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  1. #6991

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Speaking of on again, off again effects...

    My brother was at DL last week and tells me the Traveling Light wasn't in operation. Anyone seen it lately?
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

    The conversation continues at Long-Forgotten, the blog.

  2. #6992

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by FoxxFur View Post
    I actually confronted him about the hands back in 2007. This is exactly how the conversation went:

    Me: "You really ought to put the hands back. Claude Coats put those there for a reason."
    Alex: "In the story of the Haunted Mansion, you aren't supposed to see any ghosts until the seance room."
    Me: "What about the hands on the coffin? Are you going to remove those too?"
    Alex: *walks away*

    Imagineering, everybody.
    Quote Originally Posted by WildeNight View Post
    I kind of agree with him on the removal of the monster hands in the corridor of doors. *shrugs*
    I would prefer the hands put back where they were. However, most guests won't notice the difference, let alone know anything about the storyline of ghosts having "trouble getting through" until Madame Leota brings them forth. Without that bit of Ghost Host narration, it's highly unlikely that guests would get that on their own.

  3. #6993

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    I'm surprised no one has mentioned that the entrance to MKs HM is now..............................a Disney Visa Card Stand. The FIRST THING you see at the entrance to MKs HM is now......a CREDIT CARD MARKETING counter. MK.......full of classiness and tradition.

  4. #6994

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by Attic Haunt View Post
    He was probably out to be fixed/refreshed.

    And you are doing fine on the "longhand" messages. If you want a guide to MiceChat shorthand, try this sticky post...

    The Official MiceChat Glossary
    Has anybody done a glossary of abbreviations for the Haunted Mansion threads? Half the time I don't know what you guys are talking about because you abbreviate so much. Could you please direct me to a place I can make heads or tales of what you are saying?

    Thanks
    A Willing Student
    "While there is very little grown-up in a child, there's still a lot of child in every grown up." ~ Walt Disney

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Slowly working my way through HBG2's "Long Forgotten" blog. I've been reading for days and I'm only up to July 2010. It makes me wonder if I'll ever get to 2013! I found all 7 threads of "The Long Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect". They are next on my list.

    It's a daunting task...
    "While there is very little grown-up in a child, there's still a lot of child in every grown up." ~ Walt Disney

  6. #6996

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Keep at it... I just finished not long ago. It is a loooooooong, strange trip, but worth it.

    “That's the way a lot of things happen... You think one person did something
    but he was just the one to put the color on it." – Ken Anderson
    ​I'm blogging here again!

  7. #6997

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Ones that come to mind right away, not sure if there are more -

    HMH - Haunted Mansion Holiday
    HBG - Hatbox Ghost
    CB - Corpse Bride (not sure that's used much, it might have been)
    PM - Phantom Manor
    CoD - Corridor of Doors
    PoTC - Pirates of the Caribbean
    NoS - New Orleans Square.

    Any others you recall...?
    when the spooks have a midnight jamboree....

  8. #6998

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by FoxxFur View Post
    I actually confronted him about the hands back in 2007. This is exactly how the conversation went:

    Me: "You really ought to put the hands back. Claude Coats put those there for a reason."
    Alex: "In the story of the Haunted Mansion, you aren't supposed to see any ghosts until the seance room."
    Me: "What about the hands on the coffin? Are you going to remove those too?"
    Alex: *walks away*
    Reading this and all the other instances of Alex's thematic creative rigidity, You have to wonder how he would have handled PLQ's design. I bet the Park Art Director role was transferred from him to Pete Carsillo. After all PLQ has that ring in it which is based on the one that Alex specifically had removed. Maybe, if Alex was in charge of PLQ it would have turned out far better considering how instistent he is on total Show consistency and now with the green canopy returning and everything you can tell that Carsillo is trying to undo certain creative decisions made by Alex. If nothing else it shows that Alex Caruthers and Pete Carsillo have very different creative ideas about what the Mansion is. Caruthers appears to be approaching it from a consistency standpoint (even to the extent where he is second-guessing the original creators)whereas with PLQ it's obvious that Carsillo was not really interested in making things consistent (also honoring the creators a bit too much with the endless tributes in PLQ). Personally I prefer the Caruthers approach though I think he takes it a bit too far.
    BTW for the new people:
    PLQ=Walt Disney World Haunted Mansion Interactive Queue area
    Last edited by HMF; 06-07-2013 at 07:25 PM.

  9. #6999

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HMF View Post
    Reading this and all the other instances of Alex's thematic creative rigidity, You have to wonder how he would have handled PLQ's design. I bet the Park Art Director role was transferred from him to Pete Carsillo. After all PLQ has that ring in it which is based on the one that Alex specifically had removed. Maybe, if Alex was in charge of PLQ it would have turned out far better considering how instistent he is on total Show consistency and now with the green canopy returning and everything you can tell that Carsillo is trying to undo certain creative decisions made by Alex. If nothing else it shows that Alex Caruthers and Pete Carsillo have very different creative ideas about what the Mansion is. Caruthers appears to be approaching it from a consistency standpoint (even to the extent where he is second-guessing the original creators)whereas with PLQ it's obvious that Carsillo was not really interested in making things consistent (also honoring the creators a bit too much with the endless tributes in PLQ). Personally I prefer the Caruthers approach though I think he takes it a bit too far.
    BTW for the new people:
    PLQ=Walt Disney World Haunted Mansion Interactive Queue area
    Agreed. Between PLQ and Tomorrowland, Magic Kingdom needs dungeon masters that can actually keep the campaign source books in mind when making attractions if they keep touting story so much.

    Of course, Tomorrowland's issues are probably more from the executives asking where the Cheetos and Mountain Dew are
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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by FigmentJedi View Post
    Agreed. Between PLQ and Tomorrowland, Magic Kingdom needs dungeon masters that can actually keep the campaign source books in mind when making attractions if they keep touting story so much.
    That's a really good analogy.

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by RegionsBeyond View Post
    Ones that come to mind right away, not sure if there are more -

    HMH - Haunted Mansion Holiday
    HBG - Hatbox Ghost
    CB - Corpse Bride (not sure that's used much, it might have been)
    PM - Phantom Manor
    CoD - Corridor of Doors
    PoTC - Pirates of the Caribbean
    NoS - New Orleans Square.

    Any others you recall...?
    AA - audio-animatronic figure
    WDI - Walt Disney Imagineering
    WED - the older name for WDI
    NBC - Nightmare Before Christmas (= HMH)
    HHG - hitchhiking ghost(s)
    CM - Castmember (costumed park employee)
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

    The conversation continues at Long-Forgotten, the blog.

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    PLOTSI - Pirate's Lair on Tom Sawyer Island
    IASW - it's a small world

    Many of these aren't specifically HM related, but they appear often enough in our posts.
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

    The conversation continues at Long-Forgotten, the blog.

  13. #7003

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Quote Originally Posted by HMF View Post
    Reading this and all the other instances of Alex's thematic creative rigidity, You have to wonder how he would have handled PLQ's design. I bet the Park Art Director role was transferred from him to Pete Carsillo. After all PLQ has that ring in it which is based on the one that Alex specifically had removed. Maybe, if Alex was in charge of PLQ it would have turned out far better considering how instistent he is on total Show consistency and now with the green canopy returning and everything you can tell that Carsillo is trying to undo certain creative decisions made by Alex. If nothing else it shows that Alex Caruthers and Pete Carsillo have very different creative ideas about what the Mansion is. Caruthers appears to be approaching it from a consistency standpoint (even to the extent where he is second-guessing the original creators)whereas with PLQ it's obvious that Carsillo was not really interested in making things consistent (also honoring the creators a bit too much with the endless tributes in PLQ). Personally I prefer the Caruthers approach though I think he takes it a bit too far.
    No, Pete isn't in charge of MK. I can't remember what that guy's name is, but it isn't Pete.

    I know Carsillo isn't very popular here these days but he doesn't get any credit for the thankless tasks he's given. Whether or not Pete was going to be involved in the queue or not, it was going to happen. All of the queue "enhancements" at WDW are being overseen by a crew of basically cell phone game developers and these guys have no interest or care in "Good Show". Up until a task force at WDI intervened, Mansion was was basically going to be games on screens much like Space Mountain. Sorcerers of the Magic Kingdom was the same way; all of those themed windows were basically forced on the team by a group of Imagineers working overtime in at attempt to prevent the result from being even worse than it ended up. From there Pete had to deal with those interactive project monkeys and their clueless team leaders. He did his best to salvage a dumb project headed by dumb people with dumb ideas.

    For example a lot of Carsillo's original ideas were toned down by the interactive team in this process. He originally had a much creepier experience in mind, but once the trigger was pulled on certain decisions on the interactive side, all he could do is try to work around it. I'm not really an insider, but I am friends with some Imagineers, and the things these people have to deal with is frankly extraordinary. The best situation is a compromise. The worst situation is a catastrophic failure. And remarkably talented people are given the worst material to work with, like Princess Fairytale Hall. And no, for the record, I've never met Pete Carsillo, so I have no personal interest in my defense of him here.

    This is something a lot of fans don't understand: WDI are contractors who don't get to decide what they build. They fill orders placed by WDW or DL for X item, and in this case the item was an interactive queue for Haunted Mansion. They can make suggestions or try to workarounds, and in this case the WDI team was negotiating between competing groups none of whom have anything resembling artistic integrity in mind. This is why there's a lot of hardcore Mansion references in the queue; it's pretty much all that could be done.

    I know that the queue is not popular on this thread, and I don't like it either. I think it's a botched mess that made nobody happy, least of which the Imagineers taking the blame for a thankless task. But it isn't the Worst Thing Ever, either. When you're in there with a bunch of dippy WDW guests who're shouting, pulling on things, drooling etc it's pretty awful, but I've also gone in there all alone after dark and spent some serious time enjoying it. Especially if a light Florida rain comes, with the house looming over you, I'll admit, it's pretty creepy. It's not what I wanted but it doesn't come close to ruining a superb ride for me.

  14. #7004

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    Thank you for your insight and observations on that topic, FoxxFur! I rather loathe the area after having seen it in person, but it doesn't hurt to recall that even designers for things I find dumb aren't literally out there thinking 'what can I design so people will hate it'/etc. Either they truly think it's a good idea for whatever target market they want, or they're trying to make something not as bad - no villains in their own mind, etc. It's just a shame the thing turned out so insipid largely (I like some of the individual tombstones and crypts that don't do anything 'interactive'), no matter the cause.
    when the spooks have a midnight jamboree....

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    Re: The Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Thread 7: Further Realms of Fright

    I've always said that Carsillo meant well, and it's a point well taken that if he and his team had had their way from the beginning to the end, it would have been very different. The biggest problem with PLQ is the self-referentiality. It makes the Mansion talk about the Mansion. I don't know who bears responsibility for that fundamental problem.

    Another point all of us needs to bear in mind is that the WDI Imagineers are pretty much duty-bound to loyally defend the end product without any hesitation or qualification, so even if they should happen to agree with some of the criticism, they dare not so much as whisper it to their cat at three in the morning.
    "My mental facilities are twice what yours are, pea brain!"

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