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  1. #6436

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    I was trolling through Disney's patents earlier, and I came across an item that I thought might be interesting to those hoping for a return of the Hatbox Ghost. I've seen some discussion on here of how WDI might update the technology in order to make the effect work, since the original used a spotlight turning on and off, but wasn't convincing. This line from US 7,236,301 B2 seemed to strike a chord:

    BACKGROUND
    Special effects designers may be required to make an object appear hidden (disappear) or visible (appear) to an observer on cue. For example, an amusement park having a haunted mansion may desire to make an object, such as a ghost, mysteriously appear and as just as mysteriously disappear to an observer. One conventional approach involves a projection system having an electromechanical means for directing light at and redirecting light from an object. However, this approach may not to an observer make an object disappear or reappear because such electromechanical means requires a finite time for turning on and turning off a light source illuminating the object. Furthermore, this approach may not smoothly nor in a controllable manner transition from hidden to visible an object to an observer on cue
    The patent discloses a system using a polarized sheet behind a scrim and a spotlight with a activatable polarizing filter, such that you can't see through the scrim normally, but when the filter rotates into place, suddenly the light can get through to illuminate the object within...which might be a skull:

    In another aspect, textured surface 30 may be a theatrical scrim. For example, the theatrical scrim is a material having a wide weave with part of the material being at least partially transparent to light. In this aspect, as source polarizer 40 is rotated while directed at the theatrical scrim, the hidden object transitions from a nearly invisible state to, for example, a nearly full visible state.

    In yet another aspect, the surface of the theatrical scrim may contain a printed image. In one example, the printed image is a face. In this example, object 10 is a skull. By illuminating the printed image with light source 50 using source polarizer 40 parallel to transmissive axis 25 of polarized window 20, the skull is visible to an observer. Alternatively, changing the polarization of source polarizer 40 parallel to reflective axis 35 of the polarized window 20, the skull is invisible to an observer. In the invisible state, the observer sees the printed image of the face. In the visible state, the observer sees a composite image of the printed face and the skull.
    The first application on this patent was dated 2003 - I don't know how that corresponds with the internal Hatbox timeline, so it may be unrelated, but I thought it was definitely interesting one way or another. There's a bunch of other cool ideas in there too, like having walls that look normal until you shine a special flashlight on them, and suddenly you can see something behind them.

  2. #6437

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by CDW View Post
    I was trolling through Disney's patents earlier, and I came across an item that I thought might be interesting to those hoping for a return of the Hatbox Ghost. I've seen some discussion on here of how WDI might update the technology in order to make the effect work, since the original used a spotlight turning on and off, but wasn't convincing. This line from US 7,236,301 B2 seemed to strike a chord:



    The patent discloses a system using a polarized sheet behind a scrim and a spotlight with a activatable polarizing filter, such that you can't see through the scrim normally, but when the filter rotates into place, suddenly the light can get through to illuminate the object within...which might be a skull:



    The first application on this patent was dated 2003 - I don't know how that corresponds with the internal Hatbox timeline, so it may be unrelated, but I thought it was definitely interesting one way or another. There's a bunch of other cool ideas in there too, like having walls that look normal until you shine a special flashlight on them, and suddenly you can see something behind them.
    I am quite sad to relate the news that the man who has fought to bring HBG back, One Tony Baxter will be retiring tomorrow.

  3. #6438

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    CDW, that's very interesting stuff, but I don't think that's how they planned to do HBG 2.0. I know they had the problems licked, and it was ready to go. It came thisclose to becoming a reality.

    It's sad about Tony. What he should do is take a page from Eddie Sotto and start his own outfit. Or join Eddie's. I doubt that he's out of creative gas.

    Hey, I've got an assignment for you DL folks. IS THE LEMONADE SET THERE? I'm going to be referring to it and things like it in an upcoming post.
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

    The conversation continues at Long-Forgotten, the blog.

  4. #6439

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    I think I may have found something, as we all know in the WDW Attic a cluster of hatboxes now mark HBG's would-be spot

    Through pre-07 photographic research we found out that the red hatbox pictured actually had previously resided next to the Bride likely since 1971. Well, it appears tha the Black Hatbox may have been there prior to 07 as well judging by this shot near the center.

    Incidentally the hatrack pre-dates being re-purposed for the hats of Connies husbands.
    Here it is in it's original location on the left.
    Last edited by HMF; 02-01-2013 at 04:36 PM.

  5. #6440

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    With every pic of the attic scene posted I seem to spot something I didn't know was there. That place is really full of random things.

    Its sad that Tony is retiring. I'm sure the Hatbox Ghost will return to the Mansion at some point though, when the movie is released.

  6. #6441

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    CDW, that's very interesting stuff, but I don't think that's how they planned to do HBG 2.0. I know they had the problems licked, and it was ready to go. It came thisclose to becoming a reality.
    Oh well, so much for my scoop. I'm glad to hear they did find some way to fix the problem, frustrating as it is that they didn't actually get to install it.

    As to the patent, I may try playing around with the idea myself at some point - I think I can see a way to implement the concept without infringing any of their claims .

  7. #6442

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    With every pic of the attic scene posted I seem to spot something I didn't know was there. That place is really full of random things.
    .
    I am always discovering something new in there.
    For instance the skis in the Reginald tableau

    prior to 07 used to be strapped to the last beam near where Connie is now.

  8. #6443

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    arnt they talking about the portrait's, and how the grooms head disappears and appears..

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by PozEmerald View Post
    arnt they talking about the portrait's, and how the grooms head disappears and appears..
    No, different method. Relatively simple lighting trick by comparison.

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by PozEmerald View Post
    arnt they talking about the portrait's, and how the grooms head disappears and appears..
    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Ghost View Post
    No, different method. Relatively simple lighting trick by comparison.
    Yeah, everything I've heard is that they use a coordinated set of forward and backward lighting on two layers of image; HBG2 laid it out here, with an addendum here. It's simpler in some ways, in that it uses normal light sources, not polarized ones, but I'd guess it's probably harder to get right, because you have to synchronize the switchover between the lights pretty carefully to make the transition seamless. From the patent, they probably could do the portraits using the polarized light system; you would put the polarizer screen over the head portion of the painting and cover it with a textured scrim that looks like the background. As long as the polarized light it hitting it, you can see the unfortunate husband's head; rotate the polarizer on the light out of alignment, and suddenly the just the painted scrim is visible. However, it would be tricky to get the color and brightness of the head to match the body, so I think the way they did it probably makes for the better effect. Plus, as HBG noted, using the front-and-back lighting method, flash pictures always show a husband with his head, and after all, shouldn't flash photography scare away the spooks?

  11. #6446

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Ah I hadn't noticed those skis before! Then again I guess I haven't looked through that many of the attic scene pics... very interesting scene, I do want the blast-ups/pop-ups to return though.

  12. #6447

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    I just came back from Disneyland earlier today. What happened to the disneyland's HM library?! I know in the ballroom in the top left corner there was a library but today when I went through the ride it was covered? Also since when did California's HM get the hatchet man's portrait?! I noticed it today in the corridor of doors area. I was under the impression that it was only in Disneyworld's had the portrait.

  13. #6448

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydisneygeek View Post
    I just came back from Disneyland earlier today. What happened to the disneyland's HM library?! I know in the ballroom in the top left corner there was a library but today when I went through the ride it was covered? Also since when did California's HM get the hatchet man's portrait?! I noticed it today in the corridor of doors area. I was under the impression that it was only in Disneyworld's had the portrait.
    I believe they reveal the library for only Haunted Mansion Holiday to show the Christmas tree of floating books.

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydisneygeek View Post
    Also since when did California's HM get the hatchet man's portrait?! I noticed it today in the corridor of doors area. I was under the impression that it was only in Disneyworld's had the portrait.
    Since 1969.

  15. #6450

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by frollofan View Post
    I believe they reveal the library for only Haunted Mansion Holiday to show the Christmas tree of floating books.
    Yes. There is no library to speak of in the regular Mansion at Anaheim.

    Lemonade set, people. Is the lemonade set there? This is it in 2009:

    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

    The conversation continues at Long-Forgotten, the blog.

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