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  1. #4066

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HMF View Post
    Then again I never thought they would insert a fancy portrait of a random character next to the Hitchhiking Ghosts

  2. #4067

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HMF View Post
    I think it will be done with synchronized internal lighting similar to Leota but with a physical head.
    Not anymore!

  3. #4068

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by SmellyOrangutan View Post
    Well, what do you know, It looks like Marc Davis intended to put her there to begin with just like that magical piece of Mary Blair Concept Art for the America scene in Small World that they pulled out at the last minute (sarcasm)

  4. #4069

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by SmellyOrangutan View Post
    HBG rumor (specifically the part in bold) from DISboards:

    Mark my words and remember this post. The Hatbox Ghost will return to the Haunted Mansion attraction at both Florida and California.

    It has already been announced that the legendary character will have a major role in the upcoming movie, but now it is FACT that it will return to the attraction.

    Although it will be utilizing modern technology, it's appearance will not change. Artwork will be released this October at Disney that will act as an announcement and illustration of the Hatbox's return.
    Didn't Al Lutz already confirm with a reliable inside source a couple of years ago that the new HBG figure had been built and was ready to install? And didn't we all decide the reason it was postponed this last time was due to the announcement of the new HM movie? Or is it my imagination, hmmmmm?

  5. #4070

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by SmellyOrangutan View Post
    You know, looking at this, you just gotta wonder where the new Imagineers' heads are.

    They're not in my hatbox.

    (Yes, Mr. Carsillo, that IS how ridiculous and out-of-place it looks.)

  6. #4071

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Ghost View Post
    Didn't Al Lutz already confirm with a reliable inside source a couple of years ago that the new HBG figure had been built and was ready to install? And didn't we all decide the reason it was postponed this last time was due to the announcement of the new HM movie? Or is it my imagination, hmmmmm?
    Yeah, we already knew the HBG would return at some point.

    The rumor I'm referring to (what the DISboards poster claims) is that there will be an official announcement in October.

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by SmellyOrangutan View Post
    Yeah, we already knew the HBG would return at some point.

    The rumor I'm referring to (what the DISboards poster claims) is that there will be an official announcement in October.
    -- along with an exclusive, new Hatbox Ghost product line that will be sold only at separate admission events held inside the parks on special blockout/added admission dates inside separate admission showrooms where you can purchase the option to buy. That is, after you purchase your D23 membership.
    Last edited by TheHatboxGhost; 07-02-2011 at 09:47 AM.

  8. #4073

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    With regard to the problem of intellectual property, WDI, and outsiders, here's the skinny from someone who should know: Eddie Sotto. Someone guessed that he probably doesn't look at ideas submitted from the outside, for legal reasons, and he said:

    You are right that I don't look at ideas and yes, it's the same legal stuff that prevents that. Usually you both sign a mutual non disclosure statement meaning that both parties won't discuss the idea and keep it a secret. That does not mean if you told me something and I said "I was already working on that same idea" or "we already thought of that" that I could not do it and then we're at odds. WDI says that frequently because they have been brainstorming so many things for years. Of course, if they did steal something they'd have to prove they were developing it. Remember this? PIRATES LAWSUIT Artist vs Disney Company-. No wonder they don't want to see things.

    To answer your question, you get everything submitted through lawyers, the same way scripts are protected then submitted. Unless you are looking for ideas, no one encourages that approach because it still leaves you open.

    Kind of discouraging. I was lucky because the legal noose didn't exist when I was out trying to get into the business and just went in and pitched ideas with no legal anything. I just wanted a job.
    Also this:

    Intellectual property law has made presenting ideas a tangled web, it's not just Disney. Big corporations are seen as having deep pockets and are targeted by those who come back years later and sue for the ideas they claim were stolen. They sometimes win and that is not forgotten.

    The reaction to that is to hear and see nothing, it's not worth it when you already have a staff of Imagineers paid to think of things that you own. A little guy like me does not want nor can I afford that liability so I'm the same way.

    It's crazy, but an unfortunate reality.

    Speaking of Sotto, he has also supplied the fascinating background to this piece of concept artwork published in D23 magazine:



    It's concept art for a proposal that was DOA due to price. Also, it was deemed "too intense."

    Haunted Mansion 3-D makeover. Mardi Gras masks are 3-D glasses in this adventure where the walk-through ends in the ballroom and you are seated at the table. Suddenly as the lightning flashes The chairs are whisked away into the darkness one by one. This was the TDL Pooh wireless ride system meets Poltergeist.
    I live to do stuff no one has seen. There is always a risk as you toy with the past. In the case of the HM it was about getting to have an experience in a room everyone knows but has never been allowed to explore. Then if you were "picked off" disappearing into the darkness one by one by the "ghost host", it could be an extension of the original story. Probably too intense as your chair tilted back and you indexed against a 3D screen on your back and the caretaker was shoveling dirt on you! You awakened in the graveyard. That would never fly. The art is in a D23 Magazine but they had no idea what it represented.
    [E]ach pair of high backed dining chairs is linked at the floor to become a wireless ride vehicle. (The safety bar lowers from underneath the dining room table.) I think there were "dishes" with faces that appear at your place setting, and effects happened at your place at the table before departure. Like in the old murder mystery "and then there were none", guests keep "vanishing" when the lightning darkens the room, replaced by a set of empty chairs. You are grabbed and "led" to the graveyard where you are all part of this insane musical dance macbre. That ballroom scene is what is shown in the D23 magazine. We thought it could have been a big "wow" with that ride system as it can do so many disembodied things. With 3D "mardi gras masks" you are going to the party and of course digital effects can be blended with physical objects. There were tons of issues like cost (cha-ching) and how we cycle things etc, but that is normal. This would have been a huge commitment, but you have to do something really extraordinary to get people to come back as you are enhancing a classic. There was a call to propose enhancements to existing attractions for DL 50th, so I think that was what this idea was. From a budget perspective it was almost a new attraction, but you'd still have all the classic characters, the stretch room, hallway, and even the same graveyard in concept. You would experience these areas in a very "how did they do that?" way. The idea was to build on the things you liked about the show and perhaps make it more intense and magical. I'm sure any change to the HM would have resulted in massive riots, hunger strikes and fan outrage. We then proposed it for TDL, but it was meant for DL.
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

    The conversation continues at Long-Forgotten, the blog.

  9. #4074

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    Now, THAT'S entertainment!

    P. S. I thought they ate dog in China, not Japan. Baked Fido makes no sense to me. Did Carsillo's team add that character?
    Last edited by TheHatboxGhost; 07-02-2011 at 09:57 AM.

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Art time. Trivia time.

    If you've read my latest blog post, you know that I make reference to the round table with a living hand in the middle holding the candlestick in Cocteau's La belle et la bÍte, and I suggest that the crystal ball table in Rolly Crump's Museum of the Weird sketches was inspired by it.



    This got me interested in the maquette of that table, which is visible at one point in the "Tencennial" show. Lately I've been trying to isolate those maquettes, and I thought I'd try it with the table. It's only partly blocked, but the main problem is that it doesn't look finished to me, so I played around with it.

    It's based on this drawing primarily:



    The table in the color sketch is very different, but Jack Ferges (or Rolly), who made the maquette, made use of the stools in the color sketch as models, interestingly enough:



    Here's a montage so you can see where I cheated. Original photo on the top left. I did one with the original colors and one with enhanced coloration, and I did one with a ring of tasseled skulls (from the sketch) and one without the ring, so you can choose your poison.



    Actually, it turned out better than I expected. For you MotW fans.



    Can you imagine Madame Leota talking out of that?
    Last edited by HBG2; 07-02-2011 at 12:23 PM.
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

    The conversation continues at Long-Forgotten, the blog.

  11. #4076

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Love it, HBG2...thank you for the info on the Sotto concept and the Museum table. Truly high quality stuff and why I keep coming back to this thread. Cheers.

  12. #4077

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Would be great if they could work that Mansion concept into Shanghai.
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  13. #4078

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    I've always thought a thrill ride version of the HM would be interesting.
    But not as a replacement for the existing attraction(s).
    Why not build it at Shanghai Disneyland?

    New argument:

    The queue graveyard is the family plot, where the Mansion's mortal residents, relatives, and friends (and pets) were buried.

    The graveyard in the ride is an old public cemetery that the Mansion was built next to...
    Or not.

    It's not a public cemetery (or at least isn't anymore). Here's why:

    EXHIBIT A
    Singing busts Uncle Theodore and Cousin Algernon.
    Why would people commemorated in a public cemetery be referred to as "uncle" or "cousin?"

    EXHIBIT B
    From the Story and Song narration:
    "Broken windows in the room allowed them to see the outside. There below was the private graveyard."
    "Our adventurous pair descended the steps to the ground level and began their walk through the private burial grounds trying to find their way out of this living nightmare."

    EXHIBIT C
    The mummy.
    Yes, there was the Victorian mummy craze and all that.
    But why would the residents of the Mansion put such a valuable acquisition (an Egyptian mausoleum complete with mummy and sarcophagus) in a public cemetery?


    EXHIBIT D
    Bluebeard.

    He died in 1440.
    He was not from America.
    His tomb was brought to the Mansion.

    EXHIBIT E
    "Burial Crypts of Famous Villains."

    According to the concept art, the crypts of prominent ghosts from all over the world (Nero, Dracula, Jack the Ripper, Medusa, Attila, and Bluebeard) arrived with them to the Mansion.
    It was supposedly for Tokyo's HM, meaning Marc would have done it after the USA HMs had already been open for years.

    EXHIBIT F
    The Phantom Five flutist.

    He's sitting in his own tomb in the graveyard.
    Is he the single American in this ghostly band (the rest being from medieval Europe)?
    Nope. Look at his clothing in this Story and Song illustration:


    EXHIBIT G
    From the 1969 WED Enterprises synopsis:
    "Near some recently-vacated crypts, a hulking, masked executioner sings with his victim, a decapitated knight, who holds his singing, severed head in an extended hand."
    This indicates to me that the executioner and knight came out of those crypts. Their crypts.

    Also, the Story and Song gives zero explanation as to why there are kings, queens, knights, etc. in the HM.
    They're just there, hanging around in the graveyard.
    One would assume that it's where their "resting places" are located.

    So it's the Mansion's private graveyard with crypts and tombs that were collected from all over the world.

  14. #4079

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by TheHatboxGhost View Post
    Now, THAT'S entertainment!

    P. S. I thought they ate dog in China, not Japan. Baked Fido makes no sense to me. Did Carsillo's team add that character?
    That's a stylized pig. Definitely a pig's snout on the front end.

    ---------- Post added 07-02-2011 at 08:40 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by SmellyOrangutan View Post
    It's not a public cemetery (or at least isn't anymore).
    You forgot about this image from the Story and Song album:



    This certainly makes it appear to be a public cemetery called "Whispering Glade". Even more so when you look at the whole image:



    ---------- Post added 07-02-2011 at 08:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by SmellyOrangutan View Post
    Singing busts Uncle Theodore and Cousin Algernon.
    Why would people commemorated in a public cemetery be referred to as "uncle" or "cousin?"
    They could be related to others in the same plot... But in this case, the Singing Busts really don't have names:



    Their names were taken from an early concept sketch, not necessarily related to the graveyard. They appear to be a collection of busts for inside the house. In any case, the concept names stuck over the years:

    Last edited by Grinning Ghost; 07-02-2011 at 05:08 PM.

  15. #4080

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Ghost
    the Singing Busts really don't have names
    Their names are/were on the film strips for each individual bust.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Ghost
    This certainly makes it appear to be a public cemetery called "Whispering Glade".
    That's an homage to the Whispering Glades cemetery in the film The Loved One, which itself was an homage to Forest Lawn Memorial Park in Glendale, CA.

    Forest Lawn is a privately-owned cemetery where tons of celebrities are buried.
    That also ties in with the fact that the HM is full of prominent (famous) ghosts.

    If the HM's graveyard was an American public cemetery, why would it have the tomb of a medieval minstrel?

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