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  1. #6376

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    Nice to see you over here, LD. Ezra had hair by 1990 at the latest, and I assume that the mirror figs got hair to match at the same time. Later in the 90's he got a lot more hair. That's all I know.
    Thanks. And thanks for the info, just something I'd been wondering for a while. Of course I'm not sure about the WDW Ezra too, though his mirror version didn't have hair until they CG'd them. Absolutely love the ghosty-go-round Ezra at DLR, he's one of my favourite versions.

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    A little treat this morning: This photo is new to me, a 1969 shot of the original Phineas Pock stone that stood in the original queue graveyard.

    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

    The conversation continues at Long-Forgotten, the blog.

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    I was going through video odds and ends I shot at Disneyland this past March, when came across this largely unremarkable clip from the HM 'limbo' loading area: ridiculously dark, too noisy to enjoy the music ambiance track, but one thing stood out to me.

    At some point (the past year I believe), HBG2 shared a audio recording from early after the Mansion opened in Anaheim which seemed to feature variations of the CoD/Attic shrieks and moans in the loading area.

    The audio bit pertaining to this happens around :10 in the video, and sounds recorded to me and less like a guest goofing off (you can clearly hear some teenage girl shouting words prior to that point) and is similar to the CoD sound effects aurally at least to me.



    Have they been playing these 'live' at the Mansion prior to HMH of 2012 and I just didn't notice at the time? I don't recall hearing the sound effect when I visited in person last in August. Or is it just a coincidental instance of a guest 'adding' to the soundscape?

  4. #6379

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    Here's another thought. Pre-opening, they make the molds and do a bunch of heads with different materials, experimenting. They're also experimenting with painting styles, what kind of face they want. They finally settle on the dura flex banshee skulls we're familiar with. Meanwhile, there's a box of soon-to-be-forgotten experimental prototypes sitting around in a corner at MAPO, gathering dust. Finally, someone gives the unwanted box to an outside friend.
    This seems to me by far the most likely scenario. It explains the variety of appearances and of the mounting technology, as well as a more probable path for them to end up in the hands of whoever's selling them now.


    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    I have no dates on those schematics. Notice that the bolts are holding down a plate that actually covers a hole going all the way through the head. The air blast pushes up that plate in this design. So I would expect a hole in the head there if this were the design.
    That's a fair point regarding the auction heads. I still think that the locations are suggestive, but it is clear that the auction heads weren't used with the hardware shown in the second schematic.


    On the "what's actually being used" front, I looked closely at this YouTube video from 2009 by OrbitalPunk, as linked from an earlier iteration of this thread:
    Haunted Mansion Holiday - YouTube

    I pulled these screen shots from it:
    Name:  Blasty2009-1.png
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    And as a .gif, for fun and added clarity:
    Name:  OlBlasty2009.gif
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    It's a little hard to see, but it looks like the blast-up that's currently (as of 2009) present is closest to the second schematic - it has the large hanging cup, though with only the bottom wire guide plate visible here (I don't know whether the middle plate just escaped into the pixels or it isn't there at all), and it has the top plate, as visible against the bicycling ghosts in this shot:
    Name:  Blasty2009-4_edit.png
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    It's interesting - GRD's head seems to correspond reasonably well with the first schematic, while the one currently in use looks to correspond reasonably well with the second schematic. That would tend to imply that the second schematic is a newer iteration of the design than the first, but without more information there's no knowing for sure.

    Speaking of GRD's head, what you said about the materials all being Duraflex reminded me of something, and now I remember - GRD once referred to the blast-up heads as foam:
    Quote Originally Posted by GRD999 View Post
    Plus, you have to realize that, for the graveyard, the wires that it flies up on are connected to the ceiling of the show building. And also, they are wound tight like a piano would be. It gets kinda dangerous if you have a 3 lb foam head jumping up and down on it all day.
    Maybe GRD's head was a prototype too? Where does it say that they were all Duraflex?


    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    Also, the back of that blue head looks like it has a handle or something that seems similar to the one on the back of Yale Gracey's mysterious golden skull.
    I was wondering about that weird lump. The whole back of the blue head looks like it either had some serious mold problems or it was specially shaped to fit onto some unknown piece of hardware. I wish there was a better copy available of that Disneyland special.

  5. #6380

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by RegionsBeyond View Post
    I was going through video odds and ends I shot at Disneyland this past March, when came across this largely unremarkable clip from the HM 'limbo' loading area: ridiculously dark, too noisy to enjoy the music ambiance track, but one thing stood out to me.

    At some point (the past year I believe), HBG2 shared a audio recording from early after the Mansion opened in Anaheim which seemed to feature variations of the CoD/Attic shrieks and moans in the loading area.

    The audio bit pertaining to this happens around :10 in the video, and sounds recorded to me and less like a guest goofing off (you can clearly hear some teenage girl shouting words prior to that point) and is similar to the CoD sound effects aurally at least to me.



    Have they been playing these 'live' at the Mansion prior to HMH of 2012 and I just didn't notice at the time? I don't recall hearing the sound effect when I visited in person last in August. Or is it just a coincidental instance of a guest 'adding' to the soundscape?
    I believe it's just a guest shrieking. They seem to be well away from the camera, probably on the way up the staircase.

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    I was thinking about the two blast-up schematics, and I have a theory. I suspect that they don't just represent two different design iterations - they're actually designed for two entirely different head materials.

    The first schematic was, I think, meant for solid foam heads:
    Name:  schematic.jpg
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    Notice two relevant facts: the cup to receive the air jet, outlined in dotted lines, is not connected to any part of the mounting hardware, and the wire guides are external to the head. This is consistent with a head made of solid foam; the cup could simply be glued into a cavity in the foam, or possibly a molded or cut cavity could be used without any external cup at all, and the structure of the head itself would serve to distribute the force. Running the wires though the head would be impractical, because very precise holes would have to be drilled or molded through several inches of foam, and friction would likely be high unless metal guides were inserted into the holes. However, in order to maintain alignment, the guides would still have to be attached to an external frame at at least two points, which would become quite difficult to do discreetly if they were embedded in foam.

    Now compare with the second schematic, intended instead, I believe, for hollow Duraflex heads:
    Name:  schematic2.jpg
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    Note how the cup assembly runs through the entire head, supported by the pipe shown below the head and in dotted lines within it, and how the wires also run through the head, behind the cheekbones. As the head is hollow, we can't rely on its internal structure to support the cup any more, so we have to rigidly attach the cup to the wire guides. Additionally, because the outer surface of the head is now a relatively thin sheet, running the wires through the head becomes practical, since all we have to do is drill or mold four simple holes wide enough for the wires to pass through with room to spare.

    Now, this is all speculative at the moment, since we don't know very much about the development history of the prop, but there are a few things that would serve as evidence one way or another:

    1. Is GRD's head, which seems to match the first schematic, made of solid foam?
    2. Is the head currently in use at the Disneyland HM, largely matching the second schematic, made of hollow Duraflex?
    3. Is there any way to find the full schematics of either or both of the images above? The parts list might note the materials used for their respective part number 1's.

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright



    This one is actually from a 1969 maintenance manual, so it must be what was put into the original HM. Here are pix of all three DL blasties. The top is 1990 from the Cheers episode and is the second attic blasty (incidentally, so is the Daveland closeup shot). Bottom left is the first, from about 2005. The graveyard one is 2007.



    As you can see, all three seem to have the "carriage" carrying the head. It looks like they were able to dispense with the big pipe piece at the bottom and replaced it with a pencil-like rod that no doubt guided the head to a snug fit on top of the air jet.

    I don't know how hi-rez your pic of GRD's head is, so here.



    It says "pop up ghosts 1 pc dura flex" on the cards next to the photos of the molds.
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

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  8. #6383

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Hey I just had a thought about that portrait art that was posted a while ago as a teaser for something. A few folks thought it might have something to do with Frontierland. Was it for DLR or WDW? They're planning on making a TV show from Thunder Mountain apparently. Dunno if it could have some connection if they're planning on updating Frontierland.

    Also, talking about that... I do wonder if Thunder Mesa will come into this show at all? Guess they'll probably make up something new but as DLRP's Thunder Mountain is the only one with a large story I was just wondering... and if that's the case Phantom Manor could get involved. Complete speculation and probably isn't right but I'd thought I'd mention it.

    I would like to know if the Manor (at least the house) will come into Del Toro's new movie at all, after all its said there will be more than one Mansion, right? Something like that. If there's a number of Mansion's I'd expect the main one would be DLR's, but if others are featured then WDW's and DLRP's facades too.

    Yes I'm rambling. Hmmm, okay here's a purely Mansion related question; is the DLR Mansion opening again tomorrow? Is there usually any changes after the HMH overlay?

  9. #6384

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post


    This one is actually from a 1969 maintenance manual, so it must be what was put into the original HM. Here are pix of all three DL blasties. The top is 1990 from the Cheers episode and is the second attic blasty (incidentally, so is the Daveland closeup shot). Bottom left is the first, from about 2005. The graveyard one is 2007.



    As you can see, all three seem to have the "carriage" carrying the head. It looks like they were able to dispense with the big pipe piece at the bottom and replaced it with a pencil-like rod that no doubt guided the head to a snug fit on top of the air jet.
    All of those images actually look consistent with the second schematic. You can clearly see the flat top plate in the 2007 graveyard picture, and you can make out the pipe and half the bottom plate as well poking out from behind the ribbon on the tomb. I almost think I can see the middle plate too. It's also clear in both the two later images that the wire position is consistent with the second schematic, not the first or with GRD's head. I actually don't think that there was ever a thin rod; it looks like one in the 2005 attic picture, but I think that's just a trick of the reflection off of the tube. It doesn't make any engineering sense to use a rod like that.


    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    I don't know how hi-rez your pic of GRD's head is, so here.

    Thanks for the higher-rez image - the flaking pattern on the paint around the bottom of the mouth seems consistent with paint on flexing foam, if my experience with Nerf footballs is anything to go by. Though Duraflex is somewhat flexible too, so it's hard to say. The general surface texture does look foam-like though, and I don't think I'm just saying that because it supports my theory .


    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    It says "pop up ghosts 1 pc dura flex" on the cards next to the photos of the molds.
    Interesting. What is the "1 pc" referring to? The mold, or the intended product?

  10. #6385

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Hey I just had a thought about that portrait art that was posted a while ago as a teaser for something. A few folks thought it might have something to do with Frontierland. Was it for DLR or WDW? They're planning on making a TV show from Thunder Mountain apparently. Dunno if it could have some connection if they're planning on updating Frontierland.

    [.......]

    Yes I'm rambling. Hmmm, okay here's a purely Mansion related question; is the DLR Mansion opening again tomorrow? Is there usually any changes after the HMH overlay?
    As for the Baxter painting, it is confirmed as being for Florida and a next-gen/'interactive' queue as the Mansion out there got.

    From the Disney Parks Blog release: "The fellow’s name is Barnabas T. Bullion, and he’s the gold magnate who rules the Big Thunder Mining Company with a golden fist. Imagineers have already begun working overnight in the park on the attraction’s new interactive queue, where you’ll be able to see this portrait.

    According to the enhanced backstory: 'Barnabas T. Bullion is the founder and president of the Big Thunder Mining Company. The longtime mining magnate comes from a powerful East Coast family and considers gold to be his very birthright by virtue of his oddly appropriate name; in fact, he considers the ultimate gold strike to be his destiny. And that is why he is having so much trouble with Big Thunder Mountain. According to superstitious locals, Big Thunder Mountain is very protective of the gold it holds within, and the unfortunate soul who attempts to mine its riches is destined to fail. And so far that prophecy is coming to pass. The mine has been plagued by mysterious forces and natural disasters ever since. And yet the Big Thunder Mining Co. is still in operation. In fact, Bullion is discovering new veins of gold and digging new shafts every day, offering a closer look at the Big Thunder mining operation than ever before. But a word to the wise for anyone attempting to visit the mountain: watch out for runaway trains.' "

    This could well have to do with the new TV show, if they get Donald Sutherland involved perhaps to play the character (the painting bears more than a passing resemblance to him, besides being a dead-ringer for Tony Baxter. Maybe painted ambiguously to match both?)

    But the Ravenswood/PM elements probably not a part of it if they want to go the 'straight' Western route and not drag in stuff about ghosts.

    Haunted Mansion will be reopening tomorrow yes at Disneyland. I will be in park Tuesday night and keen to go on it, so will report back then (others may well beat me to it). I am not expecting anything 'new' of a dramatic sort, but it takes them a few weeks usually to get all the lighting and projections and audio dialed in, and who knows, those two pesky CoD lines may get switched on and off again since they reset everything.

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by RegionsBeyond View Post
    As for the Baxter painting, it is confirmed as being for Florida and a next-gen/'interactive' queue as the Mansion out there got.

    From the Disney Parks Blog release: "The fellow’s name is Barnabas T. Bullion, and he’s the gold magnate who rules the Big Thunder Mining Company with a golden fist. Imagineers have already begun working overnight in the park on the attraction’s new interactive queue, where you’ll be able to see this portrait.

    According to the enhanced backstory: 'Barnabas T. Bullion is the founder and president of the Big Thunder Mining Company. The longtime mining magnate comes from a powerful East Coast family and considers gold to be his very birthright by virtue of his oddly appropriate name; in fact, he considers the ultimate gold strike to be his destiny. And that is why he is having so much trouble with Big Thunder Mountain. According to superstitious locals, Big Thunder Mountain is very protective of the gold it holds within, and the unfortunate soul who attempts to mine its riches is destined to fail. And so far that prophecy is coming to pass. The mine has been plagued by mysterious forces and natural disasters ever since. And yet the Big Thunder Mining Co. is still in operation. In fact, Bullion is discovering new veins of gold and digging new shafts every day, offering a closer look at the Big Thunder mining operation than ever before. But a word to the wise for anyone attempting to visit the mountain: watch out for runaway trains.' "

    This could well have to do with the new TV show, if they get Donald Sutherland involved perhaps to play the character (the painting bears more than a passing resemblance to him, besides being a dead-ringer for Tony Baxter. Maybe painted ambiguously to match both?)

    But the Ravenswood/PM elements probably not a part of it if they want to go the 'straight' Western route and not drag in stuff about ghosts.

    Haunted Mansion will be reopening tomorrow yes at Disneyland. I will be in park Tuesday night and keen to go on it, so will report back then (others may well beat me to it). I am not expecting anything 'new' of a dramatic sort, but it takes them a few weeks usually to get all the lighting and projections and audio dialed in, and who knows, those two pesky CoD lines may get switched on and off again since they reset everything.
    Ah thanks for the information. An interactive queue for Thunder Mountain eh? Ummm... I just hope it doesn't mess up the themeing too much. Then again I can't quite remember the queue for WDW's Mountain, been quite a while since I was there. The DLRP queue is really detailed.

    And about the Mansion: thank you for the confirmation. I had heard sometimes there are small changes after the overlay.

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Ah thanks for the information. An interactive queue for Thunder Mountain eh? Ummm... I just hope it doesn't mess up the themeing too much. Then again I can't quite remember the queue for WDW's Mountain, been quite a while since I was there. The DLRP queue is really detailed.

    And about the Mansion: thank you for the confirmation. I had heard sometimes there are small changes after the overlay.
    I am hoping BTM's interactive queue will be more tasteful than PLQ but I am not optimistic due to the reason that both exist. (It relates to WDW's Next Gen/Big Brother project.)

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HMF View Post
    I am hoping BTM's interactive queue will be more tasteful than PLQ but I am not optimistic due to the reason that both exist. (It relates to WDW's Next Gen/Big Brother project.)
    I was wondering how they can make a queue for Thunder Mountain interactive... I just hope its done well.

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    I was wondering how they can make a queue for Thunder Mountain interactive... I just hope its done well.
    Rumor is it will have a lot to do with Faux explosives as a crate bearing the name "Western River Explosives" has appeared.
    Last edited by HMF; 01-17-2013 at 08:36 PM.

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Well the Haunted Mansion has reopened, apparently there's no major changes. Guess that means the usual ghosty-go-round hasn't been replaced by the CG one, as some people were wondering if it might be.

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