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  1. #4846

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by skoolpsyk View Post
    the new issue of Wired (Oct. 2011) has a little review of the new HHGs in the WDW HM. Refers to it as an "utter sacrilege".
    Wha...? But, but, I thought techies were supposed to love what they did.
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

    The conversation continues at Long-Forgotten, the blog.

  2. #4847

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    Plato thought that the physical table in front of you was less "real" than the idea of tableness in the mind of the artisan who created it. We literally invent nothing. We only glimpse with the mind "forms" that exist beyond our sensory world, and our creations are poor-ish copies of those, "shadows." The quantity of "forms" is practically infinite, but anything imagined and/or created is only possible because the thing already exists in the non-sensory world. Aristotle (Plato's pupil) thought this was nonsense, that "tableness" only comes into existence with actual, physical tables. There's no ghostly table floating around out there waiting for an artisan to "see" it and copy it.
    I wanted to single this out and take note of something that you do a lot, HBG2, that I really enjoy: the "argument from visual rhyme". You have an incredible knack for finding, selecting & placing two or three images side by side in such a way that they seem like they're just supposed to go together, or that they must have influenced each other in some way. Even when it's logically impossible to think that they actually did so in a real world way. This is just the most recent example:

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post


    The echoes between these two images are just crazy. The paneling, the hands, the general composition and visual weighting...it's enough to make you start thinking you're looking at two versions of the same thing. It's easy enough to buy into the idea that London After Midnight influenced the HM/the HBG in a general way, but this makes it look like that particular mockup and promo shot was somehow modeled on that specific surviving still, which is a much more out-there proposition. Anyway, if I were a Platonist I'd probably be happily to surmise that Chaney and Gracey (et al) were simply "looking at the same Form".

  3. #4848

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Well, thanks! Yeah, when I saw the paneling behind the figures, I couldn't resist!

    Platonism has had a bad rap among philosophers for a long time, but it won't stay in its coffin. I can't remember his name, but a few years ago a respected philosopher floated some ideas that evoked gasps of horror from his colleagues. "Why, that's practically Platonism!" He sort of sheepishly responded that, well, that's where the argument took him, sorry. (He was studying linguistics, IIRC, and how you can see someone fumbling around awkwardly trying to find a way to express an idea that is quickly and easily expressed in another language because they have exactly the word for it. The first guy can "see" the idea clearly in his head even though he can't find a way to satisfactorily articulate it, either to himself or to anyone else. Others who have seen the same exact idea have long since come up with a handy label for it in their language. So the idea is there before any visible or aural expression of it, and it's "really there" because different people see it independently. One guy is feeling content because he's got just the word for it, while the other guy is frustrated because he can't find the right size screwdriver anywhere in his linguistic toolbox. A good example of this is that quality of effortless grace in performing something difficult that you see in dancers and athletes especially, but also in diplomats and courtiers. Fred Astaire. They make it look so easy and natural, when it is neither. One definition is "studied carelessness." It's a step beyond mere mastery, and you need a paragraph to adequately describe this quality in English, even though everyone knows what that thing is you're trying to describe, and they generally "catch on" sometime in the middle of your speech. Meanwhile, the Italians just say, "Oh, you mean sprezzatura.")
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

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  4. #4849

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    I found this caption on my tumblr reading list and thought it relevant. Direct or Indirect influence? Harold Lloyd's "Haunted Spooks" (1920). The part I read was "ghastly grinning ghosts of the dead creep from thier graves". Was this movie already discussed among the influences of "Grim Grinning Ghosts" awhile back?

  5. #4850

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    I don't think it was. That is an interesting quote though.

    Off topic, but now is the time to google "Count Creepy" (no relation) and download or listen to his vast library of spooky music from the 20's til present. You will find many trez cool songs including the possible influences to the HM as discussed here or on "EL Bloggo".

  6. #4851

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    That's really a good catch, Fen. It's true that Shakespeare provides an exact match with "grim grinning ghost," but "ghastly grinning ghosts" is a close second, and being taken from an old haunted house movie puts it right where we know the Imagineers were snooping around for ideas, whereas the Shakespeare quote is obscure and utterly disconnected from anything like a haunted house setting (it's a rhetorical second person address to Death, the Reaper, you "grim grinning ghost"). The difference between the two quotations (one is an exact match, one is merely a close match) has to be calculated against these other considerations. Right now I'm inclined to go with the Lloyd movie as the likelier inspiration and attribute the greater precision of the Shakespeare quote to coincidence.

    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

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  7. #4852

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    For your consideration...




    On the left is the Haunted Spooks (1920) artwork; on the right is some Fantasia "Night on Bald Mountain" concept art. I wouldn't go so far as to claim absolutely that we have direct influence here, since we're dealing with such obvious visual clichés, but still...heckuva lotta details in common, as well as the overall look. (The concept art is in color, of course; I've bw'ed it for purposes of comparison.)
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

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  8. #4853

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    "Didn't you know that every four years the ghastly grinning ghosts of the dead creep from their graves and roam these rooms?"

    Yeah, Presidential nominating conventions can be rough.

  9. #4854

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Update from visiting the Mansion over the weekend, just small things of interest to the dedicated Thread followers (in other words, nothing epic).

    • The lightning in the portrait hall windows seemed not to be all in synch with each other, i.e., firing at the same time...not at all a big deal but I am not sure if it all flashed in synch between the three before, or slight delay.
    • The hatchet man/ghost host portrait is currently missing from the Corridor of Doors. First time through, I figured just was looking at the wrong moment and didn't see it over "behind" the doombuggies, but second time, verified it was not hung in the usual spot and nowhere visible in the hall. Hopefully that's only temporary and not because they decided to '86 it altogether....
    • The monkey "beating heart bride" is hidden the attic again for HMH decorating. Doesn't hold a candle (heh heh) to the real thing, but a reminder at least of pre-Constance.
    • Blast-up skull is working well and gets good height, though the delay in between blasts seems longer.
    • Maybe because it is more brightly lit with Holiday stuff, but I really appreciated the simplest of graveyard gags this time through due to them being more visible: the distinctive tombstone etching designs and rocking/tilting headstones. Very simple but adds a lot of movement and texture that isn't strictly 'necessary' or all that showy...true old school Mansion goodness, right there.
    • No exit crypt/Candido laugh playing....removed for Holiday as too "creepy", perhaps.

  10. #4855

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    I don't know if anyone else pointed this out already, but check this out:
    Amazon.com: The Phantom Carriage (Criterion Collection) [Blu-ray]: Victor Sjöström, Hilda Borgström, Tore Svennberg, Astrid Holm, Concordia Selander, Lisa Lundholm, Tor Weijden, Arne Mattsson: Movies & TV
    I believe this is the movie HBG2 was referring to on his blog a while back...

    ---------- Post added 09-27-2011 at 10:24 AM ----------

    Additionally, for the cheapskates (such as myself!) it is also available on this wonderful site, albeit non-restored:
    The Phantom Carriage : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

  11. #4856

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by RegionsBeyond View Post
    • No exit crypt/Candido laugh playing....removed for Holiday as too "creepy", perhaps.
    I think for Holiday they replace it with a deep "ho ho ho!"; a very nice touch, seeing as that is an incredibly small detail.

  12. #4857

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by ww12345 View Post
    I don't know if anyone else pointed this out already, but check this out:
    Amazon.com: The Phantom Carriage (Criterion Collection) [Blu-ray]: Victor Sjöström, Hilda Borgström, Tore Svennberg, Astrid Holm, Concordia Selander, Lisa Lundholm, Tor Weijden, Arne Mattsson: Movies & TV
    I believe this is the movie HBG2 was referring to on his blog a while back...

    ---------- Post added 09-27-2011 at 10:24 AM ----------

    Additionally, for the cheapskates (such as myself!) it is also available on this wonderful site, albeit non-restored:
    The Phantom Carriage : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive
    Actually, I wasn't aware of that film, so thanks for drawing attention to it. It's another example of the Death Coach being adapted to the screen with yet another explanation of what it is.

    What with The Phantom Carriage, London After Midnight, and Haunted Spooks, I may do a sequel to From Creepy Old Flicks All Over the World. Incidentally, that one is comfortably ensconced within the top ten favorite posts evah over there, judging by number of views.
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

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  13. #4858

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    What with The Phantom Carriage, London After Midnight, and Haunted Spooks, I may do a sequel to From Creepy Old Flicks All Over the World. Incidentally, that one is comfortably ensconced within the top ten favorite posts evah over there, judging by number of views.
    That was the first post I ever read!

  14. #4859

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Thanks for the HMH update! I always like to hear what's new and see high rez photos or videos of it.

    I just watched haunted spooks but other than the "GGG" quote, there wasn't really anything that screamed HM to me. There was a shadow on a wallpaper pattern that made the pattern look like a face, but I think it was coincidental. I really enjoyed how the captions had artwork.

    I'm looking forward to watching the Phantom Carriage.

    I also watched Lonesome Ghosts again. There is one scene where Donald is being tricked by a ghost with a room full of water. This made me think of the water-room flooding gag in one of the early drafts of the HM when it was still a walk through ride.

  15. #4860

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    That's a good point. The magically disappearing water is an effect you can do with Pepper's, so it wouldn't be a stretch to think Rolly and Yale thought it would be a great idea to adapt.

    New post up at El Bloggo, and thanks to all you guys for the subject matter. It's very recent material this time around.
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

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