The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

[HMF]

I wonder what his explanation would be for the hordes of people that showed up at the DL Mansion on the Aug 9-11, 1969 opening?
.

They wanted to get out of the house in case the Manson Family showed up.

---------- Post added 10-02-2011 at 02:31 AM ----------

For foolish mortals and happy haunts both of weak disposition, a friendly word of warning: maybe don't click this link.

For the rest (and yes, I realize people will take goofy photos at Disney parks regardless, such can be fun..this is half joking), here is the full potential doubtless as Carsillo and team wanted for the new queue to be 'interactive'

IIIIIII aint got nobooooooody! | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I don't want to live on this planet anymore - YouTube

[HBG2]

In regards to the Room For One More dinner presentation, it is again somewhat tragic to hear them praise the longevity of "old school" special effects working after all these years with the Haunted Mansion to then go on and talk about how awesome the new Hitchhiking Ghosts are. I suppose certain classic effects are only so classic to their view.

Hearing the Imagineers speak, particularly about the queue "enhancements" at the Mansion, feels more and more like someone rationalizing a really bad decision. These seem like very smart and passionate guys but their actions suggest that they only seem to care about the attraction's integrity to a point. It was enough of a bummer to see these changes enacted in the first place, but now after actually hearing them implicitly defend their work makes the entire thing all the more unfortunate.

They sincerely enjoy being part of Disney, but the price is that you have to hew to the company line. In a public venue, they will defend anything WDI has done because they HAVE to in order to keep their careers moving upward. You HAVE to be a team player, that's just the way it is. When you're in a position like that, you find a way to justify it to yourself and pretend to yourself that you actually believe it.

Having said that, yes, there is a strange logic in praising the genius of the old school effects that you are now dismantling even though there is no evidence that they have lost the appeal you are praising.

They also seem happy to leave the false impression that they are trading in cutting-edge 1969 tech for cutting-edge 2011 tech. Bullcrap. The effects were emphatically old tech at the time they were built, which means the new team is not simply updating but genuinely changing the recipe behind the ride's illusioneering.

It astounds me that none of them seem to see this. I am a layman with no credentials and these are trained professionals who genuinely love their craft and have been apprenticed in some cases by Disney Imagineering legends, and yet I am bold to point my finger at them and say, "No! You do not understand this attraction. You do not."

[HMF]

They sincerely enjoy being part of Disney, but the price is that you have to hew to the company line. In a public venue, they will defend anything WDI has done because they HAVE to in order to keep their careers moving upward. You HAVE to be a team player, that's just the way it is. When you're in a position like that, you find a way to justify it to yourself and pretend to yourself that you actually believe it.

Having said that, yes, there is a strange logic in praising the genius of the old school effects that you are now dismantling even though there is no evidence that they have lost the appeal you are praising.

They also seem happy to leave the false impression that they are trading in cutting-edge 1969 tech for cutting-edge 2011 tech. Bullcrap. The effects were emphatically old tech at the time they were built, which means the new team is not simply updating but genuinely changing the recipe behind the ride's illusioneering.

It astounds me that none of them seem to see this. I am a layman with no credentials and these are trained professionals who genuinely love their craft and have been apprenticed in some cases by Disney Imagineering legends, and yet I am bold to point my finger at them and say, "No! You do not understand this attraction. You do not."

Things like PLQ and many aspects of American Culture in general really irritate me. Many times I feel like I am losing touch with the modern world, Am I the only one?

[Mr.Fenwright]

I was going to wait to do this, but I am going to take a trip back to my first visit to the Haunted Mansion attic... memories were hazy, but one thing made me jump every time. My tribute to the Haunted Mansion(and old spookhouse) pop-ups.

[RequiesCat]

Things like PLQ and many aspects of American Culture in general really irritate me. Many times I feel like I am losing touch with the modern world, Am I the only one?

I'm right there with you. In two weeks I'll be the ripe, old age of 25, and for years I have not been able to understand why so many try to pigeon-hole my generation (as well as the up-and-comers) as being lazy, unintelligent, unintelligible, and unable to pay attention to anything for very long without something flashing wildly in our faces to hold our focus. Granted, there certainly are those that give the rest of us youngsters a bad rap, but they really shouldn't represent the rest of us as a whole... then again perhaps I'm being presumptuous. Obviously someone buys into that flashy nonsense, or they wouldn't be dishing it out to us in such large quantities.

However - I believe that if you treat others as intelligent human beings (and not simply a mass collection of Homer Simpsons) they will rise to the occasion, and perhaps even exceed your expectations. - Yeah WDI, that bit was directed at you.

[HMF]

I'm right there with you. In two weeks I'll be the ripe, old age of 25, and for years I have not been able to understand why so many try to pigeon-hole my generation (as well as the up-and-comers) as being lazy, unintelligent, unintelligible, and unable to pay attention to anything for very long without something flashing wildly in our faces to hold our focus. Granted, there certainly are those that give the rest of us youngsters a bad rap, but they really shouldn't represent the rest of us as a whole... then again perhaps I'm being presumptuous. Obviously someone buys into that flashy nonsense, or they wouldn't be dishing it out to us in such large quantities.

However - I believe that if you treat others as intelligent human beings (and not simply a mass collection of Homer Simpsons) they will rise to the occasion, and perhaps even exceed your expectations. - Yeah WDI, that bit was directed at you.

I am more concerned about the next generation than my own. Disney and culture in general is getting dumber by the minute. (Did you know "fail" is a noun now?) The problem is kids are not stupid but they will become stupid if you dumb things down too much. The greatest example of this is the 2007 disastrous dumb-down of Epcot's Spaceship Earth (Which Carsillo was involved with mind you.) which exemplifies everything that is wrong with modern society. I don't know if society is getting dumber or if Disney thinks society is getting dumber.(Probably both)

[RequiesCat]

I must confess to having used "fail" as a noun, because I find it silly. I can enjoy the ridiculous; I just don't want it shoved in my face.

What grieves me is knowing there are kids that will grow up believing that is the correct usage. But what can be done? It's not the first time a words meaning and usage have been twisted, and I doubt it'll be the last.

I don't know if society is getting dumber or if Disney thinks society is getting dumber.(Probably both)

Seems like a vicious cycle of "dumbing down" that cannot end well.

[Disneytwins]

I think they're kind of correct when they think society is dumb... because society has never been dumber as it is today.

[WDITrent]

And what's really funny is that Epcot is all about how each new age is more advanced than the last, and yet they slap touchscreens in their flagship attraction because they wanted to accommodate short attention spans.

[Disneytwins]

The touch screens are quite cool in my opinion. It allows guests to interact with the attraction, which is interesting. The only problem I have is the lack of eye candy while you are going downhill.

[ttintagel]

The touch screens are quite cool in my opinion. It allows guests to interact with the attraction, which is interesting. The only problem I have is the lack of eye candy while you are going downhill.

I, personally, feel no need to interact with an attraction. It doesn't make it a bit more interesting for me. The attraction's job is to capture my imagination and make my mind work. If I want something to interact with, there are millions of real people around me.

---------- Post added 10-02-2011 at 03:21 PM ----------

I was going to wait to do this, but I am going to take a trip back to my first visit to the Haunted Mansion attic... memories were hazy, but one thing made me jump every time. My tribute to the Haunted Mansion(and old spookhouse) pop-ups.

Last time I was in the Mansion, one of the graveyard popups made me jump out of my seat. Sure, I knew they were there, and I knew they were only heads, but my attention was absorbed by something over on my right when bam! Something jumped up a foot away from my left. It was magic.

[RegionsBeyond]

Last time I was in the Mansion, one of the graveyard popups made me jump out of my seat. Sure, I knew they were there, and I knew they were only heads, but my attention was absorbed by something over on my right when bam! Something jumped up a foot away from my left. It was magic.

Very well stated, and I agree...the pop-up heads are about as low-tech as you can get and a staple of dark rides/spookhouses since they've been around. They absolutely work, and in the Mansion, provide texture and variety while being ridiculously simple. I miss the attic having the even 'creepier' ones with the screams, and being a ominous scene...I still am sad they rather neutered probably the outright scariest ride scene it had. Something doesn't need to be new and high tech to be effective...tech has it's place, of course, but the current Mansion mindset of its use (awkward Anaheim Constance, CGI hitchhikers that are off-model, interactive queue) is less than desirable or well thought-out about integration.

Sad, really.

[HBG2]

Michael Sprout

For those who don't want to wade through the whole video or missed it when they did, this is the name of the Imagineer who wrote the impossible epitaph for the Tubsoleum (drowned in his tub, pickled in brine). They all liked it so much they scratched Pete's dark and scary Mariner crypt for the silly one they have now. In Pete's version, the Mariner drowned at sea.

So now we know exactly who is to blame for introducing a blatant internal contradiction into the show. The painting says, "This guy drowned at sea." The Tubsoleum says, "He drowned on land, in his tub." The decoration of the Tubsoleum says, "This is the same guy that you see in the painting."

Michael Sprout cooked up that mess, but the rest of the team shares the blame for not noticing the problem and calling him on it.

[HMF]

Michael Sprout

For those who don't want to wade through the whole video or missed it when they did, this is the name of the Imagineer who wrote the impossible epitaph for the Tubsoleum (drowned in his tub, pickled in brine). They all liked it so much they scratched Pete's dark and scary Mariner crypt for the silly one they have now. In Pete's version, the Mariner drowned at sea.

So now we know exactly who is to blame for introducing a blatant internal contradiction into the show. The painting says, "This guy drowned at sea." The Tubsoleum says, "He drowned on land, in his tub." The decoration of the Tubsoleum says, "This is the same guy that you see in the painting."

Michael Sprout cooked up that mess, but the rest of the team shares the blame for not noticing the problem and calling him on it.

He is also responsible for the fact that every other word in POTC is now Captain Jack Sparrow. It also seems that we might have been demonizing the wrong person, While Carsillo might have had some pretty bad ideas, Goodman had the authority to say yes or no to his (and Sprout's) ideas. So I feel he should get more blame than Carsillo on this project.

[TheHatboxGhost]

They also seem happy to leave the false impression that they are trading in cutting-edge 1969 tech for cutting-edge 2011 tech. Bullcrap. The effects were emphatically old tech at the time they were built, which means the new team is not simply updating but genuinely changing the recipe behind the ride's illusioneering.

It astounds me that none of them seem to see this. I am a layman with no credentials and these are trained professionals who genuinely love their craft and have been apprenticed in some cases by Disney Imagineering legends, and yet I am bold to point my finger at them and say, "No! You do not understand this attraction. You do not."

The education system of the last several decades is not what it used to be. I see who's getting hired and promoted now. They're neither deep thinkers nor visionaries. And if they can form a coherent thought, they can't write it and spell it correctly. And everyone is specialized, pigeonholed into departments within companies where the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. Gone are the days of being well-rounded, unless you're talking about physical obesity -- which is further evidence of a lack of discipline and wisdom.