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  1. #4231

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    useless fact of the day: due to recent evidence it can now be confirmed that in it's history Disneyland has had 6 different Attic Bride incarnations and WDW has had 4. Yeah I actually wasted my time counting that. Of course it only took a few mental seconds. I guess I am just that geeky.

  2. #4232

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Okay, giving this more thought.

    I more or less accept HMF's breakdown of the history of the DL bride, except that the date they went to the round-eyed version is simply unknown.

    1) Aug 1969 — ca. Sept 1969: Slit-eyed, dark-faced (original position)
    2) ca. Sept 1969 — betw 1974 and 1989 (but closer to the former): Corpse Bride
    3) betw 74 and 89 (closer to 74) — Sept 1995: Round-eyed, dark-faced
    4) Sept 1995 — May 2006: "middle bride" (face visible)
    5) May 2006 — present: Constance

    I've heavily edited my post on this subject at El Bloggo.

    There are two new reasons (since yesterday!) why I've come around to this scenario:

    1) The more I look at that 1970, 1975 side-by-side, the more impressed I am. Yeah, it's blurry and distant and not "proof," but go over it carefully: detail after detail match just a little too well.



    2) We get a logical progression. They start with the Beating Heart with backlit, slitty eyes, then they redo her face completely for her new position by the exit. Then for some reason they don't like how she looks and want to go back to the darkened face. They can just paint the CB face black, but now, with the CB, her back-lit eye holes are round, so they decide to leave them round, just blank white like the original.
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  3. #4233

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    My theory on Attic Bride History coming up. -darn it I want to do a visual montage but the board won't let me.
    1969- Hatbox Ghost removal-Slit eyes
    late 1969-1974- Corpse Bride
    1974-1995-Glowing round eyes
    This whole thing gets simpler if we go with the hyopthesis that slit-eye was only a mockup and never existed in the ride. If I'm not mistaken we only have the one promo photo, as well as another amateur photo that seemed to show eye-slits but looked a lot more like plain-old on-ride motion blur to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2
    no one seems to remembers CB, but lots of people remember REBF as their earliest recollection of the bride...and I don't remember anything but REBF.
    I'm assuming here that the difference between CB & REBF is just some paint and detailing on the figure, not like a major overhaul - maybe they simply didn't look that different under show conditions. Maybe, when it came time in the mid-70s to change out the face & body pieces on the bride, they realized they didn't need to recreate the corpse detailing since it had so little effect on the show. This would explain why nobody recalls anything other than REBF, since REBF & CB were actually the same thing in terms of the show. I mean, unless we have other information about what CB looked like under show lighting, it looks like we're trying to reconcile different types of evidence (flash photos from early in the ride, ride-lighting-photos from later on, and recollections from throughout that period) and focusing on the differences without noticing the possibility that they are all the same thing, give or take some detailing only visible under flash.

    So absent better information, my hypothesis would be that DL & WDW both started out with the same style bride, which had round eyes, and for time had corpse-like detailing which over time was changed out with a simpler, undetailed body & face style.

  4. #4234

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HMF View Post
    useless fact of the day: due to recent evidence it can now be confirmed that in it's history Disneyland has had 6 different Attic Bride incarnations and WDW has had 4. Yeah I actually wasted my time counting that. Of course it only took a few mental seconds. I guess I am just that geeky.
    BTW' I am counting the second middle bride as a separate incarnation here since I feel she is different enough from the first middle bride to be counted as such.

    ---------- Post added 07-15-2011 at 02:54 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    We get a logical progression. They start with the Beating Heart with backlit, slitty eyes, then they redo her face completely for her new position by the exit. Then for some reason they don't like how she looks and want to go back to the darkened face. They can just paint the CB face black, but now, with the CB, her back-lit eye holes are round, so they decide to leave them round, just blank white like the original.
    Another theory on why they changed back is maybe Corpse Bride was just a bit too frightening for the younger guests.

  5. #4235

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    This video just got posted on the DB boards:

    ‪Haunted Mansion 1991 - ExpertVacations.com - Vintage WDW‬‏ - YouTube

    In all my years, I have never witnessed the front gates closed (and with funeral wreaths). I wonder why they were removed, its not like anyone is allowed to go through the middle portal anyway. It also reminded me how important the 2007 referb was. The audio quality is light-years better, the graveyard vocals and soundtrack all match up, and the ML & bust projection is always spot-on. My only two post-2007 complaints are that you cannot see the full MG transformation and that the stretching room sequence was shortened (both were perfect when it reopened). Oh well, thats life I suppose.

  6. #4236

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterGracey13 View Post
    This video just got posted on the DB boards:

    ‪Haunted Mansion 1991 - ExpertVacations.com - Vintage WDW‬‏ - YouTube

    In all my years, I have never witnessed the front gates closed (and with funeral wreaths). I wonder why they were removed, its not like anyone is allowed to go through the middle portal anyway. It also reminded me how important the 2007 referb was. The audio quality is light-years better, the graveyard vocals and soundtrack all match up, and the ML & bust projection is always spot-on. My only two post-2007 complaints are that you cannot see the full MG transformation and that the stretching room sequence was shortened (both were perfect when it reopened). Oh well, thats life I suppose.
    That vid can't be from 1991. the middle bride is already there which I thought was added in 96.

  7. #4237

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Excuse me for butchering your image.

    That is the current succession of the brides? (will remove if you wish, however, I'm off to Disneyland right now xD)
    Last edited by MrHatboxGhost; 07-15-2011 at 12:05 PM.

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Anaznos is right that we don't really know what CB looked like in the dark. The difference between her and REBF may have been negligible.

    That video does seem misdated by four or five years at least. There's a 1995 WDW video on youtube that seems to show REBF. REBF was certainly there in 1990, fwiw.

    Here's some more evidence of a light and fluffy nature to throw into the mix as we reconstruct the bride's early history (the topic de jour). As I said earlier, I've decided that you can't see the bride's eye(s) at all in the new footage. The question is: why not? They're lit, and they're at least as bright as the candle tip, one would think, and the candle tip is certainly visible several times in the clip.

    Is this indirect evidence that you're looking at the slit-eye version? The eye-holes were slits; those are not just white smears in the photo. If you blow it up, you can plainly see their rectangular contours.



    Those gave out considerably less light than later versions, one supposes, and that would neatly explain why the eyes are not visible in the film.
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

    The conversation continues at Long-Forgotten, the blog.

  9. #4239

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    Anaznos is right that we don't really know what CB looked like in the dark. The difference between her and REBF may have been negligible.

    That video does seem misdated by four or five years at least. There's a 1995 WDW video on youtube that seems to show REBF. REBF was certainly there in 1990, fwiw.

    Here's some more evidence of a light and fluffy nature to throw into the mix as we reconstruct the bride's early history (the topic de jour). As I said earlier, I've decided that you can't see the bride's eye(s) at all in the new footage. The question is: why not? They're lit, and they're at least as bright as the candle tip, one would think, and the candle tip is certainly visible several times in the clip.

    Is this indirect evidence that you're looking at the slit-eye version? The eye-holes were slits; those are not just white smears in the photo. If you blow it up, you can plainly see their rectangular contours.



    Those gave out considerably less light than later versions, one supposes, and that would neatly explain why the eyes are not visible in the film.
    Yet another Mansion mystery solved right here.

  10. #4240

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by MrHatboxGhost View Post
    Excuse me for butchering your image.

    That is the current succession of the brides? (will remove if you wish, however, I'm off to Disneyland right now xD)
    IMHO, the best is on the left and the worst on the right. So much for progress...

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Have you ever seen so much intrigue squeezed out of a few feet of impossibly murky film?

    I'm picking up on the last point here. You can't see the bride's eyes. This would make sense with the slit-eye bride but be harder to explain with the others. Ah, but someone could argue that nothing is visible that high up in the frame. Just too dark. See?



    That white dot (formerly the bride's eye) seems to be in only one frame and could be a glitch. Note that the big white smear on the left gives out before getting that high. Maybe that's the limit. Maybe it's so dark in the upper half of the frame that the camera just can't pick up anything at all.

    Nope, that argument won't do. There is yet another frame in which you can see something up there, a pale vertical streak.



    Seems to be about where the white dot of light is found in the other frame. I have no idea what it is. You know how the attic is; it could be a hundred different things. It could be that the lower end of it is cut off by the bride's head, however.



    The best evidence that there really are things to be seen up there, however, can only be seen when you're watching the film rolling. When you go back to it, go to the place where Todd is solemnly announcing the HBG's appearance in the next clip. "Here we go," he says. Then what you get is another half a second or so of the bride before it switches to the HBG. We've discussed that fragment of film earlier. You can see the bride slipping off to the left (i.e., the camera is swinging to the right). But this next time, keep your eye on the top of the frame after the "Here we go." You can just barely see some vague shape up there slipping off to the left along with the more obvious white smears below. It's just enough to prove that stuff in that upper part of the frame is "visible" to the camera, however faintly.

    That means the bride's eyes should have been seen somewhere in the earlier footage, if they were as bright as we're used to seeing them. So... IMO the slit-eye theory gets a little more support with these observations.

    Next up: The second shooter on the grassy knoll: is he in the attic?
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  12. #4242

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    HBG2, I want to hijack your computer along with all of its Haunted Mansion goodness.
    kidding of course.

  13. #4243

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by MrHatboxGhost View Post
    HBG2, I want to hijack your computer along with all of its Haunted Mansion goodness.
    kidding of course.
    Even after all these years I am still amazed at the stuff we have discovered in this thread series.

  14. #4244

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Why were the front gates and wreaths removed? They truly added a nice creepy touch? More WDI incompetence I guess. Seriously, the more they try to "improve" the WDW mansion, the more they mess it up.

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by MrHatboxGhost View Post
    HBG2, I want to hijack your computer along with all of its Haunted Mansion goodness.
    kidding of course.
    Quote Originally Posted by HMF View Post
    Even after all these years I am still amazed at the stuff we have discovered in this thread series.
    Just a word of caution: these recent posts represent a lot of speculation on my part. Azagnos could be right that it's a lot simpler. It could still be the case that they started with CB, and her eyes were dim enough not to show up in the film, and that CB didn't look that much different from REBF, so that it wasn't a very big deal when they decided to blacken the face (and presumably to brighten the eyes). And maybe slit-eye never was used; maybe she's a prototype model, like FoxxFur thinks.

    I should also give a shout-out to GRD (remember him?). He always had a hunch that DL had CB and possibly started out with her, while I was skeptical.

    You were right, GRD.
    Last edited by HBG2; 07-16-2011 at 11:04 AM.
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