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  1. #391

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post


    Just for fun, can you date this photo?
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    Time's up. It was taken between the beginning of 1971 and the Fall of 1973, and probably closer to the former than the latter. There's an Aristocats book prominently on display. That film was released on Christmas Eve of 1970. There are no Christmas items to be seen, so we're into 1971 at the earliest. Or, as we PhD's like to say, that's the terminus a quo.

    *pauses to light pipe*

    There are no Robin Hood items, so we're before November of 1973, but souvenirs would start to appear before the actual release, so the Fall of 1973 is likely our terminus ad quem. Oh, excuse me, our latest possible date. Is it possible to narrow it down any further? Perhaps. There's an Aristocats display of some kind on top of the piano in back, suggesting that the movie was still relatively fresh, so we're closer to the beginning of our period than to the end of it.

    *puff* They say chicks like these things.

    1971, maybe early '72.

    Wonder how I'd look with a beard?
    Man, that's an absolutely beautiful pic. I really miss the "old" Main St. stores.

    Looking at that picture and noticing the "Pirates of the Carribean" soundtrack album in the rack off to the right makes me wonder why that record doesn't get nearly as much attention as the Haunted Mansion story and song album. Nobody likes sea shanties?

  2. #392

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HMfanatic View Post
    Something just occured to me as a possible reason behind the change to Leota's eyes. One thing I always noticed about the film loop of original Leota that's out there is that in close scrutiny you can see that the whole thing was not accomplished in one take but actually involves a series of individual takes for each of the incantations, and which are then faded into one another. I found this does wind up with changes - albeit not *too* major - from take to take in the position of her eyes, etc. Perhaps they considered going with a prolonged unedited shot of Kim's eyes going through the open/shut business to "correct" things? Or not...
    Well, that certainly is one possibility, but it probably would have been faster, cheaper and easier just to digitally blend those cuts in the original film. If you notice, her eyes were closed between each stanza to make the dissolves less noticeable, and her head position changes slightly - something they would have to fix with the new footage anyway. So why not just blend those dissolves better and let it go at that?
    Last edited by Grinning Ghost; 06-11-2010 at 04:52 PM.

  3. #393

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Ghost View Post
    Well, that certainly is one possibility, but it probably would have been faster, cheaper and easier just to digitally blend those cuts in the original film. If you notice, her eyes were closed between each stanza to make the dissolves less noticeable, and her head position changes slightly - something they would have to fix with the new footage anyway. So why not just blend those dissolves better and let it go at that?
    Agreed. And that probably would have taken less effort and money than transplanting Irvine's eyes onto Toombs' face and making everything match. I still think the previous poster's idea of making Leota less intimidating is a pretty good speculation.

    I don't particularly have a problem with the effect besides the fact that it seems so unnecessary. It looks a bit bizarre to me, but that's likely only because I grew up with the "old" Leota. It doesn't really ruin the effect for me. However, I would have much rather had them spend the budget used for that on... anything else.

  4. #394

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by Ouisch View Post
    I still think the previous poster's idea of making Leota less intimidating is a pretty good speculation.
    Why would they want to make Leota less intimidating? That doesn't make any sense to me. The very fact that she was intimidating is what made it work so well in the first place. The characterization was perfect as it was.

    Now when I look at floating Leota, all I see is a blend of Elizabeth Taylor and Jay Leno. Totally ruined it for me.

    While I am a purist, I'm all for improvements that work/fit in/add quality - but this is not an improvement. Somebody just wanted to play with it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

  5. #395

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Ghost View Post
    Why would they want to make Leota less intimidating? That doesn't make any sense to me. The very fact that she was intimidating is what made it work so well in the first place. The characterization was perfect as it was.
    For the same reason they've made the attic less intimidating over the years. Making things more "kid-friendly" would be my guess. I completely agree with you though, I think it was a totally unnecessary change. I honestly don't think kids would be any less scared of a floating disembodied head with slightly less intimidating eyes, but I can see some executives thinking they might be, which is why I think the speculation isn't half bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Ghost View Post
    Now when I look at floating Leota, all I see is a blend of Elizabeth Taylor and Jay Leno. Totally ruined it for me.
    Can see the Elizabeth Taylor but didn't totally get the Jay Leno. Have to take a closer look next time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Ghost View Post
    While I am a purist, I'm all for improvements that work/fit in/add quality - but this is not an improvement. Somebody just wanted to play with it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
    Agreed 100%. I'm pretty much a purist as well, and as "neat" as Constance is, I'd give anything to have the scary old attic with the mysterious bride back again. I remember being so scared of that room when I was a kid (even though I loved the rest of the ride) that I don't think I kept my eyes open for the whole attic until my second Disneyland trip.

  6. #396

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by Ouisch View Post
    Can see the Elizabeth Taylor but didn't totally get the Jay Leno. Have to take a closer look next time.
    You have to go back a few pages to see the new Disneyland Floating Leota with the internal projection. There are two shots of her, and her face is misaligned with the form, causing the chin to look out of proportion to the rest of the face, making her look like Jay Leno. The other shots - where from the side she looks like Liz - are from the WDW version, and is properly aligned.

    Interestingly, when floating Leota breaks down and they go back to the front projection with the ball on the table, it's the original film.

  7. #397

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Has anyone read HBG's blog entry on "The Flying Dutchman"? I have to wonder if it was a throwback to the sea captain storyline. But for those unfamiliar with the legend, the Flying Dutchman was a schooner or sloop sailing 'round the Cape of Good Hope in South Africa during a storm, and I read that the Captain said " I'm going to sail around this cape even if it takes me the rest of eternity!"
    Anyway how were the five paintings out of many chosen? Was it the ones that would look the best on that wall, or was it an early attempt at a story with each progressive painting?

  8. #398

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post


    Just for fun, can you date this photo?
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Time's up. It was taken between the beginning of 1971 and the Fall of 1973, and probably closer to the former than the latter. There's an Aristocats book prominently on display. That film was released on Christmas Eve of 1970. There are no Christmas items to be seen, so we're into 1971 at the earliest. Or, as we PhD's like to say, that's the terminus a quo.

    *pauses to light pipe*

    There are no Robin Hood items, so we're before November of 1973, but souvenirs would start to appear before the actual release, so the Fall of 1973 is likely our terminus ad quem. Oh, excuse me, our latest possible date. Is it possible to narrow it down any further? Perhaps. There's an Aristocats display of some kind on top of the piano in back, suggesting that the movie was still relatively fresh, so we're closer to the beginning of our period than to the end of it.

    *puff* They say chicks like these things.

    1971, maybe early '72.

    Wonder how I'd look with a beard?

    Poking around Google reveals that the store closed in 1972, so 1973 is out and 1971 - early 1972 looks about right.


    Hairy Baby!

  9. #399

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron W View Post
    Poking around Google reveals that the store closed in 1972, so 1973 is out and 1971 - early 1972 looks about right.
    I'd say more like early 1971. I don't see anything for "Bedknobs and Broomsticks" which came out in '71.

  10. #400

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron W View Post
    Poking around Google reveals that the store closed in 1972, so 1973 is out and 1971 - early 1972 looks about right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Ghost View Post
    I'd say more like early 1971. I don't see anything for "Bedknobs and Broomsticks" which came out in '71.
    You guys are hired.


    As for the Leota change, I'm not convinced by any of the possible motivations put forward so far. Smoothing out the transitions? This is suddenly a problem after three and a half decades? Anyway, as noted already, this could have been fixed much more easily if they really wanted to fix it. I also don't see any trend toward making the HM less intimidating. It's a matter of debate whether Connie is less scary than the older brides to a 7-year-old. For you young-uns, your own personal experience of fear is unreliable in this case: you were a lot older when Connie premiered. You can't know what you would have felt if you saw her when you were the same age as the first time you saw one of the older bride models. I don't think she's very scary, but I don't know if the Imagineers thought she would be less scary.

    Here's another possibility: They were/are planning on putting apparitions of Connie's husbands around the perimeter in the Sťance circle. Maybe they wanted Leota looking around a lot more?
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

    The conversation continues at Long-Forgotten, the blog.

  11. #401

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    It's a matter of debate whether Connie is less scary than the older brides to a 7-year-old. For you young-uns, your own personal experience of fear is unreliable in this case: you were a lot older when Connie premiered. You can't know what you would have felt if you saw her when you were the same age as the first time you saw one of the older bride models. I don't think she's very scary, but I don't know if the Imagineers thought she would be less scary.

    Here's another possibility: They were/are planning on putting apparitions of Connie's husbands around the perimeter in the Sťance circle. Maybe they wanted Leota looking around a lot more?
    About Constance, I don't think she's as scary. As a kid, I was deathly afraid of the old brides. However, I think Connie is more effective. I would sometimes miss the old bride. Not even notice her. My only complaint about Constance is that she is a flat projection. The very least they could have done was a "sculpt" projection. I don't mind that she talks or that she looks different from the old brides. It is, after all, a classic Haunted Mansion effect. Certainly not long and forgotten. She, Madame Leota, the singing busts, and Little Leota are all speaking, live-action projections. Well, okay. Connie is CGI. But it's not that much different.

    And your suggestion for the switch to Kim Irvines eyes... very curious! I'd like to see a comparison between Tooms and Irvine.

  12. #402

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Okay judging by how long and how many versions of this thread there are, I'm sure this has probably been discussed before in the past. But if it hasn't I suppose we can all talk about it now.

    So I've been really interested in old horror movies lately (The classic black and white ones) and I noticed something peculiar.

    There's a really old silent film that was lost many years ago called "London After Midnight" it starred Lon Chaney as this creepy vampire-guy who roamed London after midnight. He wears a top hat, a cape-like thing, and is hunched over. And as I was looking at a picture of him I noticed something strange...



    In my eyes he kind of looks like the Hatbox Ghost. Anyone else think the same thing or am I just losing it here?

    Theatrical Roles: Various Roles (The Laramie Project), Fred (Oklahoma!), Oberon (Shakespeare in Hollywood), Hero (A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum), Valere (The Miser), Moonface Martin (Anything Goes), Thenardier/Laborer/Army Officer/Ensemble (Les Miserables), Franz (The Sound of Music), Tobias Ragg (Sweeney Todd), Tinman (The Wiz), Elles Dad/Winthrop/Ensemble (Legally Blonde), William Barfee/Leaf's Dad/Jesus Christ (25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee), Fiddler on the Roof (Rabbi), The Adventures of Tom Sawyer (Muff Potter/Ensemble), Shrek the Musical (Lord Farquaad)

  13. #403

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by MANEATINGWREATH View Post

    Dear Lord,......
    Hello? I seem to be in some sort of inter dimensional dimension with no way in or out....Send Help! and Pie! pumpkin peferably

  14. #404

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    It has been discussed that Mr. Chaney does indeed bear rather a resemblance to good old Hatbox in London After Midnight. That one inspired the other certainly is in the realm of possibility, given the cross-bleeding between other horror archetypes and popular media references bleeding into the HM (such as Frankenstein's monster showing up in early sketches).
    when the spooks have a midnight jamboree....

  15. #405

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by WDITrent View Post
    And your suggestion for the switch to Kim Irvines eyes... very curious! I'd like to see a comparison between Tooms and Irvine.
    Here was the post about the new internal projection at DL with the Jay Leno chin:

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    A couple of shots of the floating, internal-projection Leota at DL are up at flickr. They're blurry, but anyway, I've lightened them and blown them up a little so as to see a bit more detail.





    Originals here.

    Over at DB.com there's a lot of complaining about the look. Chin too big. Maybe she'll be fine-tuned before she's cleared for takeoff again, and the Leno look will diminish. As for whether it really is an internal projection, the guy who reported it says he learned about it by talking to the Lead. That plus the reports of the way it looked make it pretty certain that we've got the internal projection Mdm L at DL now, as soon as they think it's ready.
    And the post showing the WDW internal Projection, plus a frame of the original Leota:

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    I actually have a little bit of sympathy for the eye transplant. Madame L's eyes look fine to most seasoned Mansionites, and especially so if they're old fawts like me. But I suspect that to someone who is new to the HM, and particularly if he/she was born sometime after the 70's, her eye makeup looks very 1960's.



    To me, Irvine's eye makeup looks close to the original, but just different enough to stay out of the 60's box. Now, that's just my opinion. Who we need to hear from are (1) some younger members, and especially (2) some of our female members, who are well-positioned to tell me if I'm fullavitt. It may be time for some of you lurkers from the estrogen side of the scale to come out of the shadows.

    Here are some shots of WDW Leota with the Irvine eyes.









    What I don't buy is the official explanation for the change. Supposedly, they just happened to film Kim Irvine doing the spiel for some mundane reason or another, and they liked the way her eyes looked in the performance so well that they just decided to splice them in.

    Puleeeze. That's a lot of messing around with a central HM icon for such a frivolous-sounding reason. And who approved the budget for that? It's more believable to me that they thought the eye makeup on Toombs looked dated, but they didn't want to sound even remotely critical of her in any way, lest the wrath of HM fans descend upon them like a cloud of killer bees. People are sensitive about these things.

    Now, for the sake of argument, let's grant that they were right about the eye makeup and that there was a need to fix it. Under those circumstances, it's hard for me to think of a more delicate and respectful way to do it than the mother-daughter thing, especially since Kim is a bona-fide Mansion Imagineer in her own right.

    So there's the other side of the argument for yuzz.
    Personally, I don't think the original is specifically 60s style. Well, perhaps there is a touch of Endora there... Seems to me that style came back briefly about four or five years ago. Anyone see Jennifer Love Hewitt in the early episodes of "Ghost Whisperer"?

    Still, I like it the way it was. Very exotic, and age-appropriate appearance to go with the voice of Eleanor Audley. New Leota is too young in appearance.

    Another silly question: Why even bother going to all the trouble of swapping out just the eyes? Why not just use all of Kim Irvine's face? She could certainly lip-sync to Audley's recording. That's what her mother did. (The vocal track came first. Leota lip-synched to the Audley recording.) Not that I want that, but it makes a whole lot more sense.

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