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  1. #3991

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterGracey13 View Post
    There is no vanilla smell in WDW.

    The CGI ghosts are really beginning to bother me. I had read a comment on HBG2's latest blog post that said that the new HHGs don't feel 'magical'. I believe that this person was right. They don't. They feel technological. Instead of the 'wow, this is a real ghost sitting next to me' feel, you get 'Thats a cool projection, I wonder how they were able to switch my head'. It makes the HM feel as if it is a cartoon world (VERY Hannah Barbera). I may be going against the almighty HBG2 here, but I don't think that the lonesome ghosts fit into the mansion. They are cartoons, and participate is very cartoon-like antics. I won't argue that the HHGs are at the point when they are "used to you" and can be comfortable playing some pranks, but the way it is executed makes it just feel, well, unreal (balloon head.. nuff said).

    This may, and probably is, just me, but I have always felt that as soon as you entered the crypt Madame Leota's 'spell' has begun to wear off. This would result in the guest no longer being able to see the HHG physically right next to him/her, but rather, in the mirror (which would be reminiscent to many reported ghost sightings).



    Yes! I think you hit the nail right on the head.
    I totally respect all of this. Having only seen the effect on three or four fuzzy videos, I can't get a reliable feel for it from where I'm sitting. Unfortunately, reports are all over the map on this one. Very definitely they need to improve the performance. Even on the videos, some of the gags are, shall we say, inexact.

    Even the Lonesome Ghost thing is tentative. I think (1) that's definitely the chemistry they were shooting for, and I think (2) they've got a very defensible position in justifying the attempt. But whether the thing clicks, whether it has the magic, whether it all comes together and works at the end of the dayóthose are the things artists and performers can only cross their fingers and hope happens, however sound the theory or careful the execution. No guarantees. That's why I pay a lot of attention to feedback from people who are there, who see it, especially the sane and sensitive Mansion lovers whose voices I respect already.

    I've already gone from a pretty positive view to an increasingly negative one, based on what I keep seeing and hearing. I honestly hate being Dr. No all the time, and I hoped I could find something to praise from these guys (remember, Carsillo sincerely means well), but it just isn't looking good for this one either. They had to go a long, long way to justify the removal of a classic Yale Gracey trick, and they've barely even gotten out of the starting gate yet.

    It will be interesting to see where the consensus settles down on this one in, say, a year. There's going to be time for TDL to say, "You know, it isn't really very reliable, and it frankly isn't that magical." They haven't added creaky sounds to the stretchrooms or put in the Escher stairs (the load area is the obvious choice), so it's not as if they rush to duplicate WDW successes, real or perceived.

    I've never heard of the vanilla thing before.
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

    The conversation continues at Long-Forgotten, the blog.

  2. #3992

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by LangenFox View Post
    Hmmm...after seeing Tokyo Disneyland's Haunted Mansion in HD on YouTube. I recall that TDL is still the superior one. Thanks to the improved effects in the Corridor of Doors, the creepy and mysterious feeling in the Attic scene along with the cold blue heart beating bride. Also the fantastic movements of the Graveyard Jamboree.

    At 4:00- Wow! Can I have that bulging face portrait? When did these CoD improvements take place? I want them!

  3. #3993

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by WDITrent View Post
    At 4:00- Wow! Can I have that bulging face portrait? When did these CoD improvements take place? I want them!
    Tokyo has always had that push-out portrait. Why don't they have it over here? According to GRD (remember him?), the latex sheet only lasts about two weeks before it has to be replaced. They're painting new ones constantly. They just shrug their shoulders and say, well, it's a good effect. If we have to paint a new one and replace it every two weeks, so be it. Over here, that's apparently considered too much to ask. Someone should remind them that when they had two shooting galleries firing real pellets, they had to repaint all the little targets every damn night, and no one thought it was outrageous. That's just what you do when you run a first-class park.
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

    The conversation continues at Long-Forgotten, the blog.

  4. #3994

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterGracey13 View Post

    The CGI ghosts are really beginning to bother me. I had read a comment on HBG2's latest blog post that said that the new HHGs don't feel 'magical'. I believe that this person was right. They don't. They feel technological. Instead of the 'wow, this is a real ghost sitting next to me' feel, you get 'Thats a cool projection, I wonder how they were able to switch my head'. It makes the HM feel as if it is a cartoon world (VERY Hannah Barbera).

    Yes! I think you hit the nail right on the head.
    As we all well know, there are two phases to the HM experience. The first reaches towards the genuinely frightening (trapped sprits, malevolence). The second (post-seance) strikes more of a comical note; now they're free, and having a good time.

    The original HHGs unify both phases. They're comical in appearance, but sinister in their persistence. They're haunting US now. We were just gliding voyeuristically through the graveyard, watching their antics with impunity, but now all of a sudden--yikes. They're watching us. And they're going to keep watching.

    It's a brilliant twist. And one that renders everything we saw before a complete experience, not a disjointedly bifurcated one.

    We know that the HM developed through years of debate between two opposing camps within the Imagineers: those who wanted it to be scary, and those who wanted it to be funny. They chose to compromise, and make it both.

    But they also needed those two parts to harmonize into a whole, and the HHG was their (again, brilliant) mechanism for that. The visuals connect with the second part, while the situation itself connects with the first.

    Consigning the HHG to wakka-wakka party tricks doesn't just change them, but the entire experience. The denoument is gone. The ride is less cohesive, and therefore diminished.

  5. #3995

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    It will be interesting to see where the consensus settles down on this one in, say, a year.
    Yeah, I'm interested in that, too. Right now it's an interesting novelty*, but will the "Oh, cool!" people still be enjoying it when the novelty wears off, or will they have moved on? The classics become classics for a reason.


    *And certainly better than the JibJab-style animations they're using on the Spceship Earth in-ride videos

  6. #3996

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    PLQ & HHG report/review from the Laughing Place discussion boards:

    -I'm completely baffled by the queue changes at Mansion. Why make the graveyard optional? Certainly gives the impression itís not ďessentialĒ or even ďimportant.Ē Weird. Went through the graveyard and noticed the big tomb with the sea captain was creating a nice watery mess on the ground. The timing was also off with one of the effects. When the captain sneezes, water shoots out of the top of the tomb. But there was a lag between the sound effect and the water effect. Looked very shoddy, I thought. Iíve seen the graveyard once, and that was plenty. No need to go back through it. Maybe thatís why they made it optional. Someone mustíve realized itís not really spectacular. Thank you to that person.

    -The hitchhiking-ghost effect. Rode it twice (itís a favorite of my wifeís, AC, and a short line prevailed). The first time we got the ghost who dangles a lantern and makes your head disappear. Second time we got the ghost who switches the ridersí heads. First complaint: the effect would work A LOT better if the scene took place with ONE continuous mirror instead of three mirrors that divide up the action. Not sure if the separate mirrors make the effect possible, but this was a glaring deficiency, I thought. I found that at times it was really hard to follow what was happening because the action was interrupted by the gaps between the mirrors. Also, the disappearing-head effect and the switching-heads effects didnít look completely convincing in person. The best way to describe it would be to say it looked like something (dark patch or the other riderís head) had been placed over the reflection of my head. But I donít think my reflection ever completely disappeared. Iíd say this is actually one effect that looked better on Youtube than it did in person. Then again, Iím not going to be won over by the effect just because itís a neat idea. The execution of the idea is everything.

  7. #3997

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Just a consensus type of asking thing, as it turns out I started this thread version heh...folks wanting a shut down (since it seems the posting/thread limit went away during the MC tech upgrades) and resurrection as Version 8? Merely curious.
    when the spooks have a midnight jamboree....

  8. #3998

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    The people who created DL and the HM were accomplished filmmakers.
    These new guys just make "rides."

    It's like if some crappy director was allowed to tinker with a classic film (such as Hitchcock's Psycho) and that would be the only version available.

    "Now available on DVD: Alfred Hitchcock's Psycho, updated for a 2011 audience!

    Fans of the original, do not fret! We have not changed Psycho. We've enhanced it!

    The film is now in color and all the boring bits have been cut out.

    With the miracle of CGI, we've added a scene in the beginning which shows Norman Bates dressing up as his mother!

    We've also added a sassy talking squirrel sidekick (voiced by Wanda Sykes) who saves Janet Leigh in the shower!

    The kids. Will. LOVE it!"

  9. #3999

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by ttintagel View Post
    Right now it's an interesting novelty*, but will the "Oh, cool!" people still be enjoying it when the novelty wears off, or will they have moved on? The classics become classics for a reason.
    Yup. Fast forward five years from now, and you'll be seeing technology like this in window displays, bus stop advertisements, etc. A CGI figure cavorting around a "reflection" will be at the intersection of ho and hum.

    What will matter then is what matters now: what's the experience that's unfolding?

  10. #4000

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    Tokyo has always had that push-out portrait. Why don't they have it over here? According to GRD (remember him?), the latex sheet only lasts about two weeks before it has to be replaced. They're painting new ones constantly. They just shrug their shoulders and say, well, it's a good effect. If we have to paint a new one and replace it every two weeks, so be it. Over here, that's apparently considered too much to ask. Someone should remind them that when they had two shooting galleries firing real pellets, they had to repaint all the little targets every damn night, and no one thought it was outrageous. That's just what you do when you run a first-class park.
    At one time, the current owner of a certain robotics company worked for WDI. He (and others like him, others who've also moved on) proposed more lasting and versatile materials to latex, but Disney and their "good ol' boys" like to do things the way they do them, even when their ways are wasteful, outdated, ineffective and cause projects to be delayed and go over-budget. This fellow developed and patented a spongy, structured elastic polymer that has none of the problems of latex with a lot more versatility, even more than silicone. This material is long-lasting. WDI could remedy many of their AA and other problems by using this material, but they simply won't because the clannish, short-sighted dinosaurs in the good ol' boy chain of command do things their way.

    ---------- Post added 06-22-2011 at 01:44 PM ----------

    Also, I, too, feel that The Lonesome Ghosts have no place inside The Haunted Mansion and are too out-of-style-and-character with the rest of the attraction. However, if Disney ever decides to build a haunted house in Toontown, they'd be perfect for that land.

  11. #4001

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Hey, TheHatboxGhost, congratulations on both your 1,500th post and the 4,000th post on this thread. Appropriate synchronicity for a mechanical spirit.

  12. #4002

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    I've never heard of the vanilla thing before.
    Well, I know I'm not the only one because a friend of mine even commented to me about it. She said that she also noticed it missing. Vanilla is one of her favorite scents.

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    That makes me wonder how I'll react to the general scent on my first physical visit this October. I've been imagining it for years now! Like an old library with a car part here or there. Musty and mechanical..

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by NovaGreensocks View Post
    That makes me wonder how I'll react to the general scent on my first physical visit this October. I've been imagining it for years now! Like an old library with a car part here or there. Musty and mechanical..
    I don't think the attraction smells at all. At least, not in a bad way. But it might be that my sinuses have been impaired by the chlorine fumes wafting from Pirates.

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by TheHatboxGhost View Post
    I don't think the attraction smells at all. At least, not in a bad way. But it might be that my sinuses have been impaired by the chlorine fumes wafting from Pirates.
    *Odd, I typed a reply, but it never went through!

    I don't mean any stinky stenches or anything; just the general scent. For some reason, I rely heavily on my other senses, so scents play a large role in the entirety of anything I experience, really.
    When I smell chlorine, for example, I think back to being on vacation and smelling the swimming pools from the hotels. So, if I'm mopping the floor, the scent of bleach tricks my mind into thinking I'm on vacation!

    Likewise, just the scent again. At Silver Dollar City, there's a dark water ride that has a very particular scent that I've never smelled anywhere else. It's not a foul odor; just the scent of the ride itself. If I smelled it anywhere else, I'd recognize it immediately.

    So after riding the mansion, I'll probably remember the particular scent, no matter how subtle, forever. I still remember how the Timekeeper show smelled, and I only saw that once!

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