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  1. #5116

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Hmm. That's what I thought. I guess it's just a video artifact.

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Not directly related to the HM by any means, but I'm working on a Claude Coats post and thought a GIF like this would be fun. For all you Peter Pan fans:

    Last edited by HBG2; 11-14-2011 at 08:11 PM. Reason: better gif
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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    We got full video of the Disneyland Kinect Haunted Mansion level
    M-I-C-K-E-Y P-R-I-M-E

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by FigmentJedi View Post
    We got full video of the Disneyland Kinect Haunted Mansion level
    I thought he was going to have to spend half the level queuing up!

    Is that Corey Burton as the ghost Host? It doesn't sound QUITE like either him or Paul Frees to me. It sounds a bit like Frank Welker. Anyway, it was great to hear his voice bounce from speaker to speaker like in the strtch room.

    LOVED Madame Leota's Medusa hair.

  5. #5120

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    I think they got the voices pretty darn close to the originals.
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  6. #5121

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    A little off topic, but definitely of interest to ghost fans/those interested in archetypal ghost stories. This spread was published in "All About Ghosts", a kid-aimed book, in 1977. Interesting to see how many elements ring true to the Mansion/not-realized concepts for the ride....the general categories of "things ghosts do" in popular imagination seem to be rather firmly locked in if this is any indication.



    More about the book and further illustrations can be found here.

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    That thing is cool. Thanks for linking.
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  8. #5123

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    I have a thought to present to the thread for discussion with a purposeful glance at our "seniors."

    Phantom Manor, with all its unique neatness, is the progenitor or perhaps the harbinger of recent HM projects, namely PLQ and the new HHG mirror effects.

    For clarity's sake, I'm specifically referring to the capacity of the current imagineers to comprehend or at least reproduce the intent of the originals.

    Looking forward to hearing your thoughts, pro, con or otherwise.

    PS: This is not intended to be a dig at our current imagineers. For better or worse, they do what they're told. Or they're off to checking out the Glendale Help-Wanted ads. The dreamers no longer hold the whip.
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  9. #5124

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by RobotWolf View Post
    I have a thought to present to the thread for discussion with a purposeful glance at our "seniors."

    Phantom Manor, with all its unique neatness, is the progenitor or perhaps the harbinger of recent HM projects, namely PLQ and the new HHG mirror effects.

    For clarity's sake, I'm specifically referring to the capacity of the current imagineers to comprehend or at least reproduce the intent of the originals.

    Looking forward to hearing your thoughts, pro, con or otherwise.

    PS: This is not intended to be a dig at our current imagineers. For better or worse, they do what they're told. Or they're off to checking out the Glendale Help-Wanted ads. The dreamers no longer hold the whip.
    Provocative idea. I give it a yes and no.

    PM shows WDI's willingness to break away from the established tradition and step out on their own. And it was a bold step; it's well-known that Marc Davis and Ken Anderson hated PM. There's something right about that, though. If you're building a new ride (and not tampering with an old one), innovation rather than slavish devotion to the recipe laid down by your predecessors (geniuses though they be) is good and necessary. If artists are artists, you don't want to turn them into mindless Xerox machines.

    PM is a step back toward haunted house traditions that were purposely not used in the HM's. There is a coherent story, and it's a tragedy. Not much zany humor in PM. Not super scary either, just macabre and spooky. At least that's the intent.

    PLQ is nothing BUT zany (at least that's the intent). In some ways it's a departure from the HM formula in the opposite direction. PM = sadder, spookier. PLQ = sillier, funnier. The crime of PLQ is that they revamped an existing masterpiece rather than building a new ride with its own rules and audience.

    PM also is content to stay with Yale Gracey's special effects. It isn't noticeably more high-tech than the HM's build decades earlier. They understood and respected that, it seems.

    For all its differences, I'd say PM is far more traditional and closer to the HMs than PLQ + CG HHG's. PM departed backwards, taking up concepts and atmospheres that were already old when the first HM was built. PLQ departs forwards, chasing what they think the next generation will expect and demand, and somehow thinking that this departure can be grafted onto the old model without any disruption in the chemistry.
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  10. #5125

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    Provocative idea. I give it a yes and no.

    PM shows WDI's willingness to break away from the established tradition and step out on their own. And it was a bold step; it's well-known that Marc Davis and Ken Anderson hated PM. There's something right about that, though. If you're building a new ride (and not tampering with an old one), innovation rather than slavish devotion to the recipe laid down by your predecessors (geniuses though they be) is good and necessary. If artists are artists, you don't want to turn them into mindless Xerox machines.

    PM is a step back toward haunted house traditions that were purposely not used in the HM's. There is a coherent story, and it's a tragedy. Not much zany humor in PM. Not super scary either, just macabre and spooky. At least that's the intent.

    PLQ is nothing BUT zany (at least that's the intent). In some ways it's a departure from the HM formula in the opposite direction. PM = sadder, spookier. PLQ = sillier, funnier. The crime of PLQ is that they revamped an existing masterpiece rather than building a new ride with its own rules and audience.

    PM also is content to stay with Yale Gracey's special effects. It isn't noticeably more high-tech than the HM's build decades earlier. They understood and respected that, it seems.

    For all its differences, I'd say PM is far more traditional and closer to the HMs than PLQ + CG HHG's. PM departed backwards, taking up concepts and atmospheres that were already old when the first HM was built. PLQ departs forwards, chasing what they think the next generation will expect and demand, and somehow thinking that this departure can be grafted onto the old model without any disruption in the chemistry.
    Interesting perspective, Dan. You've effectively laid out the pros and cons regarding PM and the WDW HM abominations.

    But, with respect, that was not the spirit of my proposition, however poorly expressed.

    I don't think that any Mansionista would argue that PLQ et all would compare to the cinematic pathos of the PM. What I was attempting to point out was the yield; the difference between tradition and expressive innovation.

    I understand that PM is in Frontierland and appropriate differences must occur. But isn't a sequential story the very antithesis of the Mansion?

    Even at the climax of the PM where the Phantom is pointing to your potential grave and Melanie's skeletal form shows the way out, where is the groom? From a storyline point of view, wouldn't if have been more interesting if the groom's spirit was shown thwarting the Phantom in some manner, thus saving the observer from certain doom?

    I realize I'm indulging in pointless reverse-imagineering here. But, I guess, my point is that PM shows the initial departure from the traditional HM mythos. TDL "xeroxed" HM to great success and continues to be a very popular attraction there despite their cultural differences regarding ghosts, the afterlife, etc.

    I suppose if I were on a psychiatrist's couch, said skilled profession would conclude that I am just angry with regard to the recent changes to my beloved WDW HM. But regardless, I believe I present a valid point. While the PM may be somewhat successful in its own way, (Have you seen the participants in the ballroom? Who are they? Why do we care? You say that they make no significant advances in technology. I counter that they go backwards. This is no retirement home for ancient ghosts. It's a snapshot of a sad story. A story, IMHO, which evokes no sympathy from me for Melanie.) it simply shows that the new blood wanted to show off without any of the finesse or, indeed, the very point of the original.

    To reiterate, I, in no way, am trying to compare the aesthetic value of PM vs WDW HM failures. I am merely pointing out that is the initial departure.

    PS: For what it's worth, as I've stated previously in the thread, the one brilliant feature in the PM is the ballroom organist occasionally glancing up at the guests. Without the GH, Melanie and the <Yosemite Sam-style curse word> Phantom. He is the one of the few ghosts who actually acknowledge your presence.
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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Good points.

    If we're REALLY going to get down on that psychiatrist's couch, I'll break out my old theory that the Phantom Manor is a girl, while the Haunted Mansion is a boy.

    PM is a break from the HM tradition in that it has a definite story, but I still say it is its own thing, to be measured by its own rules. They understood very well that they were consciously departing from the HM formula, and I don't think they would ever have revamped an existing HM to get their PM.

    The PLQ gang, on the other hand, does NOT think they are departing from HM tradition in any way. They are utterly clueless. They have said that what they want to do is stuff the HM with lots of disconnected stories. They think (or pretend to think) that by doing so they are honoring the Imagineers' intention of "not having a story," which they interpret incorrectly as, "not having just one story," rather than correctly as, "not having any story at all, just a loose premise." (As I never tire of repeating: It's supposed to be YOU going through a haunted house; a series of experiences; there's no "story" beyond that.)

    Adding the Connie saga six years ago was the first mistake. Not altogether fatal in itself, but it paved the way for what we're seeing. Now they've added the Dread family saga. Do you think that's the end of it? Not hardly. Every time the thing starts getting "stale" (in their eyes), they'll "freshen it up" by adding yet another story. The sea captain is back; who knows if they'll be able to resist "fleshing" that one out at some point. All the while they will be congratulating themselves for their faithfulness to tradition ("tradition" = anything they find in the original Imagineers' waste baskets).

    Because they see themselves as carrying on the HM tradition faithfully, I don't think they looked to a universally-recognized, conscious departure from that tradition for ideas. Also, the current WDI bunch are driven by a desire to increase the ride's popularity by adding things they think future audiences will want. If the PM was tremendously more popular than the older HMs, then yeah, maybe they'd be looking at it for ideas. But I don't think it is.
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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by RobotWolf View Post

    To reiterate, I, in no way, am trying to compare the aesthetic value of PM vs WDW HM failures. I am merely pointing out that is the initial departure.
    So, I think what you're saying is, PM and PLQ are alike in that they're examples of modern Imagineers building something that has elements of the HM but is really a different beast altogether.

    ---------- Post added 11-16-2011 at 09:53 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post

    Adding the Connie saga six years ago was the first mistake. Not altogether fatal in itself, but it paved the way for what we're seeing. Now they've added the Dread family saga. Do you think that's the end of it? Not hardly. Every time the thing starts getting "stale" (in their eyes), they'll "freshen it up" by adding yet another story. The sea captain is back; who knows if they'll be able to resist "fleshing" that one out at some point.
    Exactly! I sincerely doubt the Mansion would have inspired such fandom over 40 years if everything had been spelled out for the guests. Leaving details to the imagination - well, it captures people's imaginations!

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by RegionsBeyond View Post
    A little off topic, but definitely of interest to ghost fans/those interested in archetypal ghost stories. This spread was published in "All About Ghosts", a kid-aimed book, in 1977. Interesting to see how many elements ring true to the Mansion/not-realized concepts for the ride....the general categories of "things ghosts do" in popular imagination seem to be rather firmly locked in if this is any indication.



    More about the book and further illustrations can be found here.
    To return to this interesting post for a moment. Since this booklet came out in 1977, it's impossible to rule out the influence of the HM when the authors of this "ghost guide" drew up their compendium of common ghostly phenomenon, even if you strongly suspect independence. But the "not-realized" concepts Regions refers to is different. Concept art for the HM was not in circulation in 1977, so correlations between the booklet and that artwork are indeed independent testimony to the presence of something in common lore.

    I'm pretty sure this is the one Regions has in mind:



    Compare that with two pieces of Marc Davis concept art:





    I like it because I have never pegged this effect as "traditional." Apparently it is. It would be fun to find out where you find this in books or movies or wherever else ghost lore is found.
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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    OK all you HM Fans I just heard backstage from some leads that the HATBOX GHOST is signing a lease and will be moving into the Attic February 2012. I dunno if its true or not but I can see it since we have Cars Land Opening in 2012 as well, this would be a way to keep crowd control leveled and to give HM a boost in the slow season. I again dont know if its true but I have never heard the HM leads talk about this before until NOW.

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    That one did stand out indeed, but the other notable one (which got a gag in the HM, but not a full scene), was the bricked up remains inside a wall/fireplace. As most here will know, Yale and the team mocked that effect up, with the sea captain and the sudden reappearance of his murdered wife, from where he had hidden the remains.

    I also hadn't heard of the specific occult symbolism of the clock striking thirteen before, so who knows where that legend came from (foretelling the death of a family member, just like the Irish banshee legends).

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