View Post
    Uh, Marc Davis and Claude Coates created that universe, Walt did indirectly but you could say that anything that happened after his death was indirectly created by Walt.
    Bottom line, it doesn't fit.





  9. #3489

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by TheHatboxGhost View Post
    Bottom line, it doesn't fit.
    That we agree on.

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    Shouldn't have done it, period.
    This time, you didn't. HMF did. And it was a joke. In poor taste (like the queue) but a joke, nonetheless.

    Let's move on.





  11. #3491

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Ghost View Post
    It's supposed to be a haunted house, not a haunted playground. . . .

    The new queue is the mustache on the Mona Lisa. Fun, but totally disrespectful to a classic that needed no enhancements.
    I completely agree. The Haunted Mansion in Florida just jumped the shark. They took a creepy old haunted house in a isolated corner of a musty old river and made it a playground for kids. Perhaps they should just reclassify the ride as being in Fantasyland.

    It is too bad that the Mansion isn't being lovingly tended by Imagineers who actually understand what the ride is about and care about its lore and history. No, they are just implementing the new corporate dream of interactive queues by hook or crook. Never mind what the ride is really about, just keep your job safe by helping spend those billions of dollars earmarked for the new corporate project.

    I suppose that soon we'll all be climbing pirate sails and bilge pumping water out of pits in the Pirate's queue as well.

    There are a few Imagineers who need to learn to say NO and some executives in Florida who need a swift kick in the ***.
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  12. #3492

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    And again, in fairness, I'll repeat what I said in another post. I'm told by someone who knows a lot about how these things operate that it is very possible that Carsillo has been instructed by his bosses not to further communicate with me and perhaps with some others, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and not put down the lack of further contact to aloofness or some other unworthy motive, and I would encourage others to take the same attitude. We don't know what we don't know.

    If you look back through the thousands of posts, yes, there have been a couple of tense moments before around here, but the Thread has been remarkably self-correcting and trouble-free over the years (still sounds so weird to say that!). I love and respect you guys, especially the long-timers, and it grieves me that some have been so unhappy with recent forays that they have to pull away for a time (and hopefully only for a time). I can understand it, I guess. About all I can say from my end is that I feel badly about it, don't feel upset with anyone, and hope that we continue to have good things to discuss as well as the not-so-good.
    Last edited by HBG2; 05-17-2011 at 06:02 PM.
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  13. #3493

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    I fell as though I owe HBG2 a huge apology for bringing this analogy back from the dead. Recent events have obviously been on my mind and i came up with the "Carsillo Compound" joke based on the earlier analogy by HBG2 . It was in poor taste and I apologize to HBG2, Pete Carsillo and anyone else offended.

  14. #3494

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Nothing is intended as personal. However, works of public entertainment are subject to public scrutiny and criticism, along with the producers of those works. In the parks' early years and heyday, Walt Disney, WED and the original Imagineers set standards of excellence. And I, for one, feel that those standards should be upheld. In fact, not only upheld, but guarded and cherished. Unfortunately, I simply do not see those work ethics, nor the previously established attention to detail, in the majority of what is being produced and presented now as "upgrades" to the classic Haunted Mansion attraction.

    It's TRAGIC.





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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Let's just say that WDW Haunted Mansion's outdoor interactive queue is Horrendous! It doesn't fit and it doesn't belong there. The queue line makes the Haunted Mansion no longer ominous, atmospheric, and abandoned.

    Come on, everybody!! Off to Neverland!

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